The future of Matt Patricia

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't get this notion that Kraft is cheap. Is this just some coded thing that people say for a certain reason? When has he cheaped out in his stint as an owner? He is constantly upgrading the stadium and has built a mall around the place. Bill in all likelihood is the highest paid coach in the league and we have never heard a word about Kraft not paying up for a player that Bill wanted. I think it is Bill that is cheap and Bill that likes to send his little "F U's" to the league by getting cute with not naming coordinators or posing for the group photos at the coaches meetings. Bill is the one who manages the cap so you cant blame Kraft if a player walks. Kraft all but said when Brady left it wasn't about money as he would have paid him whatever he wanted but he left it up to Bill.

Yes, I didn't love the fact Kraft caved to the other 31 and basically laid down over the whole deflategate nonsense with Brady and yes, the massage parlor thing was embarrassing but as far as I am concerned Kraft is one of the best, if not the best, owner in the league.

Fair comments.

Are you considering that different types of investments have different financing considerations? Rebuilding the stadium can be paid back over multiple years, low interest rates, tax break considerations, and increases the value of the team. Paying coaches has none of those benefits - paying coaches is money directly out of Kraft's pocket with no way to ever recover it. People see Krafts Patriots planes and think that is a lot of money (which it is). But again, Kraft buys the planes used, saves chartering private jets, can depreciate, long term low interest loan, etcetera. There are loopholes for these type of large capital expenditures that make them complete different than other types of investments.

Kraft spends to the salary cap limit so he is not super cheap like some suggest, but historically the Pats have spent less on coaching than other teams. Something that happens consistently over years is at the owners request. If Kraft told BB to hire more staff that would happen.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Well…at least Belichick went against the grain again.

 

[Pape]

Arrogance is the only explanation for thinking you could succeed with a DC with no offensive experience calling plays on offense.

i dont think you actually know what arrogance is then.

 

[turkeyneck]

I’d agree, but would also point out that screaming matches probably occur very frequently behind the scenes. In this instance, the source of the screaming internally lies at BB’s feet. That’s what happens when you try to ram a square peg through a round hole, then allow said peg to change the offense’s terminology, simplify things, and then have that square peg split duties with another square peg which only served to create mass confusion. Given that article, I don’t know if I would toss out Judge before giving him the STC position again. The coverage units were an absolute mess this season, and Judge has been undoubtedly good in that role.

I'm thinking he's gone because it appears he was the nexus of the bad blood in the lockerroom. If BB wants to clear the air and restore a goal oriented focus to the team as a whole I don't think JJ can be allowed to linger. It's what's best for the team.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm thinking he's gone because it appears he was the nexus of the bad blood in the lockerroom. If BB wants to clear the air and restore a goal oriented focus to the team as a whole I don't think JJ can be allowed to linger. It's what's best for the team.

Ehhhh, I don’t know about that. The buck stops with Bill. If he had committed to naming one of the two as the de-facto OC, the confusion probably doesn’t permeate. The offense would have still been a mess because Patricia wasn’t cut out for the job, but a source of tension would have been erased.

 

[turkeyneck]

Ehhhh, I don’t know about that. The buck stops with Bill. If he had committed to naming one of the two as the de-facto OC, the confusion probably doesn’t permeate. The offense would have still been a mess because Patricia wasn’t cut out for the job, but a source of tension would have been erased.

I take from the article that this extends beyond just confusion. That may have been the spark but it sounds like there is deep conflict between personalities. I don't know if that can be quelled without someone leaving.

 

[203Pat]

Fair comments.

Are you considering that different types of investments have different financing considerations? Rebuilding the stadium can be paid back over multiple years, low interest rates, tax break considerations, and increases the value of the team. Paying coaches has none of those benefits - paying coaches is money directly out of Kraft's pocket with no way to ever recover it. People see Krafts Patriots planes and think that is a lot of money (which it is). But again, Kraft buys the planes used, saves chartering private jets, can depreciate, long term low interest loan, etcetera. There are loopholes for these type of large capital expenditures that make them complete different than other types of investments.

