Reid vs BB at developing QBs

[crawhammer]

Your entire post is refuted by 2001 alone.

Really? You mean the season Brady stepped in, went 14-3, and won a Super Bowl in his first ever season as a starter in the NFL. Won the Super Bowl with the first of his 6 SB game-winning drives for the Patriots. Went 14-3 with a team that was 5-13 with Belichick and the previous quarterback. Really dude, 2001? The impact of a quarterback has never been so obvious (and stood as such until 2020 when Brady crowned another previously hapless franchise).

 

[Joker]

Really? You mean the season Brady stepped in, went 14-3, and won a Super Bowl in his first ever season as a starter in the NFL. Won the Super Bowl with the first of his 6 SB game-winning drives for the Patriots. Went 14-3 with a team that was 5-13 with Belichick and the previous quarterback. Really dude, 2001? The impact of a quarterback has never been so obvious (and stood as such until 2020 when Brady crowned another previously hapless franchise).

The Patriots went 11-5 during the regular 2001 season.Here's Brady's numbers...

QB Tom Brady* 24 1 14 264 for 413, 2,843 yards, 18 td, 12 int, & 36 rushes for 43 yards and 0 td

It is time you mods put this obvious troll on read only. He never stops with the outright lying going back to the thousands of :Lamar Jackson posts he's made on our board. It's time.

 

[All3Phases]

If Bill O'Brien arrived a season earlier, or Josh McD stayed a season longer... they very likely make the playoffs two years in a row. All the whining about 2022 and BB's inability to win without "he who shall not be named" would be gone.

Not sure itd be gone. You go from winning the division every year and being in the CCG 60% of your seasons in 2 decades to being in the WC game and losing 2 years in a row, and that is proof of something?

 

[All3Phases]

The Patriots went 11-5 during the regular 2001 season.Here's Brady's numbers...

QB Tom Brady* 24 1 14 264 for 413, 2,843 yards, 18 td, 12 int, & 36 rushes for 43 yards and 0 td

It is time you mods put this obvious troll on read only. He never stops with the outright lying going back to the thousands of :Lamar Jackson posts he's made on our board. It's time.

You left out the fact that in 18 games (5-13) from 2000-01 under Bledsoe the Patriots scored 16.4 PPG and under rookie Brady they scored 22.3 PPG in 14 games (11-3). Did an additional TD scored per game help? Or was that just a coincidence and Brady was mediocre and the team happened to turn it around at the exact time of the qb change?

 

[Ring 6]

Really? You mean the season Brady stepped in, went 14-3, and won a Super Bowl in his first ever season as a starter in the NFL. Won the Super Bowl with the first of his 6 SB game-winning drives for the Patriots. Went 14-3 with a team that was 5-13 with Belichick and the previous quarterback. Really dude, 2001? The impact of a quarterback has never been so obvious (and stood as such until 2020 when Brady crowned another previously hapless franchise).

So your argument is that the 2001 Patriots were a more talented than the 2001 Rams?

 

[Ring 6]

You left out the fact that in 18 games (5-13) from 2000-01 under Bledsoe the Patriots scored 16.4 PPG and under rookie Brady they scored 22.3 PPG in 14 games (11-3). Did an additional TD scored per game help? Or was that just a coincidence and Brady was mediocre and the team happened to turn it around at the exact time of the qb change?

The 2000 roster and the 2001 roster as different as probably any team ever from one year to the next.

 

[All3Phases]

So your argument is that the 2001 Patriots were a more talented than the 2001 Rams?

No but the argument that one player played the largest role in turning around the fate of a losing franchise is valid, given by the facts that played out...Again, unless you think it was a total coincidence that a team 8 games under .500 with one coach/qb went 8 games over with the same coach/new qb along with scoring an additional td per game?

Comparing it to Reid, who was a great coach prior to Mahomes, but never was able to get to the finish line...Is now leading a dynasty and working his way up the coaching ranks list. Is it all Mahomes? No, but a LARGE portion of it is

 

[Sect140]

Since Bill is a defensive coach and Andy is an offensive coach and this thread is about who’s better at developing an offensive position (QB), then shouldn’t there be a thread asking who is better at developing a defensive player such as a pass rusher?

 

[Ring 6]

No but the argument that one player played the largest role in turning around the fate of a losing franchise is valid, given by the facts that played out...Again, unless you think it was a total coincidence that a team 8 games under .500 with one coach/qb went 8 games over with the same coach/new qb along with scoring an additional td per game?

Comparing it to Reid, who was a great coach prior to Mahomes, but never was able to get to the finish line...Is now leading a dynasty and working his way up the coaching ranks list. Is it all Mahomes? No, but a LARGE portion of it is

That wasn’t his argument that I was responding to his argument was belichick never won a SB with less talented teams.

The 2000 roster and the 2001 roster were night and day different.

 

[All3Phases]

Why can I not see Ring6s quotes to me?

 

[Wozzy]

Urban Meyer sucked. Lawrence also was terrible his rookie season which certainly had something to do with him being a rookie.

But nothing to do with Urban Meyer or his scheme... sound logic.

