Kyle Shanahan: no guarantee Jimmy G will be on roster on Sunday

[50-yard-line]

And they're off!

 

[mgcolby]

ya, I have moved on from Jimmy G. I think BB drafts a QB in the 3rd or 4th rd. Mond/Mills/Trask is my bet

You and I and many have moved on from Jimmy but I am not so sure BB has. I just see my scenario as one of many possibilities, and one I could see being in line with BB's thinking.
I get the guy I wanted here all along. It cost me a 2nd, I get a top 10 player at 15 because of the QB run in the top 10 and still get one of the guys I was probably going to draft in the 2nd or 3rd round any way(specifically one of the 3 you mentioned).

And I still have all my future ones if it doesn't work out. Makes sense to me and seems like BB typical line of thinking. Give yourself a chance to win now without sacrificing the future.

With that said after the FA period we had, I could also see him saying we signed a bunch of 26-28 year old kids I expect to be here for the next three plus years. So I am willing to part with a future one or two but for the right player.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Can we trade for Lock then please.

 

[mgcolby]

That would be a disaster. This would be cam Newton’s team for the next 3 years and we will not see a playoff game.
At least Jimmy can provide hope that maybe he might stay healthy and play well in one of those years.
There has never been a more classic example of a team that needs to trade up and get their QB than the 2021 Patriots.

But you don't trade up just for the sake of trading up for a QB. That makes zero sense. You trade up for a QB you are extremely confidant is the QB of the future and the guy you like. You do not trade up to get the 4th or 5th QB off the board just because you need a QB. That is what **** teams do.
Because when or if that QB shows he is not the man, then in a year or two a lot of the guys who think like this, yourself maybe, will be *****ing about BB ****ing up and giving up the future of the franchise for a bust.

Like I said I am in the draft a QB camp. But only support moving up for a guy who may slip that they feel is good enough to be the future and who they feel may be better than two or three of the guys drafted in front of him. If not get a guy who may not have the hype in the 2nd or 3rd again Monds, Mills or Trask. I mean **** it wasn't but a month ago Trask was being talked about as a top 10 pick and Jones was the mid-1st to 2nd. Now he is suddenly considered to be the leading candidate as the 3rd pick.

No one knows how these teams feel about these QB's except the teams themselves.

Kind of reminds me of when C's had the 1st pick in the draft. Danny knew either way he was taking Tatum. Ball was going 2nd and Philly wanted the PG whatever his name is. He swindled there asses and still got the guy at 3 that he would have taken at 1. The Pats might have Fields as the no.2 or Lance or Jones etc.. we simply do not know. And if that guy is there at 7 or 10 and it doesn't cost you the farm to move up and get that guy then do it. But if that guy is not there is it worth giving up the farm to go get a kid that you have grouped with Monds, Trask and Mills for example? No.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't disagree with you but risking a 2nd on a guy that knows the system and the building, who if healthy is a SB caliber QB, is not a big risk. Low cost big upside.

Especially when you add in Cam and a developmental guy in the 2nd or 3rd. It protects your future picks if it doesn't work out. It didn't cost you a single future 1st to move up for an unproven guy that may or may not be able to play in the league etc...the more I think about the bigger no brainer it becomes.

If he is injured then we are right where we most likely would have been irregardless if we traded for him or not. Cam, Stid and a 2nd or 3rd QB. I am not really buying BB packaging a bunch of 1st round picks to move up and get the 4th or 5th QB off the board.

Right back to where we are is not a good place.
I understand the risk/reward but qb is different than any other position. If you commit to Jimmy G and his injury concerns are legit, you’ve taken a big step backward because you didn’t fix the QB position.
The qb position is in shambles right now. Fixing it by taking a shot at a guy who everything suggests doesn’t have the grit to stay on the field is patching a hole rather than fixing a problem, a major problem.

What I don’t understand is why we are looking at the most important position on the field and trying to scam a way to fix it by taking a bunch of damaged goods and hoping.
Why wouldn’t we commit the most assets to the most important position?
If you get the right QB and it costs you next years 1, so what? You will have a qb on a rookie contract and can replace the puck with a free agent.

