Reid vs BB at developing QBs

[StrawHatPatriot]

This narrative about BB without Brady just proves what Bill has already said lots of times. It's the players and only the players who win games. They matter more than a coach. Since the QB is the most important player, gimme an all time great QB anyday over an all time great coach. The Patriots had both for a long time and we saw the results.

Great coaches like BB can only do so much, they can't take a bad or mediocre team to a championship (case in point 2000, 2020-2022) but weak coaches can be carried by a great QB and team a long way. Like Peyton Manning carrying Jim Caldwell to the Super Bowl. Terrible coaching can also make a good team underachieve and we've seen that happen around the league including in NE.

Would Bill make the 0-16 Lions or Browns a playoff team? No way no how. Players matter more.

And this is the biggest point of all.

It helps that Andy's resume without Mahomes is mostly with a 2nd overall pick at the beginning of Andy's career and a 1st overall pick at the beginning of his 2nd coaching stint. A lot of luck and certainly a lot of skill as we've all seen.

Mentioning draft round/number but not the name is misleading though. Alex Smith was no 1 overall, but everyone who watched him knew he was not a great QB at all. Not really that talented.

 

[Toofy]

This is where I'm at. I don't expect titles, but expect Bill to go on playoff runs like other Coaches with mid QB's and/or teams. The longer this continues without Brady, the media will get louder with criticism of Bill saying he was only good with Brady. He can't have another 8-9 season, missing the playoffs with now 7 teams when he's also the GM. That's a bad look.

On the other hand, Reid ended up in a good situation where he picked the right guy with McNabb where it seems many fans don't realize he was a pretty good QB and took his game to another level when TO arrived. This is a common theme today with many other QB's.

Fair comparison would be Mike vrabel... He has had pretty decent success and won playoff games . We need do compare bills record without Brady with say vrabel and even bill o brien. It should be fascinating .

 

[Real fan 02]

It's going to be interesting to see if Reid can keep the offensive cupboard stocked with guys like Kelce .. we've already have seen a drop off in the wr corps there... Can mahomie Brady up and make do with lesser talent that comes with drafting low year in year out?

And that is exactly why BB is the greatest GOAT HC.. he's coached his teams with far less talent than Reid has had.. We've won superbowls with undrafted WRs and WRs playing CB.. at times ( Troy brown)
Until there is another HC/QB combination that sustains 19 seasons of winning. BB will reign Supreme

 

[TheRainMaker]

This narrative about BB without Brady just proves what Bill has already said lots of times. It's the players and only the players who win games. They matter more than a coach. Since the QB is the most important player, gimme an all time great QB anyday over an all time great coach. The Patriots had both for a long time and we saw the results.

Great coaches like BB can only do so much, they can't take a bad or mediocre team to a championship (case in point 2000, 2020-2022) but weak coaches can be carried by a great QB and team a long way. Like Peyton Manning carrying Jim Caldwell to the Super Bowl. Terrible coaching can also make a good team underachieve and we've seen that happen around the league including in NE.

Would Bill make the 0-16 Lions or Browns a playoff team? No way no how. Players matter more.

Coaching is very important, but they can only do so much. Same thing with the players. You might get one run out of them, but we have not seen good teams win multiple Super Bowls with bad or mediocre coaches.

Troy Aikman had said that the beginning of the end of the 90's Cowboys was Jimmy Johnson leaving. He really did not like Barry Switzer at all and they essentially carried Switzer to a Super Bowl in 1995. It's a shame Jerry Jones had to meddle with a good thing because those Cowboys had a few years left in them. In fact, this opened the door for the 1996 Packers.

Jimmy Johnson did a fairly good job in Miami, but he just couldn't land the same players he had in Dallas. I remember an aging Marino, putrid running game and their lack of explosive WR's kept holding them back.

 

[Ian]

Can Belichick add a non-Brady division title? Just one? I mean 17 of 18 with Brady and 0-10 without (0-5 if you want to just stick with NE). It's just not a good look regarding his legacy. I'm guessing 3 more seasons to do something about it.