Kraft spends to the salary cap limit so he is not super cheap like some suggest, but historically the Pats have spent less on coaching than other teams. Something that happens consistently over years is at the owners request. If Kraft told BB to hire more staff that would happen.

I agree that rich people spend money differently than your average person and I get that but Kraft didn't take tax payer dollars to build Gillette the way so many owners do. He has also donated those team planes for some great causes over the last few years and puts tons of money back into the community. When I was in Tampa I got to see first hand what bad owners were. The Glazers were cheap and treated the Bucs like a tax write off since they owned Manchester United they didn't really seem to invest much in the Bucs. Sure they would waste money on big name free agents like a lot of teams do but they hardly put a penny into Raymond James. That stadium didn't even have an HD video board up until a few years ago and constantly had MRSA infections in their training room for a few years. They also paid their non-football employees at the lowest end of the league average and would fill out a lot of the low level staff with unpaid interns and contract workers.

 

[203Pat]

i dont think you actually know what arrogance is then.

So then tell me the logic behind Patrica as OC?

 

[Kontradiction]

I take from the article that this extends beyond just confusion. That may have been the spark but it sounds like there is deep conflict between personalities. I don't know if that can be quelled without someone leaving.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to matter anyway. Achord is going to the East-West Shrine game.

 

[turkeyneck]

Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to matter anyway. Achord is going to the East-West Shrine game.

One way?

 

[Kontradiction]

One way?

Given the coverage units last year, the only one way ticket I would buy for him is to Yemen, Ukraine, or North Korea.

 

[venecol]

Arrogance? that's more than a bit presumptuous, don't you think? Is it arrogance that lead him to state "if it doesn't work out, blame me"?

Yes, because he said that in response to questions by the media about Judge and Patricia taking lead roles on his offensive staff. There was an overwhelming amount of outsiders questioning his decision. Failure to listen and receive feedback, or decision-making motivated by self-interest are traits of arrogance.

He tried something new. It did not work. That's not arrogance. That's him trying to be innovative, using the skills and assets he had on hand... The problem was the assets on hand didn't have the expertise to execute the plan.

Of course it is. Your bolded part says it all. Bill thought he knew more than others despite the overwhelming evidence that having staff to implement a new scheme they had no experience in was not going to work. That is the clear definition of arrogance.

But I get it... You gotta get your Anti-Belichick digs in early and often

“Look, I’m the head coach,” Belichick said. “Ultimately, I’m responsible for everything.”

Holding Bill accountable for his f*ck up isn't being anti-Belichick.

 

[Pape]

So then tell me the logic behind Patrica as OC?

Using an asset he trusted? would be my guess...

I disagreed with the move early on... But just because I didn't like it, because I thought Patricia in a dual role (OC/OL) was not a good idea does not make it arrogance on Bills part... Making a statement like that is quite literally a stab at Belichick... And considering the people making the claim are securely on the anti-belichick side of the coin, well... I'll let you finish the rest of that sentence...

Maybe its pretty arrogant to assume you know Belichick thought process, that you've sussed out his logic, no?

 

[203Pat]

Using an asset he trusted? would be my guess...

I disagreed with the move early on... But just because I didn't like it, because I thought Patricia in a dual role (OC/OL) was not a good idea does not make it arrogance on Bills part... Making a statement like that is quite literally a stab at Belichick... And considering the people making the claim are securely on the anti-belichick side of the coin, well... I'll let you finish the rest of that sentence...

Maybe its pretty arrogant to assume you know Belichick thought process, that you've sussed out his logic, no?

My CPA is a "trusted asset" when it comes to doing my taxes but would I trust him to be my personal trainer? I'd rather be labeled as anti-Belichick than blindly defend terrible decisions. Patricia as OC was a flat out decision and by all accounts BOB would have came back last year but Bill didn't want to piss off Saban. It seems the thought was "patch it together" in 2022 and see what happens. Seems like an arrogant decision to me to throw away a season to not piss off your friend.