Fixing qb and giving up picks to do it, makes you a better football team than using the picks in other players and not fixing qb.

Hoping for cast offs, reclamations, or late round picks to fix the QB position is a bad plan. Let’s do that with whatever position you think the traded draft pick would give been used on.

 

[Brotherblues]

No guarantee that I will not be an eunuch on Sunday....

Man you made me reflexively hold my stuff and strike a very non-threatening pose for a second there.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

oh wow, guess my jg hopes are through

 

[Ring 6]

He was put on IR in November - which meant three games out, at the least. By the time he was scheduled to come back, SF's season was essentially over at 5-8, Kittle was out (and they kept him out the rest of the year, as well, even though he was cleared by the doctors). Also, a high ankle sprain is typically a 3-6 week injury, but can last for months.

Not sure last year was on Garoppolo and not on Lynch/Shanahan protecting their assets. 2020 was weird.

Wait, you think they were protecting the guy they have decided they don’t want?
Why would they do that? If they wanted to trade him they wouldn’t not let him okay when his stock was at its lowest and create questions about his toughness.
And he missed 2 games, came back and played 4 more, didn’t suffer a new injury and was abysmal and then sat out the last half of the season.
Conspiracy theories are usually wrong.

 

[mgcolby]

Right back to where we are is not a good place.
I understand the risk/reward but qb is different than any other position. If you commit to Jimmy G and his injury concerns are legit, you’ve taken a big step backward because you didn’t fix the QB position.
The qb position is in shambles right now. Fixing it by taking a shot at a guy who everything suggests doesn’t have the grit to stay on the field is patching a hole rather than fixing a problem, a major problem.

What I don’t understand is why we are looking at the most important position on the field and trying to scam a way to fix it by taking a bunch of damaged goods and hoping.
Why wouldn’t we commit the most assets to the most important position?
If you get the right QB and it costs you next years 1, so what? You will have a qb on a rookie contract and can replace the puck with a free agent.

Fixing qb and giving up picks to do it, makes you a better football team than using the picks in other players and not fixing qb.

Hoping for cast offs, reclamations, or late round picks to fix the QB position is a bad plan. Let’s do that with whatever position you think the traded draft pick would give been used on.

I don't think we are far off in our thinking here. I am with you giving up future picks is the answer if they truly believe that guy is it. Now unless this in the 2nd coming of the 1984 draft then odds are only one maybe two of these QB's play long term in the NFL as a starter.

Where I think our biggest disconnect is how much of set back not fixing the QB situation or not getting right sets us back.

Trading for Jimmy, if that is all they did to address the situation would only set us back a year or basically keep us where would be next year with Cam anyway, assuming he gets hurt again. But it didn't cost us assets to use to move up next year if again there is a QB they think is a game changer.

Where we differ is just throwing a bunch of picks at the problem is suddenly the answer. It is not, I am not saying it can't be in the right situation, but it a lone is not the cure all.

What I am saying is basically this. If the guy they think is the future of the franchise and he is available and a trade can be made to go up and get the guy then do it. But at the same time you don't trade your next 2 or 3 first round picks to do so. If that guy is not there then don't panic and make pressed decision to move up for the 4th or 5th guy that is probably around the same level as upper 2nd tier. That is when you go trade for a Jimmy or Mariota or whoever to compete with Cam and draft that upper 2nd tier guy and see what he turns into.

One thing I think most of us forget myself included, and don't get me wrong watching 16 more games or 17 now of Cam at QB is about as appealing as watching my parents have sex...but we did manage to win 7 games with him at QB with a terrible roster. So I don't think the team is doomed per se with him at QB but they sure are not going to the SB without some miracle.

A healthy Jimmy and I know that is a big if, is capable of making a SB run with this roster. Again I think we are on the same page for the most part other than you really do not want Jimmy back at any cost. Which I understand. Not a big fan myself for the same reasons. And you are willing to throw 2 or 3 first round picks at the QB position to move up just for the sake of doing so really. Which of course I am not. As stated I am willing to give one maybe 2 if it's the guy they would have taken were they sitting at 2 behind Jax. Other than that do the best you can for 2021 and if works out great if not repeat the process next year.