I'm sure winning the Division will just lead to the next thing you'll refer to. We get it, you hate BB, he's terrible, mediocre, can't win without Brady, etc. Beating this drum needs to stop because you've repeated this same point way too many times, and typically multiple times per thread.

Enough is enough. Time to invest this energy into trying to focus on what they might actually do this year vs all the time focusing on what you think they won't do. Makes these threads very tough to sift through, especially when it's always the same.

 

[Toofy]

Coaching is very important, but they can only do so much. Same thing with the players. You might get one run out of them, but we have not seen good teams win multiple Super Bowls with bad or mediocre coaches.

Troy Aikman had said that the beginning of the end of the 90's Cowboys was Jimmy Johnson leaving. He really did not like Barry Switzer at all and they essentially carried Switzer to a Super Bowl in 1995. It's a shame Jerry Jones had to meddle with a good thing because those Cowboys had a few years left in them. In fact, this opened the door for the 1996 Packers.

Jimmy Johnson did a fairly good job in Miami, but he just couldn't land the same players he had in Dallas. I remember an aging Marino, putrid running game and their lack of explosive WR's kept holding them back.

Great points. But Bill is the GM still and it's the 4th year after Tom left . So by now our drafts and free agency signings as well as in house developed players should start shining . If not, we do have a problem.

Again as a pats fan I wouldn't have anyone other than Bill right now. But bills window is also closing and he needs to have a solid season in next 2 -3 years to cement his legacy else there would be question marks and if Andy wins 2 more , it's up for debate .

Bill can't be having Mike vrabelesque or bill o brienite stats without Brady . Otherwise what's the difference between bill and jim Caldwell.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Great points. But Bill is the GM still and it's the 4th year after Tom left . So by now our drafts and free agency signings as well as in house developed players should start shining . If not, we do have a problem.

He's got to make the playoffs this season. The floodgates will open from the media/talking heads if he does not.

Again as a pats fan I wouldn't have anyone other than Bill right now.

There are coaches that are doing a better job than him right now.

But bills window is also closing and he needs to have a solid season in next 2 -3 years to cement his legacy else there would be question marks and if Andy wins 2 more , it's up for debate .

Bill just needs to win some playoff games. Is that too much to ask? Andy certainly has a shot to make some noise with Mahomes.

Bill can't be having Mike vrabelesque or bill o brienite stats without Brady . Otherwise what's the difference between bill and jim Caldwell.

Mike Vrabel has one more playoff win than Belichick without Tom Brady. He has 3 playoff appearances in 5 seasons with mediocre QB play. O'Brien has 3 division titles and 4 playoff appearances in 6 seasons (fired early 2020) with mostly mediocre QB play. Belichick's record and no division titles after Tom Brady would be on the hot seat if it weren't for the years with Brady. It's time for Bill to step it up.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Pre 2020: Bullz the best cuz record and results are all that matterz.
Post 2020: Bullz the best cuz he'd win more if he had Mahomz.

Bill is 2008 Pedro Martinez. He should go the Chargers. Perfect fit as he can work his Phil Jackson team first magic for a stacked roster and coachable HoF talented QB. Might as well add a fourth sports reference to further complicate this: coach version of Ray Bourque?

Yikes that was bad.

But I think given his limited timeframe, looking at the division, and seeing the big picture, the Patriots and Bill should consider parting ways amicably. Patriots need a reset, not the purgatory philosophy. I don't really look at record so much as the lack of future building (trading for high picks, etc.). It's like they're all in but shouldn't be all in given the roster and especially the QB.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Reid is a better coach than Belichick. period. Reid's record in Philadelphia was 130-93-1 and included a super bowl appearance and 3 straight NFCCGs. And his record in KC is 117-45 and 2 super bowl titles. His QBs were McNabb, Vick, Smith (5 winning seasons), and Mahomes. In 24 years as HC, he has had only 3 losing seasons.

