PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Patriots Beat the Giants 33-15 (10th Straight Win)

[Mike the Brit]

I really like it when the players acknowledge the Minutemen like Moss used to do after TDs in their EZ...

Talking of whom, it was great to see him at Foxboro on Monday! Love you, Mr Moss!

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

And Brandon Lloyd catches a 3rd-down (IIRC) pass and I swear if he had just stayed on his ****ing feet & kept running, he would've had a much longer gain on that one... No I'm not bitter

That applies to every reception Lloyd ever made.

 

[mgteich]

He will be a hot commodity if Pitt moves on, which is truly baffling to me.

Yes, there are those who don't agree with you. And, yes, their ideas and thinking is baffling to you.
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Ranking NFL head coaches from best to worst, Ndamukong Suh retires and we have the first training camp holdout

Here's everything you need to know about the NFL for July 14

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I suspect that most lists of the top HC's in this century would include Tomlin. I also suspeact that a top 10 list would include him in the top current HC's. And, as you state, if Tomlin leaves, there will be many suitors.

 

[patfanken]

Yes, there are those who don't agree with you. And, yes, their ideas and thinking is baffling to you.
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I suspect that most lists of the top HC's in this century would include Tomlin. I also suspeact that a top 10 list would include him in the top current HC's. And, as you state, if Tomlin leaves, there will be many suitors.

I agree that Tomlin IS a top 10 HC in terms of leadership, team building, and player development all critical aspects of being a great HC. What he has never been has been a great x's and o's guy and game planner. I never thought that we didn't have the better game plans when we played Pittsburgh while Tomlin has been the HC. That's the flaw in his game. It's not like he is bad at it, just not great at it like Bill was.

There was a guy on the last page who forever hated Tavon Wilson because when he was a rookie and thrown in there because of an injury and cost us a game because he got faked out by a play action pass fake. Well, Troy Pollomallu used to get beat by Brady on play action pass action 2 or 3 times a GAME, EVERY game he played against us back in the day and he's in the HOF I never understood that anger.

At any rate, some HC's are great leaders, some have brilliant offensive or defensive minds, some are great organizers. They all bring something to the table and they all have to be extremely competitive and detailed orientated. Most tend to attract good assistants Some are charismatic, but that's not a requirement. Like Bill it seems after close to 20 years, Mike's time has come to an end in Plitsburgh. He;'s had a great run, probably a HOF run, (though he would not get my vote.) I respect his accomplishments and wish him well. If I were the Giants I'd grab him the day he became available. If their QB survives the season, it will be the best job available.

 

[Shed83]

That applies to every reception Lloyd ever made.

Yes….that used to infuriate me. Good route runner, very good hands but the heart of a mouse at times.

One of the best TD photos ever though!!!

 

[Clonamery]

@Clonamery I’m aware that it’s been discussed at nauseum, but I truly felt the need to get my point across. No pun intended..

Fair. Point.

 

[Zoomnbyu]

Cousins never made it to a SuperBowl. Cousins is the just better than mediocre quarterback who will get you to the playoffs but not accomplish anything. He's like a QB version of Mike Tomlin.

(Yes, I know Tomlin got to and won a Super Bowl, but I mean more recent Tomlin.)

Trent Dilfer "won" a SB doesn't make him great. Maybe Cousins and Burrows are great but then pick crappy teams but then are the teams crappy because the QBs represent such a large percentage of the salary cap. Either way, doesn't sound like these guys are going to win you the promised land.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Real fan 02]

Who's saying he isn't? Calling ******** on that one unless you got names.

Agreed... having an excellent season and one of the best TEs in the game..

Hunter Henry - New England Patriots Tight End - ESPN

View the profile of New England Patriots Tight End Hunter Henry on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

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[Real fan 02]

Back in 2008, Patriots rookie and UDFA LB Gary Guyton had more sacks than JEST DE Vernon Gholston.

Gholst-on dissappeared and was a 1st round bust

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Yes, there are those who don't agree with you. And, yes, their ideas and thinking is baffling to you.
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=======
I suspect that most lists of the top HC's in this century would include Tomlin. I also suspeact that a top 10 list would include him in the top current HC's. And, as you state, if Tomlin leaves, there will be many suitors.

My opinion is my own, formed from many years of watching him coach, and many years of talking with hardcore Steelers fans who see what I see.
I don't care what others write, or how many of his former players talk about what a great man he is. I do think he he is a good mentor and leader.
I remember years ago in the heat of our Brady/Ben rivalry we would always spread them out and Brady would just kill their zone D resulting in wins for us against them in the biggest games.
We had an upcoming game against them and a reporter brought this up with Tomlin and asked him what they could do different. His answer "we aren't going to change, we do what we do". This is how he coaches, and what has fans so frustrated. Refusing to adjust when history has proven you need to change.
Again, I think he has good qualities of a HC, but when it comes to the Xs and Os he simply isn't a good coach.
I have over a 15 year sample size, my opinion wasn't formed in haste.

