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Are there any first round prospects you really don't want?

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Sep 12th

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KontradictioN

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Huh, I mean Fields is a pocket passer, not a running first QB.

Anyway, I would say Mac Jones, a tackle outside the top 2 (Slater and Sewell), Barmore, Caleb Farley (I like him as a player but do not want to see another bust due to college injury), Jayson Oweh (all world ability but no production on the field), Jamin Davis (Kiper's binky).
Davis just suddenly rocketed into the first round. I agree that I wouldn’t take him there. 2nd or 3rd? Definitely.
 

Brit patriot

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Davis just suddenly rocketed into the first round. I agree that I wouldn’t take him there. 2nd or 3rd? Definitely.
This is where different attitudes to the draft come in. For me if Bill thinks a) Mills is the man and b) he feels he won't be there later, then I am not one who would stick to a draft round on general principle. Not saying he is or isn't the man, just the principle.
 

KontradictioN

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This is where different attitudes to the draft come in. For me if Bill thinks a) Mills is the man and b) he feels he won't be there later, then I am not one who would stick to a draft round on general principle. Not saying he is or isn't the man, just the principle.
I was talking about Jamin Davis.
 

Brotherblues

Practice Squad Player
The guys with pure first round grades usally have more than the necessary physical tools to succeed. So I don't nitpick if one is slightly faster or whatever.

If the talent is close enough, gimme the guys with:

- Smarts
- Drive
- Durability. No busted up knees by age 21.

I prefer they hold off on any injury risks until rounds 2 and later (Gronk and DK Metcalf come to mind).
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
If Mills goes to us in the 1st round, I'd have convulsions. Only the Bills try to outsmart other teams in picking a 4th round QB early: EJ Manuel, Losman, etc. They've done it multiple times. Even if you have the guy rated very high, you've got to wonder why you're the only one in the league. Unfortunately, we took Mallet in the 3rd because we were sure he was a 1st rounder, and while this is better than taking a 3rd round talent in the first, we didn't need a QB and we should have asked ourselves why did we rate this guy so highly while everyone else wasn't impressed, including his initial college coach.
 

Hyped

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I am scared to death about Fields and his OSU stigma, There are no OSU QBs who have been a success in the NFL. Mostly terrified because the actual "blue chip" players it could cost us.

Cousins, you are really hung up on the OSU QB stigma....just because many out of OSU have flopped doesn't mean that Fields will flop. If anything, OSU is beyond DUE to produce a quality NFL QB.....
 

UGAPatsfan

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Interestingly I think the QB infatuation this year at the top of Rd 1 will lead to at least 1 player falling to 15 who the Pats grade out as a top 10 talent. We have done pretty well historically with those kind of picks. So whatever guy they take (assuming they stay at 15) I’ll likely be ok with.
 

Hyped

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If Mills goes to us in the 1st round, I'd have convulsions. Only the Bills try to outsmart other teams in picking a 4th round QB early: EJ Manuel, Losman, etc. They've done it multiple times. Even if you have the guy rated very high, you've got to wonder why you're the only one in the league. Unfortunately, we took Mallet in the 3rd because we were sure he was a 1st rounder, and while this is better than taking a 3rd round talent in the first, we didn't need a QB and we should have asked ourselves why did we rate this guy so highly while everyone else wasn't impressed, including his initial college coach.

I disagree. If we are THAT HIGH on Mills, we should be taking him ASAFP......same as if we were high on Brady back in 2000....we didn't know it at the time, but we RISKED everything by letting him slide in rounds 2-5 then....
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I disagree. If we are THAT HIGH on Mills, we should be taking him ASAFP......same as if we were high on Brady back in 2000....we didn't know it at the time, but we RISKED everything by letting him slide in rounds 2-5 then....

Why would anyone believe that we know how to evaluate QBs that well? Look at our track record. The guy who evaluated Brady died more than a decade ago. Since then it's been nothing but misery:

2002, Round 4, Pick 117: Rohan Davey, LSU
2003, Round 6, Pick 201: Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech
2005, Round 7, Pick 205: Matt Cassel, USC
2008, Round 3, Pick 94: Kevin O'Connell, San Diego State
2010, Round 7, Pick 250: Zac Robinson, Oklahoma State
2011, Round 3, Pick 74: Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
2014, Round 2, Pick 64: Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
2016, Round 3, Pick 91: Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State
2018, Round 7, Pick 219: Danny Etling, LSU
2019, Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