OTOH, Belichick's record without Brady is 79-87 and his record in Cleveland was of course abysmal. 7 losing seasons in 28 years, which amounts to 25% of his career.

Personally, I think Ernie Adams saved Belichick's career but I won't get into that here.

Oh, look who came to chime in. It’s mac10. Phony poser that was allowed to stay somehow with Ian’s good grace. Sorry pal, You can keep the wins, I’ll take the trophies and the accolades all day. Wasn’t there a time where Andy was trying to emulate Buffalo’s sb record of losing time after time and replace it with NFC championship losses?

Bill’s game plan for the Bills superbowl in 90 is in the hall of fame. Oh wait, he wasn’t a head coach, lets discount that one. Moving on, Bill also made a great game plan for the Rams that you could probably coincide with the 14 point underdog victory. All Brady? Those 185 yards really stuckout in that one? Andy would of pissed his pants. BB Lost perfection by giving up 17 points? Where was Brady on that one? Is that the game plan? Score 14 points? So I see all the narratives now. When the offense scores lower than the other team, it’s Belichicks fault. When the offense scores more than the other team it’s Brady’s credit?

Andy couldn’t dream of drawing up a game plan like both Rams superbowls. Both of those by Belichick were difference makers on the biggest stage alas Andy has never shown the ability to do. The Colts wins in 03 04? Oh thats right! It was the defense right? Nothing to do with BB and the coaches. Andy all day my ass. BB has fought wars, Andy has fought excursions on a far lower level with a much less success while BB and Brady were taking on the powerhouses like the Colts, Steelers and Ravens. Meanwhile Andy is losing every important game in the NFC and finally getting some relevant success due to Mahomes. Just like f@&$ing Brady and BB right? Because CERTAINLY MAHOMES HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH ANDY NOT LOOKING LIKE ANOTHER CHOKE JOB WHEN HE WAS DOWN 20 plus to Titans and Texans. Definitely not his game plan. ALL MAHOMES.

But of course I knew your homer self would post something like that. It’s what you do here. Snide little pot shots every chance you get.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Pre 2020: Bullz the best cuz record and results are all that matterz.
Post 2020: Bullz the best cuz he'd win more if he had Mahomz.

Bill is 2008 Pedro Martinez. He should go the Chargers. Perfect fit as he can work his Phil Jackson team first magic for a stacked roster and coachable HoF talented QB. Might as well add a fourth sports reference to further complicate this: coach version of Ray Bourque?

Yikes that was bad.

But I think given his limited timeframe, looking at the division, and seeing the big picture, the Patriots and Bill should consider parting ways amicably. Patriots need a reset, not the purgatory philosophy. I don't really look at record so much as the lack of future building (trading for high picks, etc.). It's like they're all in but shouldn't be all in given the roster and especially the QB.

He gets this year to show me something. I thought 23 was our "all in" year. Considering the money we've had/have. Mac's year 3/Core group on offense together for a few years. Defense is there. It's a 2-3 year league. I definitely don't feel like we're "all in" though.

I think it's fair to expect a team that "looks" like a contender. Even though we know the deck is stacked, particularly in the AFC. We should look like and hang with the big boys for the most part of the year.

If not, I'm really not interested in tinkering with a 8-9 win team. Or watching Bill chip away at Shula's record game by game.

Agree though we're in a weird place in terms of the roster on the offensive side. And there's absolutely nothing worse than being a 8-9 win team. If that happens again it'll be years, for us. Not something you can excuse away. Big year for owner, coach and qb.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bill would have been axed anywhere else or if he had any other name. Just to recap, coming off of one of the worst losses (Buffalo) in team history, here's what happened (mostly all in the widely cited article):

• The team attempted to change the offensive philosophy and adapt a McVay-Shanahan concept based on an outside cut and run scheme. I've been saying for a few years I wish they'd bring in a coordinator who can utilize this concept since it's worked well with classic pocket, quick read passers like Ryan, Jimmy G, Goff and Stafford. So this is good right?