 

[Ring 6]

My opinion is my own, formed from many years of watching him coach, and many years of talking with hardcore Steelers fans who see what I see.
I don't care what others write, or how many of his former players talk about what a great man he is. I do think he he is a good mentor and leader.
I remember years ago in the heat of our Brady/Ben rivalry we would always spread them out and Brady would just kill their zone D resulting in wins for us against them in the biggest games.
We had an upcoming game against them and a reporter brought this up with Tomlin and asked him what they could do different. His answer "we aren't going to change, we do what we do". This is how he coaches, and what has fans so frustrated. Refusing to adjust when history has proven you need to change.
Again, I think he has good qualities of a HC, but when it comes to the Xs and Os he simply isn't a good coach.
I have over a 15 year sample size, my opinion wasn't formed in haste.

If you look at that article it’s hard to argue anyone behind him should be ranked ahead of him.
Sure he has deficiencies, but all coaches do. At least 1/3 of all current head coaches will fail miserably. Always being at least average and getting to 2 SBs in 20 years does make you a top 10 coach in this league. There are only 7 current HCs who have ever won a SB.

It’s sort of like the new popular fake argument that the Patriots lack depth. You can find a lot of flaws in the Patriots depth, but when you look around the league and compare it to others teams, it’s actually good. It’s like people have a phony idea of how other teams have great depth, but when you look at it’s not true.
There are many ways to knock Tomlin but compared to all of the other HCs he compares favorably. The bar is low.
I say this from the perspective of I don’t like him as a coach and wouldn’t want hire him, but if I had to pick among the current NFL coaches he is closer to the top than the bottom and if you base it on their actual results he is in the top 10.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

If you look at that article it’s hard to argue anyone behind him should be ranked ahead of him.
Sure he has deficiencies, but all coaches do. At least 1/3 of all current head coaches will fail miserably. Always being at least average and getting to 2 SBs in 20 years does make you a top 10 coach in this league. There are only 7 current HCs who have ever won a SB.

It’s sort of like the new popular fake argument that the Patriots lack depth. You can find a lot of flaws in the Patriots depth, but when you look around the league and compare it to others teams, it’s actually good. It’s like people have a phony idea of how other teams have great depth, but when you look at it’s not true.
There are many ways to knock Tomlin but compared to all of the other HCs he compares favorably. The bar is low.
I say this from the perspective of I don’t like him as a coach and wouldn’t want hire him, but if I had to pick among the current NFL coaches he is closer to the top than the bottom and if you base it on their actual results he is in the top 10.

Nothing you said is untrue.
The bar is low, and when you compare him to 31 other coaches he certainly does rank higher than many.
That said, if he coached for for any other organization I can't imagine he would still be there, the Rooney's are loyal to a fault.
I would never, ever want him as a coach for the Pats.
He is good at certain aspects of being a HC, but to me he is more a developer of men than football players.
That's great the his former players hold him in such high regard for making them the men they are, and he should be commended for that, but as a football fan, that is secondary to most.
If he were to hire really good coordinators and let them manage each side of the ball then he could be much better, but even still ultimately, he as HC has to make the tough in game decisions, clock management...etc, and he simply is not very good at that.

 

[Ring 6]

Nothing you said is untrue.
The bar is low, and when you compare him to 31 other coaches he certainly does rank higher than many.
That said, if he coached for for any other organization I can't imagine he would still be there, the Rooney's are loyal to a fault.
I would never, ever want him as a coach for the Pats.
He is good at certain aspects of being a HC, but to me he is more a developer of men than football players.
That's great the his former players hold him in such high regard for making them the men they are, and he should be commended for that, but as a football fan, that is secondary to most.
If he were to hire really good coordinators and let them manage each side of the ball then he could be much better, but even still ultimately, he as HC has to make the tough in game decisions, clock management...etc, and he simply is not very good at that.

When he won he had top coordinators. Bruce Arians was his OC from 07-11. In those 5 years he was 5-3 in the post season and went to the SB twice.
In the 14 years since he is 3-8 in the post season and zero SBs.
**** lebeau was the DC until 2014.


Really I think one of his deficiencies is “developer of men”. He has a long line of talented players who were head cases, and who loved to create bulletin board material for opponents and he never reigned them unsuccessfully.

 

[TommyD4207]

"This poll is stupid"

 

[maust]

I never thought that we didn't have the better game plans when we played Pittsburgh while Tomlin has been the HC.

Except maybe for last year

 

[maust]

Nothing you said is untrue.
The bar is low, and when you compare him to 31 other coaches he certainly does rank higher than many.
That said, if he coached for for any other organization I can't imagine he would still be there, the Rooney's are loyal to a fault.
I would never, ever want him as a coach for the Pats.
He is good at certain aspects of being a HC, but to me he is more a developer of men than football players.
That's great the his former players hold him in such high regard for making them the men they are, and he should be commended for that, but as a football fan, that is secondary to most.
If he were to hire really good coordinators and let them manage each side of the ball then he could be much better, but even still ultimately, he as HC has to make the tough in game decisions, clock management...etc, and he simply is not very good at that.

I do not disagree with your major points, particularly the Rooney's loyalty perhaps biting them in the ass a bit when it comes to Tomlin. @patfanken made a great point when he mentioned the Giants being a good landing spot for Tomlin. For them his developmental strength in building a solid locker room/team culture could very well help reset things there. Of course to your points he needs excellent coordinators who can create game plans and handle in game calls for their respective sides of the ball on gameday and a designated clock manager would be a must