Reid vs BB at developing QBs

[Pape]

I agree. I was just saying he's not going to have the same tenure with Mahomes as Belichick did with Brady. And I think between that, and the influx of quarterback talent in that Division and in the Conference, Mahomes is going to have a tough time. I think Reid as an offensive mind is underrated and I think he'll have a more difficult run when Reid can't do it anymore.

It's going to be interesting to see if Reid can keep the offensive cupboard stocked with guys like Kelce .. we've already have seen a drop off in the wr corps there... Can mahomie Brady up and make do with lesser talent that comes with drafting low year in year out?

 

[Real fan 02]

I agree as a pats fan. But as a neutral fan looking from outside , and say bill coaches us for another 2-3 seasons and doesn't make post season in any 3 , that's going to open up the can of worms . With hall of Fame QB every coach gets a high winning percentage. What do you do when you have middle tier or above average . I think Andy Reid with his pre Chiefs stint did have an impressive resume . Right now it's bill by a wide margin , but it wouldn't be preposterous to think that chiefs can win another couple in next 4 years and what that does to Andy's perception . His win totals are getting close to bill.

I totally get what you're saying and it's very sensible. The longevity and just how consistent we were with brady.. any Reid has had talented QBs and granted he did make the superbowl with McNabb.. what's so impressive to me is BB his rosters every season we're not say stacked with pro bowlers at every level.

Now I'll say I want to see how the next few seasons go.. the AFC is probably the most competitive it's been in decades.

As a coach I just believe it's him and we can put in any one else afterwards.

 

[Real fan 02]

The challenge he's going to have is the fact that the rest of the Conference is starting to improve and it's not quite as diluted talent-wise as it was just a couple of years ago. When you look at teams like Cincinnati, Buffalo, Baltimore, (heck, even Jacksonville) etc. each slowly starting to rise, they'll all present potential speed bumps during the regular season and also possibly even play the role of spoiler in January. Then add in potentially Vegas (with Garoppolo), the Chargers, and possibly Denver (if Payton can turn that around), and even within their division, it's going to be tough.

Mahomes is a solid player, but unless he dials it back and starts playing more within himself and stops putting himself in harm's way, the lack of longevity may also be what holds him back. I've said this before, but he and Reid connected at the wrong time for a long run. Belichick was a lot younger when Brady got here. Reid is 65 and isn't anywhere close to in the same shape as Belichick, so coaching later into his 70s doesn't feel as likely.

I've said before.. I don't believe Mahomes, Allen ,Jackson or burrow will not have the tenure Brady did. What Brady did is unreal playing that long. Winning with 2 different franchises.

Mahomes is likely to get another 2.. however I can't see any 1 QB getting 7 and Winning in the fashion Brady did.

 

[Real fan 02]

It's going to be interesting to see if Reid can keep the offensive cupboard stocked with guys like Kelce .. we've already have seen a drop off in the wr corps there... Can mahomie Brady up and make do with lesser talent that comes with drafting low year in year out?

Exactly! Brady got Givens, patten, brown,Edelman, Welker. He got all those guys paid! KCs most potent offense was when they had Kareem hunt, Tyreek on the outside. They were unstoppable then.

Now let's see what they can do with lesser talent.

 

[borg]

BB developed the best QB to have done it..

"developed" ?

How about "oversaw"

A two hour weekly meeting with the QBs now constitutes as "developed" ?

Charlie Weiss "developed" Brady in their 4 years together and help lay the foundation for Brady and his future.
Weiss taught, coached, drilled, and schemed Brady while Bill concentrated on D.
Then McDaniels took over the reigns and helped elevate Brady to uber status.

 

[Steve102]

"developed" ?

How about "oversaw"

A two hour weekly meeting with the QBs now constitutes as "developed" ?

Charlie Weiss "developed" Brady in their 4 years together and help lay the foundation for Brady and his future.
Weiss taught, coached, drilled, and schemed Brady while Bill concentrated on D.
Then McDaniels took over the reigns and helped elevate Brady to uber status.

So he was only coached by him for those two hours?

 

[Calhoun44]

"developed" ?

How about "oversaw"

A two hour weekly meeting with the QBs now constitutes as "developed" ?

Charlie Weiss "developed" Brady in their 4 years together and help lay the foundation for Brady and his future.
Weiss taught, coached, drilled, and schemed Brady while Bill concentrated on D.
Then McDaniels took over the reigns and helped elevate Brady to uber status.

I might be remembering it wrong, but wasn't BB the HC and the QB coach for Brady's first season?

 

[crawhammer]

The big put down on BB is he only did it with Brady. Yeah, so?

The yeah so part is he can't win without Brady... it's a legitimate narrative that'll stick until he proves otherwise. Who does he have to proves it too, you say? Me. Everyone else skeptical of IBWT. Or we're going to keep reminding you, right now we're up to 0-10, so it's not a small sample size.

Can Belichick add a non-Brady division title? Just one? I mean 17 of 18 with Brady and 0-10 without (0-5 if you want to just stick with NE). It's just not a good look regarding his legacy. I'm guessing 3 more seasons to do something about it.