No, because a few things to note. First, BB was late to the table. As he'd been dragging his feet admiring McVay's ideas, defenses had been adapting. Hence in 2022, the actual architects like McVay, Shanahan, LaFleur(s) were reducing its role and avoiding it. BB apparently missed the league wide changes. Second, you need the right personnel to run this which requires fast, athletic linemen (especially tackles) and it really helps to have a RB with quickness for the cuts and game breaking speed to make defenses pay for not over playing the run.

Instead, BB goes out and brings in two retreads who not only haven't run an offense but have zero first hand exposure to the system. The aftermath is well chronicled. I think play calling and schemes are overrated but there are exceptions and when you look at the splits last year this is an exception and coaching actively hurt the offense.

It's Jets level incompetent (the Jets brought in Frank Stallone LaFleur but had a terribly mismatched QB.). Mark Cuban: first come the innovators, then the imitators, then the idiots.

I look at the decision making "process" and it reinforces my belief that since 2017 this org has become increasingly dysfunctional as a cult of personality. I could cite dozens of examples but I'll just look more like a hater. It's just that doing things the wrong way has become the norm. The team continues to bring in no oversight or new ideas from outside the org.

It's been a journey through the Upside Down since Brady left. All the things Bill was praised for have been comically put on their heads. Atrocious in critical games against playoff competition (always blown out), terrible in close, competitive games, an anti-analytic risk-reward approach on 4th down, beat up on bad teams and run up the score, apparent locker room division, and the icing on the cake: the team that boasts about situational, smart football, roster depth and special teams was the worst special teams unit in the NFL, culminating in an embarrassing season ending performance.

Now they're in the process of creating more liabilities: short term cap relief by sacrificing future cap integrity (Parker). This is just **** that bad franchises do.

I'll say it again: the things that make great leaders are the things that make terrible leaders. It's true of every CEO and president. Confidence and arrogance are the same thing. Rigidity and stubbornness. In the right circumstances they are smart. In the wrong circumstances they are moronic. Bill has run his course in NE and I think he would do great if served up a contending roster and change of scenery and hopefully he would integrate with a new staff and ideas rather than continuing to recycle these coaching failures simply because they think exactly like him and don't challenge him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bill would have been axed anywhere else or if he had any other name.

Pete Carroll was fired for going 27-21, 1 division title, two playoff appearances, went to the divisional round, 1-1 with Bledsoe, 0-1 without him, but put up a fight against Jacksonville. He was at Bobby Grier’s mercy.

Bill is under .500 without Brady and picks all the groceries. Got blown out in his only playoff appearance. Time to step it up.

No, because a few things to note. First, BB was late to the table. As he'd been dragging his feet admiring McVay's ideas, defenses had been adapting. Hence in 2022, the actual architects like McVay, Shanahan, LaFleur(s) were reducing its role and avoiding it. BB apparently missed the league wide changes. Second, you need the right personnel to run this which requires fast, athletic linemen (especially tackles) and it really helps to have a RB with quickness for the cuts and game breaking speed to make defenses pay for not over playing the run.

Say what you will about Shanahan choking in big games, he’s always adapting his offense and is among the best offensive minds in the NFL. We’ve seen what he can do when he has actual talent at QB with Matt Ryan. 49ers with an elite QB would be scary.

Instead, BB goes out and brings in two retreads who not only haven't run an offense but have zero first hand exposure to the system. The aftermath is well chronicled. I think play calling and schemes are overrated but there are exceptions and when you look at the splits last year this is an exception and coaching actively hurt the offense.

Mac Jones was done dirty last season with that coaching staff.

It's been a journey through the Upside Down since Brady left. All the things Bill was praised for have been comically put on their heads. Atrocious in critical games against playoff competition (always blown out), terrible in close, competitive games, an anti-analytic risk-reward approach on 4th down, beat up on bad teams and run up the score, apparent locker room division, and the icing on the cake: the team that boasts about situational, smart football, roster depth and special teams was the worst special teams unit in the NFL, culminating in an embarrassing season ending performance.