 

[Pape]

My CPA is a "trusted asset" when it comes to doing my taxes but would I trust him to be my personal trainer? I'd rather be labeled as anti-Belichick than blindly defend terrible decisions. Patricia as OC was a flat out decision and by all accounts BOB would have came back last year but Bill didn't want to piss off Saban. It seems the thought was "patch it together" in 2022 and see what happens. Seems like an arrogant decision to me to throw away a season to not piss off your friend.

yeah, i don't need your bogus strawman arguments, so spare me the hyperbole.

Interesting point in there though... Bill didnt want to piss off Saban... didn't want to hurt an active and ongoing personal and professional relationship... huh, really sounds like the move of an arrogant person, doesn't it?

So whats your point besides you hate Belichick?

 

[upstater1]

A few things in that article made me think that source was a player. An offensive player at that. Clearly Judge and Patricia had a level of dysfunction. I think even Belichick spoke to problems with the offense during the season. But a player who is disgruntled is also liable to say all sorts of things.

 

[203Pat]

yeah, i don't need your bogus strawman arguments, so spare me the hyperbole.

Interesting point in there though... Bill didnt want to piss off Saban... didn't want to hurt an active and ongoing personal and professional relationship... huh, really sounds like the move of an arrogant person, doesn't it?

So whats your point besides you hate Belichick?

Yes it is because it flies in the face of Bill's "I will do what's in the best interest of the team". It is arrogant because it is Bill valuing his personal relationships over what is best for the team. Similar to when we allegedly had multiple first round picks offered from the Browns but Bill wanted to do his friend's kid, and Jimmy Garopollo, a favor and send him to a better organization for a second.

So what is your point besides blindly defending Bill no matter how stupid the decision?

 

[PatsFan2]

One's things for certain Kendrick Bourne knew that Fat Matt didn't know what hell he was doing and BB didn't back Bourne up. That explains his pedestrian numbers in that ridiculous Offense: everybody gets a pass including Mac. Now get Klemm onboard to run the OL and Blocking schemes.

 

[Pape]

Yes it is because it flies in the face of Bill's "I will do what's in the best interest of the team". It is arrogant because it is Bill valuing his personal relationships over what is best for the team. Similar to when we allegedly had multiple first round picks offered from the Browns but Bill wanted to do his friend's kid, and Jimmy Garopollo, a favor and send him to a better organization for a second.

So what is your point besides blindly defending Bill no matter how stupid the decision?

so its your supposition that keeping and maintaining working relationships isnt in the best interests of the team? Isnt honoring those types of relationships how we got BoB back? Didnt Obrien say, after he was fired in Houston, you find out quickly who your friends are? Yeah I think he did... So theres more to decision making than your little black and white morality play indicates

So, Im not defending Bill and his stupid decisions. Have said that multiple times now in multiple posts in multiple threads... Guess you only read what you want to read... I took issue with Venecol and his persistent "arrogant" commentaries on Bill...

Not sure what you have to do with it... I guess maybe you are trying to be his white knight? Venecol is a smart guy, he doesn't need it...

 

[203Pat]

so its your supposition that keeping and maintaining working relationships isnt in the best interests of the team? Isnt honoring those types of relationships how we got BoB back? Didnt Obrien say, after he was fired in Houston, you find out quickly who your friends are? Yeah I think he did... So theres more to decision making than your little black and white morality play indicates

So, Im not defending Bill and his stupid decisions. Have said that multiple times now in multiple posts in multiple threads... Guess you only read what you want to read... I took issue with Venecol and his persistent "arrogant" commentaries on Bill...

Not sure what you have to do with it... I guess maybe you are trying to be his white knight? Venecol is a smart guy, he doesn't need it...

Sorry but trying to tell me that having to see what we did this season was worth it to keep open the information pipeline on a school with prospects literally every coach and scout in the country knows top to bottom is ridiculous.

As far as Venecol our thoughts on this topic seem to align. Does that offend you? Does two people telling you you're wrong make you more upset? Generally when you say something on a forum someone disagrees with they respond. That is how these things work.