We don't seem capable of evaluating these guys, and we keep taking these so-called 1st round talents who drop (because no one else wants them) but we think they're missing the boat on O'Connell, Mallett, Brisset and Stidham (granted, with Stidham we had an actual need). But the other QBs? They were taken because we had a very high grade on them, and they dropped because no one else wanted them, but they were surely not a need.
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
I disagree. If we are THAT HIGH on Mills, we should be taking him ASAFP......same as if we were high on Brady back in 2000....we didn't know it at the time, but we RISKED everything by letting him slide in rounds 2-5 then....
It’s the same reasoning Bill Belichick used to draft Jordan Richards in the 2nd round when he was projected by many to be taken in the 6th round heading into the draft. Let’s not do that with our 15th overall pick please. If the Pats want Mills, there is a very good chance he’ll still be there at pick 46, but no chance a better prospect in that Horn, Slater, Paye group will make it to 46. Never bid against yourself.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Why would anyone believe that we know how to evaluate QBs that well? Look at our track record. The guy who evaluated Brady died more than a decade ago. Since then it's been nothing but misery:

2002, Round 4, Pick 117: Rohan Davey, LSU
2003, Round 6, Pick 201: Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech
2005, Round 7, Pick 205: Matt Cassel, USC
2008, Round 3, Pick 94: Kevin O'Connell, San Diego State
2010, Round 7, Pick 250: Zac Robinson, Oklahoma State
2011, Round 3, Pick 74: Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
2014, Round 2, Pick 64: Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
2016, Round 3, Pick 91: Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State
2018, Round 7, Pick 219: Danny Etling, LSU
2019, Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

We don't seem capable of evaluating these guys, and we keep taking these so-called 1st round talents who drop (because no one else wants them) but we think they're missing the boat on O'Connell, Mallett, Brisset and Stidham (granted, with Stidham we had an actual need). But the other QBs? They were taken because we had a very high grade on them, and they dropped because no one else wanted them, but they were surely not a need.
Please go look at EVERY QB draft since 2000...(Wiki let's you sort by year and position).

Teams that NEED a QB draft them earlier, and many, many teams have done worse at QB drafting than the Pats - and that's while we had Brady. only time they really spent capital was Garoppolo, and if he could stay on the damned field (no indication that would be the case), that would have been an A+ second round pick.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I think Michel lives in a strange no-mans land between overdrafted yet productive. Most first round misses flame out badly...I feel if Michel had been taken as a 2nd or 3rd it would be a success, and still it isn't a signing that makes me cry badly.
He's had a pair of 900+ yard seasons, and in his shortened season, averaged 5.7 YPC.

Biggest problem: they won't throw him the ball. He doesn't call the plays, but he can catch out of hte backfield and is very good with running room. I hope they use him a lot on 3rd down this year, even with White back.
 

mgteich

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Why would anyone believe that we know how to evaluate QBs that well? Look at our track record. The guy who evaluated Brady died more than a decade ago. Since then it's been nothing but misery:

2002, Round 4, Pick 117: Rohan Davey, LSU
2003, Round 6, Pick 201: Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech
2005, Round 7, Pick 205: Matt Cassel, USC
2008, Round 3, Pick 94: Kevin O'Connell, San Diego State
2010, Round 7, Pick 250: Zac Robinson, Oklahoma State
2011, Round 3, Pick 74: Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
2014, Round 2, Pick 64: Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
2016, Round 3, Pick 91: Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State
2018, Round 7, Pick 219: Danny Etling, LSU
2019, Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

We don't seem capable of evaluating these guys, and we keep taking these so-called 1st round talents who drop (because no one else wants them) but we think they're missing the boat on O'Connell, Mallett, Brisset and Stidham (granted, with Stidham we had an actual need). But the other QBs? They were taken because we had a very high grade on them, and they dropped because no one else wanted them, but they were surely not a need.
I expect that at very latest, we will be drafting a QB in the 2nd. We have done OK when we drafted a QB that high.
 

Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep
Why would anyone believe that we know how to evaluate QBs that well? Look at our track record. The guy who evaluated Brady died more than a decade ago. Since then it's been nothing but misery:

2002, Round 4, Pick 117: Rohan Davey, LSU
2003, Round 6, Pick 201: Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech
2005, Round 7, Pick 205: Matt Cassel, USC
2008, Round 3, Pick 94: Kevin O'Connell, San Diego State
2010, Round 7, Pick 250: Zac Robinson, Oklahoma State
2011, Round 3, Pick 74: Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
2014, Round 2, Pick 64: Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
2016, Round 3, Pick 91: Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State
2018, Round 7, Pick 219: Danny Etling, LSU
2019, Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

We don't seem capable of evaluating these guys, and we keep taking these so-called 1st round talents who drop (because no one else wants them) but we think they're missing the boat on O'Connell, Mallett, Brisset and Stidham (granted, with Stidham we had an actual need). But the other QBs? They were taken because we had a very high grade on them, and they dropped because no one else wanted them, but they were surely not a need.
I don't see how you can say that it's been nothing but misery. Everyone with the exception of Garoppolo was drafted as a clipboard holder. The jury is out on Stidham still. Cassel and Brissett were fine for their roles.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I don't see how you can say that it's been nothing but misery. Everyone with the exception of Garoppolo was drafted as a clipboard holder. The jury is out on Stidham still. Cassel and Brissett were fine for their roles.
Because they don't bother to go an actually look at the list of QBs taken each year - out of the first round, there are about 10 who have done anything at all in the NFL, and one of them is Jimmy Garoppolo.
 