The coaching staff/front office is not what it was when Bill started. That was one hell of a staff in the early 2000’s.

This staff just looks overmatched against competent teams and coaches.

Pats used to play their best football in November December. Now they play their worst as many posters call it the “December Slide”.

Then you have the Jacobi Meyers idiotic lateral to his QB against the Raiders. This was something the Jets would’ve done. I do think this was just one of the few reasons Bill reportedly did not even make an offer to Meyers in FA.

I still think no matter what happens this season, Kraft will keep Bill until he retires. We’re just going to have to accept this team for what it is.

 

[amfootball]

Bill would have been axed anywhere else or if he had any other name. Just to recap, coming off of one of the worst losses (Buffalo) in team history, here's what happened (mostly all in the widely cited article):

• The team attempted to change the offensive philosophy and adapt a McVay-Shanahan concept based on an outside cut and run scheme. I've been saying for a few years I wish they'd bring in a coordinator who can utilize this concept since it's worked well with classic pocket, quick read passers like Ryan, Jimmy G, Goff and Stafford. So this is good right?

No, because a few things to note. First, BB was late to the table. As he'd been dragging his feet admiring McVay's ideas, defenses had been adapting. Hence in 2022, the actual architects like McVay, Shanahan, LaFleur(s) were reducing its role and avoiding it. BB apparently missed the league wide changes. Second, you need the right personnel to run this which requires fast, athletic linemen (especially tackles) and it really helps to have a RB with quickness for the cuts and game breaking speed to make defenses pay for not over playing the run.

Instead, BB goes out and brings in two retreads who not only haven't run an offense but have zero first hand exposure to the system. The aftermath is well chronicled. I think play calling and schemes are overrated but there are exceptions and when you look at the splits last year this is an exception and coaching actively hurt the offense.

It's Jets level incompetent (the Jets brought in Frank Stallone LaFleur but had a terribly mismatched QB.). Mark Cuban: first come the innovators, then the imitators, then the idiots.

I look at the decision making "process" and it reinforces my belief that since 2017 this org has become increasingly dysfunctional as a cult of personality. I could cite dozens of examples but I'll just look more like a hater. It's just that doing things the wrong way has become the norm. The team continues to bring in no oversight or new ideas from outside the org.

It's been a journey through the Upside Down since Brady left. All the things Bill was praised for have been comically put on their heads. Atrocious in critical games against playoff competition (always blown out), terrible in close, competitive games, an anti-analytic risk-reward approach on 4th down, beat up on bad teams and run up the score, apparent locker room division, and the icing on the cake: the team that boasts about situational, smart football, roster depth and special teams was the worst special teams unit in the NFL, culminating in an embarrassing season ending performance.

Now they're in the process of creating more liabilities: short term cap relief by sacrificing future cap integrity (Parker). This is just **** that bad franchises do.

I'll say it again: the things that make great leaders are the things that make terrible leaders. It's true of every CEO and president. Confidence and arrogance are the same thing. Rigidity and stubbornness. In the right circumstances they are smart. In the wrong circumstances they are moronic. Bill has run his course in NE and I think he would do great if served up a contending roster and change of scenery and hopefully he would integrate with a new staff and ideas rather than continuing to recycle these coaching failures simply because they think exactly like him and don't challenge him.

These are excellent points. It is amazing what has happened over the past 3 seasons since Brady. I really don't understand why Bill went to the new offensive system last year when Mac showed in his rookie year that he could run the same offense as Brady. Then to boot, he puts Patricia and Judge in charge and when it was going rotten literally from day one, he did nothing to change it. It was by far his most baffling year as GM/HC.

What do you think of this year's team? How do you see us stacking up in the division. My opinion is we are the 4th roster in the division. If Tua did not have the concussion concerns, I would put us in a distant last but I think it may be close with Miami.

