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Matt Patricia no longer employed by the Pats.

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I dunno but taking your Super Bowl rings in on Day 1 of team meetings and flashing them around is tone deaf, at best.
He was hired by a failed franchise because of those rings. I guess you think belichick bringing a Lombardi to the night before Super Bowl meeting was “tone deaf”
See what happened when you judge without knowing anything?
 
He was hired by a failed franchise because of those rings. I guess you think belichick bringing a Lombardi to the night before Super Bowl meeting was “tone deaf”
See what happened when you judge without knowing anything?
That's not Day 1 of team meetings, is it?
 
So it’s tone deaf when you decide it’s tone deaf, based upon your agenda? Gotcha.
I can't help you if you can't see the difference between those two scenarios.
 
It's not my job to fill those positions. It's Bill's and he's extremely well paid for it. If he didn't have any ideas then shame on him, not on me or any of the other fans that pay the freight.

Fair enough. It's just odd to me when someone says they shouldn't have hired X rather than they should have hired Y. But that can work against both sides of the argument so point taken.

Give me an example of fans railing against a move by Bill that worked. This one didn't. Neither did 4th and 2 or benching Butler in the SB. He also took his players heads out of a playoff game vs the Jets when he benched Welker at the start of the game for making jokes.

Cutting Lawyer Milloy, not calling a timeout at the end of SB49, drafting Devin McCourty when Dez Bryant was still on the board are a few off the top of my head. But that's not even the point. In a 20 year career (with New England) you're going to find examples of good and bad decision making, it's inevitable. The point was that just because people don't like it, doesn't mean it's automatically the wrong call. And I cannot stress this enough: This one WAS the wrong call. I'm not arguing that.

It wasn't just McDaniels that Bill wasn't ready to replace. The same thing happened at other positions, only those were impact players and not merely coaches, all lost because of money.

See, this falls back into the fallacy of it being strictly about money. They don't lose good players because they don't want to pay them. They lose good players because they're operating under a salary cap and sometimes that means tough decisions. Yes, there are ways to move cap money around, but those are not like putting in a cheat code in a video game. There are limits to how much maneuvering you can do before the bill comes due, which leads me to...

From what I've read and heard, in real money spent the Pats are near the bottom of the league. And we have no idea how much Bill or any of the coaches are making. That works in keeping the criticism to the players and not the good old boys on the sideline.

I would love to see a source on this, because every report about this that I see is usually covering a small sample size (like three years or so). The way contracts are structured, money isn't paid out evenly over the course of a player's term. So there are going to be some years where actual cash spending is higher than the cap number, and vice versa. For example, a player signs a two year deal for 20 million, split up between a 12 million signing bonus then 4 mill per year in salary. You'll look at the first year and say, "Wow, they paid that guy $16million!" then the next year they're only "paying" him $4million. So when you look at "cash spending" in year two, it looks like they're cheaping out, when really they just paid a boatload upfront.

As a result of 53+ guys on a roster, all with contracts of varying values, lengths, and structures, the cash spending of a team is going to fluctuate wildly over whatever span of time you choose to sample. They spend up close to the cap every year, and despite what some may think, there is NO way to spend to the cap without eventually paying all of that money out, whether it be for players who are still here, or on dead money for players who have left. The bill always comes due. You can argue with how they use that money to structure the roster, and that's fair game. But they're not cheap and never have been.
 
Whenever I see this argument, I always say give me a name. Who would you have brought in for one year, that was available last year? Adam Gase? Promote Nick Caley who just had to take a lateral move to LA? Which young up and coming assistant coach would you have promoted from outside the organization? People always say, "Just get an OC!" but I never see anyone actually bring a name to the table.

The Patricia experiment failed. There's no arguing that. But it's not the first time BB has done something unconventional that people railed against that worked, so the whole "Everyone knew this was bad for the team" thing just doesn't hold water for me. It sucked, I'm glad it's over. But no one ever says who they should have brought in instead.

Now, where the REAL criticism that I agree with comes in: For whatever reason, they just were not prepared for McDaniels to leave with all the coaches he did. Maybe they liked Mick Lombardi as the OC in waiting, and read the tea leaves wrong on whether he'd jump ship with Josh. Maybe they completed whiffed on McDaniels himself, thinking he wasn't going to get a HC job this season. Whatever the reason, they were uncharacteristically flat footed on an OC succession plan, and it cost them.