So, if Mac joined a good team with good coaching then what the hell happened with the 1-4 finish to the 2021 season? Moreover explain to me why the team is 8-15 in December and January over the last four seasons?

He was a pudgy weak rookie used to playing a 13 game schedule and entered a league where he could play close to 20 games including the playoffs. Not surprisingly week thirteen was after the bye week where he started to wear down.

What am I learning? You just said basically the same thing as me about Daniel Jones. Decent quarterback who was bad with a putrid head coach and then better with very good head coach.

The thing you're sidestepping is DJ's rushing contribution. He had 57 rushing first downs... his previous high was 21. He had 7 rushing TDs... he had 5 total in his first three seasons. He more than doubled his rushing yards per season. Credit to Daboll for recognizing his quarterback's skill set but the player deserves a lot of credit too. He's a good quarterback.

Only you could be here arguing how great Daniel Jones has been... Daniel Jones.

He was 12-25 before Daboll arrived, he won 9 games with Daboll... he won almost as many games in one season of Daboll as he had three seasons prior. Giants fans were calling for his replacement... laughable.

Learn the game.

 

[Wozzy]

LOL! Just seeing this. No, not gonna "shut up" about Brady. It's not my fault Belichick can't win without Brady... it is what it is. It's up to BB to change the narrative. And yes, when a quarterback wins 16 division titles in a row, it's pretty likely he would have continued the streak. He won 2 more division titles with his new team, and the one season he didn't win the division, he won the Super Bowl instead.

So yeah, Brady's a magician, a unicorn, the GOAT. There have been a lot of quarterbacks who were "great quarterbacks and played on good to great teams." No one else has more than 4 rings to show for it. Brady has 7 rings and 14 postseason game-winning drives behind it. The next guy has 6 GWDs. It's the extraordinary clutch play that separated Brady from everyone else.

You've been asked by the mod's and fellow posters to stop being such a hard-on weirdo about Brady... I see it's beyond your ability to stop.

It doesn't mean the rest of us have to indulge you.

 

[Wozzy]

Not sure itd be gone. You go from winning the division every year and being in the CCG 60% of your seasons in 2 decades to being in the WC game and losing 2 years in a row, and that is proof of something?

The last QB played here twenty years and only won 6 times... it's hard to win a ring.

The playoffs for a rebuilding team two years in a row would be trending in the right direction. Yeah, it would have been impressive.

The Patricia experiment is the only thing that put a kibosh on that. He's gone.

 

[Wozzy]

Since Bill is a defensive coach and Andy is an offensive coach and this thread is about who’s better at developing an offensive position (QB), then shouldn’t there be a thread asking who is better at developing a defensive player such as a pass rusher?

Reid is the best offensive mind in the league. It's not simply a matter of him developing QB's if at all, it's about his ability to gameplan for opposing defenses, create unique plays to get guys open and make his QB's life easier.

If Patrick Mahomes went to the Texans he'd win about as many games as Deshaun Watson did there.

 

[All3Phases]

Reid is the best offensive mind in the league. It's not simply a matter of him developing QB's if at all, it's about his ability to gameplan for opposing defenses, create unique plays to get guys open and make his QB's life easier.

Hes definitely one of the greatest minds of all time...Who was a failure in the playoffs with Alex Smith. So its alot about the qb as well.

If Patrick Mahomes went to the Texans he'd win about as many games as Deshaun Watson did there.

This is an opinion, unfortunately cant be proven

 

[Ian]

Why can I not see Ring6s quotes to me?

This has been fixed.

 

[All3Phases]

This has been fixed.

Thanks, was just wondering because I could see his others and got the notification for it!

 

[All3Phases]

That wasn’t his argument that I was responding to his argument was belichick never won a SB with less talented teams.

The 2000 roster and the 2001 roster were night and day different.

I would say a lot of the core from the 2001 team was on the 2000 roster as well. The team was underperforming in 01 as well before Bledsoe got hurt. They were simply better with Brady vs Bledsoe

 

[Wozzy]

Hes definitely one of the greatest minds of all time...Who was a failure in the playoffs with Alex Smith. So its alot about the qb as well.

Different teams beyond just the QB, even if Mahomes is superior. It’s a team game.

Reid played us in a Super Bowl back in 2004.

This is an opinion, unfortunately cant be proven

Patricia sucked at offense isn’t.

Watson was better than Mahomes in 2020, he won 4 games. It’s a team game.

 

[All3Phases]

Different teams beyond just the QB, even if Mahomes is superior. It’s a team game.

Yes, the defenses were always much better under Smith...They got worse as Mahomes got there. The offenses were always better under Mahomes though regardless of personnel

Reid played us in a Super Bowl back in 2004.

Reid won 2/3 super bowl and is dominating the league right now. So its playing in 1 over 20 years, vs playing in 3 in 5 and winning 2. Coincidence?

Patricia sucked at offense isn’t.

Thats true, not sure how that relates here though

Watson was better than Mahomes in 2020, he won 4 games. It’s a team game.

Watson has never been a better player than Mahomes.