 

[Vindicate]

What hurts Bill is simply the fact that his regular and postseason success without Brady is way too pedestrian:

79-87 (.476)
0 division titles
7 losing seasons, 3 winning seasons
2 playoff appearances
1 playoff win

This isn't hate, this is factual. This is not a good look. If he was another coach with this 10 season resume... we'd say that he was just one of those defensive minded Head coaches that eventually got fired a la Rex Ryan, Mike Zimmer, etc. If you're resume is like this without Brady, people are just going to naturally attribute your success to him.

As where Reid without mahomes

(.600)
4 NFC title games
1 super bowl
A bunch of division titles and playoff appearances

With McNabb and Smith and Vick as QBs. None of them are hall of famers. He revitalized Vick's career.

No one is saying Belichick has to win 5 rings without Brady. But it's not a good look for his GOAT case that he has literally struggled to even make the playoffs without him, while we've seen several coaches make deep playoff runs with mid QBs (Rex Ryan, 90s Bill Cowher, Jim Harbaugh in 2011). Especially given his reputation as a guy who can win with anyone.

I guess what I'm wondering is: do you think Bill's records without Brady should be better, given the circumstances he was in (be in Browns or Patriots?)

 

[crawhammer]

And that is exactly why BB is the greatest GOAT HC.. he's coached his teams with far less talent than Reid has had.. We've won superbowls with undrafted WRs and WRs playing CB.. at times ( Troy brown)
Until there is another HC/QB combination that sustains 19 seasons of winning. BB will reign Supreme

When you have the greatest quarterback and player in the history of the NFL, you do NOT get to say you had teams "with far less talent" than anyone. It can never be said. Not once. There is NO example of Belichick ever winning a Super Bowl with far less talent than his opponent(s).

Brady is the all time eraser of team deficiencies and game deficits. No player in the history of the game has had Brady's uncanny ability to adapt and adjust to whatever supporting cast he's had, which from start to finish in New England changed 100%, along with a revolving door in between.

Has anyone looked at the list of receivers Brady completed passes to throughout his time in New England? It's incredibly long and largely unremarkable. There are no mainstays on it like HOFers Harrison and Wayne either. Moss for two seasons (one incredible season). Unheralded slot receivers that became near HOFers with Brady.

Lots of trash on the list too... see 2006, 2013, see literally every single WR taken in the top half of the draft. 18 drafts and the best Belichick could ever do was Deion Branch who never surpassed 1000 yards or 80 receptions or made a pro bowl or ever accomplished anything away from Brady.

So in fact, Brady won with less talent. Not Belichick. He had Brady, the greatest player in the history of the league, which is a HUGE advantage over every other HC and GM in the league.

If you want to claim Belichick can win with less talent then he'll have to prove it first. He can start with 2023... I have his team as the 3rd most talented in his own division. We know he hasn't proven it in 10 other opportunities... 0-10 which is pretty decidedly not winning at all ( with less or more or whatever).

 

[Real fan 02]

When you have the greatest quarterback and player in the history of the NFL, you do NOT get to say you had teams "with far less talent" than anyone. It can never be said. Not once. There is NO example of Belichick ever winning a Super Bowl with far less talent than his opponent(s).

Brady is the all time eraser of team deficiencies and game deficits. No player in the history of the game has had Brady's uncanny ability to adapt and adjust to whatever supporting cast he's had, which from start to finish in New England changed 100%, along with a revolving door in between.

Has anyone looked at the list of receivers Brady completed passes to throughout his time in New England? It's incredibly long and largely unremarkable. There are no mainstays on it like HOFers Harrison and Wayne either. Moss for two seasons (one incredible season). Unheralded slot receivers that became near HOFers with Brady.

Lots of trash on the list too... see 2006, 2013, see literally every single WR taken in the top half of the draft. 18 drafts and the best Belichick could ever do was Deion Branch who never surpassed 1000 yards or 80 receptions or made a pro bowl or ever accomplished anything away from Brady.