But I'll never get behind the "they're just cheap" narrative. It never holds up when talking about players, and it doesn't make sense for the coaches either. Especially when we'd be talking about salary differences of about 500k.

So, the best available in the entire league for OC was an inexperienced defensive coach?
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They might have hired a position coach at almost any position (preferably OL) with the understanding that they would be acting OC, and that they might be coaching a different position in 2023. Surely, there was some position coach somewhere that Belichick might have chosen. It is not at all unusual for a coach to coach on position one year, and a different position the next.

So, I;n not suggesting that they should have found a top OC for a year. They should have hired a position coach, who would also acted as OC.
 
I'm sure he'll get on TV somewhere. He's a former head coach. But he should never be allowed to call an offense again, and it's questionable if he should be a DC again.
 
So, the best available in the entire league for OC was an inexperienced defensive coach?
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They might have hired a position coach at almost any position (preferably OL) with the understanding that they would be acting OC, and that they might be coaching a different position in 2023. Surely, there was some position coach somewhere that Belichick might have chosen. It is not at all unusual for a coach to coach on position one year, and a different position the next.

So, I;n not suggesting that they should have found a top OC for a year. They should have hired a position coach, who would also acted as OC.

This is a fair point, and one I conceded above as well. Bottom line, a LOT of people were skeptical about the move and were proven correct beyond the shadow of any doubt. I didn't think the idea was that outrageous at the time, and I was wrong. I'll admit that, and am ready to move on to 2023.
 
If it's true that B&B wanted to wait for BOB then they should have hired an actual OC. It's not like they can't afford it. Instead they went the cheap route and turned the season into a step backwards. Nobody in their right mind thinks that what they did was best for the team. What they did was best for their pocketbooks.

I don’t know whether it’s true or not, I just think it makes the most sense in explains what seems like an inexplicable decision.
 
So, the best available in the entire league for OC was an inexperienced defensive coach?
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……..
So, I;n not suggesting that they should have found a top OC for a year. They should have hired a position coach, who would also acted as OC.

I think what no one considered about the MP hire was that BB didn’t want to change the offensive system. Any ‘NAME’ OC he could have brought in at the time McDaniels left would have radically changed away from EP.

When McDaniels raided the refrigerator; BB had to go to the freezer to find someone who would stay w the system. MP never thawed out and now in a new year BoB is fresh meat for the offense. AND he is familiar in the same general system.
 
I think what no one considered about the MP hire was that BB didn’t want to change the offensive system. Any ‘NAME’ OC he could have brought in at the time McDaniels left would have radically changed away from EP.

When McDaniels raided the refrigerator; BB had to go to the freezer to find someone who would stay w the system. MP never thawed out and now in a new year BoB is fresh meat for the offense. AND he is familiar in the same general system.
They did change the system. That's what made putting Fat Matt and Judge in charge of rolling it out and adoption so mystifying.

If they didn't want to change it they would have promoted Caley but for multiple reasons they didn't.
 
Go get your gun, and go back to hiding under your bed. Black kids could be playing somewhere close by, and that must be terrifying for you.

Guess I missed a of this exchange, not sure how gun ownership is relevant
 
So is Patricia still with the Pats or not?

And what is the deal with Mayo?
 
There's really people that believe that Bills only option last year was to hire two guys who have NO EXPERIENCE in offense to overhaul the offense and learn on the job?

Patricia was only hired because he's bills buddy and was getting paid by the lions. ANYONE with an ounce of offensive acumen would be better.

I think there's posters who just don't want to admit that Bill made a Jets/browns/lions type decision.
 
They did change the system. That's what made putting Fat Matt and Judge in charge of rolling it out and adoption so mystifying.

If they didn't want to change it they would have promoted Caley but for multiple reasons they didn't.

It does appear as though they sat in a conference room, came up with a new offensive plan, and mistakenly thought it would work. On the other hand, that seems unlike BB so it is all very odd.

Patricia is smart and I think he works well behind another guy, like BB or Payton. Not sure Patricia should he out in front leading. Not Judge leading either.
 
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