Outside of Joe Gibbs and George Seifert, who has won multiple super bowls with more than one QB? Noll? Landry? Shula? Walsh? Lombardi? Shannahan?

Parcells.

 

[Real fan 02]

"developed" ?

How about "oversaw"

A two hour weekly meeting with the QBs now constitutes as "developed" ?

Charlie Weiss "developed" Brady in their 4 years together and help lay the foundation for Brady and his future.
Weiss taught, coached, drilled, and schemed Brady while Bill concentrated on D.
Then McDaniels took over the reigns and helped elevate Brady to uber status.

As I mentioned Yes DEVELOPED.. Brady even said this himself.. he credits BB for developing him into the QB he became..

Of course Brady put in the work and worked to become the player he was. However BB helped developed him.. coaching is part of developing.. as Andy Reid has done with Mahomes..

 

[crawhammer]

Reid is a better coach than Belichick. period.

At present this is true. Reid's the best head coach in the NFL right now. Ranking all 32 head coaches for the 2023 season... Belichick is middle of the pack at this point (or maybe rank 11-15).

 

[crawhammer]

IMO Mahomes could win 1 more but I don't think he'll win more than that. Winning SB's is really hard and there's a lot of really tough competition in the league now.

Anything less than 2 more for Mahomes will be a disappointment. He's that good, Reid's that good, everyone else around them is good enough... I say 2 more SB championships over the next 5 seasons. I have Mahomes retiring with 4 or 5 rings.

 

[crawhammer]

Kelce right now trump's Gronk as a TE in popular vote though he does not make it like a blocker.

Gronk would be the GOAT TE if Kelce retired today. But that's not happening and it's only a matter of time before Kelce assumes GOAT status. Too many injuries for Gronk, he missed too much time, and it's reflected in his final numbers. However, my answer to which TE would I want in their prime for one game?... it's Gronk.

 

[Calhoun44]

I swear people are obsessed with GOAT status. WTF cares? All I care about is that we currently have one of the best coaches in the league and one of the best all-time. Everybody will never agree 100% on who the absolute best is in any of these types of GOAT discussions. It is all based on opinion and each of us has our biases. My bias is clearly Boston players, but not unreasonable.
Basketball: Bill Russel
Hockey: Bobby Orr
Football: Tom Brady
Baseball: Don't have one.

 

[crawhammer]

I guess my point is Bill is a bit underrated I think in developing QB's.

How so? I'll give you an imposing list of trash quarterbacks to pass through Bill's fingers. If you want to say his contribution to developing the GOAT QB is reason enough for him to be underrated then I suppose you could go there but there really aren't any other QBs to point to.

 

[crawhammer]

Baseball: Don't have one.

Babe Ruth

 

[Steve102]

I swear people are obsessed with GOAT status. WTF cares? All I care about is that we currently have one of the best coaches in the league and one of the best all-time. Everybody will never agree 100% on who the absolute best is in any of these types of GOAT discussions. It is all based on opinion and each of us has our biases. My bias is clearly Boston players, but not unreasonable.
Basketball: Bill Russel
Hockey: Bobby Orr
Football: Tom Brady
Baseball: Don't have one.

No?

 

[Pape]

The yeah so part is he can't win without Brady... it's a legitimate narrative that'll stick until he proves otherwise. Who does he have to proves it too, you say? Me. Everyone else skeptical of IBWT. Or we're going to keep reminding you, right now we're up to 0-10, so it's not a small sample size.

Can Belichick add a non-Brady division title? Just one? I mean 17 of 18 with Brady and 0-10 without (0-5 if you want to just stick with NE). It's just not a good look regarding his legacy. I'm guessing 3 more seasons to do something about it.


Parcells.

Its not a legit criticism because its one of the rarest feats to pull off in the NFL... Its just a refuge for the Anti BB crowd to hide behind because otherwise the argument completely falls apart ...

 

[crawhammer]

Its not a legit criticism because its one of the rarest feats to pull off in the NFL...

Winning a division? Belichick wins the division 94% of the time with Brady in 18 years but 0% of the time without Brady in 10 years. On the other hand, Brady won 2 division titles and a SB championship in only 3 years without Belichick. What each has accomplished without the other is part of the story whether or not you want to address it.

 

[PatsFan2]

I agree. I was just saying he's not going to have the same tenure with Mahomes as Belichick did with Brady. And I think between that, and the influx of quarterback talent in that Division and in the Conference, Mahomes is going to have a tough time. I think Reid as an offensive mind is underrated and I think Mahomes will have a more difficult run when Reid can't do it anymore.

But he's in a Division with a lot of overreacted QB's Herbert heads that list...KC is still the Team to beat in the AFC yeah and Reid is Great HC/OC who can match wits with BB 24/7.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I think the Bucs dominating the Chiefs in the SB also is a strike against Reid in this argument. Had no answer for Brady/Gronk and also the Bucs defense who was all over a compromised Chiefs OL all game. No adjustments made. That really shouldn't have happened.

Game day adjustments has been Reid's Achilles heel throughout his career and the lack of adjustments. He is great at prepping the first 25 plays but way too many times his Eagles teams didn't make necessary adjustments to counter what the other team was doing.