NormZauchin

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Cousins, you are really hung up on the OSU QB stigma....just because many out of OSU have flopped doesn't mean that Fields will flop. If anything, OSU is beyond DUE to produce a quality NFL QB.....
Year the NFL was founded: 1920. Number of great OSU quarterbacks to play in the NFL in 100 years: 0. Number of decent OSU quarterbacks to play in the NFL in 100 years: 0. Yes, Ohio State is beyond due, but, then again, so is Amherst.
 

Rob0729

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Why would anyone believe that we know how to evaluate QBs that well? Look at our track record. The guy who evaluated Brady died more than a decade ago. Since then it's been nothing but misery:

2002, Round 4, Pick 117: Rohan Davey, LSU
2003, Round 6, Pick 201: Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech
2005, Round 7, Pick 205: Matt Cassel, USC
2008, Round 3, Pick 94: Kevin O'Connell, San Diego State
2010, Round 7, Pick 250: Zac Robinson, Oklahoma State
2011, Round 3, Pick 74: Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
2014, Round 2, Pick 64: Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
2016, Round 3, Pick 91: Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State
2018, Round 7, Pick 219: Danny Etling, LSU
2019, Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

We don't seem capable of evaluating these guys, and we keep taking these so-called 1st round talents who drop (because no one else wants them) but we think they're missing the boat on O'Connell, Mallett, Brisset and Stidham (granted, with Stidham we had an actual need). But the other QBs? They were taken because we had a very high grade on them, and they dropped because no one else wanted them, but they were surely not a need.

Although he wasn't actually drafted, you should throw Hoyer in there. Add him to Cassel, Garoppolo, and Brissett and the Pats haven't drafted all that poorly. In fact, the Pats probably have a better success record than most teams. They have drafted or taken as an undrafted free agent four QBs who have started and had at least some success as starters even though they had their franchise QB.

The Pats haven't drafted for a true #1 QB in the Belichick era. The closest are Garoppolo (which was a relative success) and Stidham (who came into the league as a project and was never guaranteed to be the heir apparent to Brady). So we do not know how good Belichick and his staff are at drafting a franchise QB.

But your characterization that there has been "nothing but misery" for the Patriots at draft QBs is not remotely true. Cassel, Garoppolo, and Brissett were successes. So was Hoyer although technically not a draft pick. I mean Cassel was a seventh round pick who led the Pats to an 11-5 season one year and got the Pats a second round pick in trade. Garoppolo brought the 49ers to the Super Bowl. Brissett had success as a starter in Indy. Hoyer has been a solid #2 QB for the Pats and a lot of teams and was a starter for a decent period of time as an undrafted free agent pick.

Sure the Pats missed on guys like O'Connell and Mallett, but plenty of other teams have whiffed just as bad. The difference is the Pats got those guys in the third round and other teams' whiffs were drafted in the first and second rounds.

If all or most of the Pats' picks were in the first and second rounds, then you might have a point. But other than Garoppolo, none of the picks were before the third round and several were in the sixth and seventh rounds. When you draft a QB in the third round or later, you expect their ceilings to be a solid back up #2 QB. If you get better than that, you are golden. Any QB with a good chance of becoming a solid starter is going in the first or second round. By the third round, you are getting incomplete players with significant flaws that you hope you can correct.
 

Rob0729

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I don't see how you can say that it's been nothing but misery. Everyone with the exception of Garoppolo was drafted as a clipboard holder. The jury is out on Stidham still. Cassel and Brissett were fine for their roles.

Yeah, I look at that list and include Hoyer, who was an UDFA, and I think the Pats have been pretty good at evaluating QBs in the draft. Upstarter should go and look at other teams drafts and compare them to the Pats' pick.

The year the Pats drafted Matt Cassel in the seventh round, the Redskins drafted Jason Campbell in the first. It took Cassel a number of years to become a starter, but when he did, he had a better career than Campbell.

Even the year the Pats whiffed and selected Ryan Mallett in the third round, the Titans drafted Jake Locker with the 8th pick, the Jags took Blaine Gabbert with the 10th pick, and the Vikings drafted Christian Ponder with the 12th pick (boy was that a bad QB draft). Now who whiffed more in that draft? The Patriots or the three other teams that drafted QB busts high in the first round?
 

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