So in fact, Brady won with less talent. Not Belichick. He had Brady, the greatest player in the history of the league, which is a HUGE advantage over every other HC and GM in the league.

If you want to claim Belichick can win with less talent then he'll have to prove it first. He can start with 2023... I have his team as the 3rd most talented in his own division. We know he hasn't proven it in 10 other opportunities... 0-10 which is pretty decidedly not winning at all ( with less or more or whatever).

I'll definitely agree with what you're saying it makes very good sense. I'm just saying as far as a coach.. I believe there are many different coaching styles.. BB was meant to teach.. that is his passion. He has dedicated 40 plus years of his life to the game. He's spanned over so many different era's of football.

No one knew what Brady was until he got his opportunity to show why BB took a flyer on him. Early on the defenses and coaching helped Brady to get comfortable and acclimate to the game.

BB was great With finding undrafted guys, getting them in his system and coaching them up. No one has been better than BB in that aspect.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I guess what I'm wondering is: do you think Bill's records without Brady should be better, given the circumstances he was in (be in Browns or Patriots?)

Yes. He makes all the decisions. No excuses.

 

[borg]

Bill would have been axed anywhere else or if he had any other name.

Another less than flattering (though fact-based) article this week about BB by click bait opportunist Florio/PFT.

As gleefully described by Florio, Bill is fast approaching Tom Landry's career loss record.
How did it end so quickly for the 64 yr old legend who spent 29 years as Dallas HC?

Retired 11 years after last SB Championship.
Retired 10 years after last NFC Championship appearance
0 playoffs wins in final 6 years (2 appearances)
0 playoff appearances in final 3 years
Final record in each of last 3 seasons:
7-9
7-8
3-13

Note: Landry never won a NFC Championship game once Staubach retired ('79)
(Funny how that works)

Bill Belichick could break record for career losses before breaking record for career wins

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is closing in on the all-time record for regular-season and total wins in NFL history.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Another less than flattering (though fact-based) article this week about BB by click bait opportunist Florio/PFT.

As gleefully described by Florio, Bill is fast approaching Tom Landry's career loss record.
How did it end so quickly for the 64 yr old legend who spent 29 years as Dallas HC?

Retired 11 years after last SB Championship.
Retired 10 years after last NFC Championship appearance
0 playoffs wins in final 6 years (2 appearances)
0 playoff appearances in final 3 years
Final record in each of last 3 seasons:
7-9
7-8
3-13

Note: Landry never won a NFC Championship game once Staubach retired ('79)
(Funny how that works)

Bill Belichick could break record for career losses before breaking record for career wins

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is closing in on the all-time record for regular-season and total wins in NFL history.

www.nbcsports.com

Bill is not “bad” or different from almost any other dynasty NFL football coach.

Look at Halas’s splits post 1932 w/without Luckman, Brown without Graham, Lombardi without Starr, Noll without Bradshaw, pretty much anyone without X all-world QB.

I’m not advocating his firing simply because he isn’t winning championships with Mac Jones. I just think he’s lost it.

 

[Wozzy]

If Bill O'Brien arrived a season earlier, or Josh McD stayed a season longer... they very likely make the playoffs two years in a row. All the whining about 2022 and BB's inability to win without "he who shall not be named" would be gone.

Was it dumb to hire Patricia to run the offense... absolutely.

I don't know why they did, it may have been complete hubris on BB's part thinking they could do it by committee.

Kraft may have told BB to start considering his successor and Kraft may have wanted Obie in the building as heir apparent, Obie was committed to Alabama for one more season so Krafty told BB to make it work for a season.

We have no clue what led to the decision. If Obie takes over for BB in a year or two I'll assume the latter was the case, Obie was Kraft's chosen man. If that's the case Kraft will give BB plenty of time to get the all-time record. Obie is a Boston guy, has ties to the Krafts and knows it's a A+ organization... he might be willing to wait for the job.