 

[Ring 6]

But you don't trade up just for the sake of trading up for a QB. That makes zero sense.

[/QUOTE]

ni you trade up because there are talented QBs to trade up for.

You trade up for a QB you are extremely confidant is the QB of the future and the guy you like. You do not trade up to get the 4th or 5th QB off the board just because you need a QB. That is what **** teams do.

if you did absolutely nothing else to fix the qb spot, which is the worst in the NFL you have left yourself no choice.
You trade up to where you get a quality qb.
No, ****ty teams ignore a mess at qb.

Because when or if that QB shows he is not the man, then in a year or two a lot of the guys who think like this, yourself maybe, will be *****ing about BB ****ing up and giving up the future of the franchise for a bust.

so your argument is never get a good QBs?
If you don’t have a system, coaching staff and teams surrounding a talent like you would get from trading up to prevent him from being a bust then it doesn’t matter what you do.
Tell me how many QBs have been drafted into a situation similar to what we have with coaching, scheme, quality of roster, esp those players that affect a young qb, and busted?

Like I said I am in the draft a QB camp. But only support moving up for a guy who may slip that they feel is good enough to be the future and who they feel may be better than two or three of the guys drafted in front of him. If not get a guy who may not have the hype in the 2nd or 3rd again Monds, Mills or Trask. I mean **** it wasn't but a month ago Trask was being talked about as a top 10 pick and Jones was the mid-1st to 2nd. Now he is suddenly considered to be the leading candidate as the 3rd pick.

QBs drafted in the second round or later, especially recently, are where you find busts. Trask is not close to a top 10 talent. The drop off is enormous.

No one knows how these teams feel about these QB's except the teams themselves.

Kind of reminds me of when C's had the 1st pick in the draft. Danny knew either way he was taking Tatum. Ball was going 2nd and Philly wanted the PG whatever his name is. He swindled there asses and still got the guy at 3 that he would have taken at 1. The Pats might have Fields as the no.2 or Lance or Jones etc.. we simply do not know. And if that guy is there at 7 or 10 and it doesn't cost you the farm to move up and get that guy then do it. But if that guy is not there is it worth giving up the farm to go get a kid that you have grouped with Monds, Trask and Mills for example? No.

That makes no sense. You are assuming that the guy they trade up for would be the same as the guy they could take in round 2 or 3. That isn’t right.
Of course if you think one of those guys isn’t worthy then you don’t trade up. Who implies otherwise? I am saying they are and whichever ones they think can be an effective starting nfl QBs in this system with this coaching they have to do whatever it takes to go get them.
shanahan who belichick respects a lot says all 5 are worthy.
We went into this off season with a gaping hole at the most important position. We spent free agency putting lipstick on the pig and ignoring what is both the most important position and our weakest position by far.
If we aren’t going to trade up to fix it, what in the world are we doing and how long will it be before we figure it out so we can win again?

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think we are far off in our thinking here. I am with you giving up future picks is the answer if they truly believe that guy is it. Now unless this in the 2nd coming of the 1984 draft then odds are only one maybe two of these QB's play long term in the NFL as a starter.

Where I think our biggest disconnect is how much of set back not fixing the QB situation or not getting right sets us back.

Trading for Jimmy, if that is all they did to address the situation would only set us back a year or basically keep us where would be next year with Cam anyway, assuming he gets hurt again. But it didn't cost us assets to use to move up next year if again there is a QB they think is a game changer.

Where we differ is just throwing a bunch of picks at the problem is suddenly the answer. It is not, I am not saying it can't be in the right situation, but it a lone is not the cure all.

What I am saying is basically this. If the guy they think is the future of the franchise and he is available and a trade can be made to go up and get the guy then do it. But at the same time you don't trade your next 2 or 3 first round picks to do so. If that guy is not there then don't panic and make pressed decision to move up for the 4th or 5th guy that is probably around the same level as upper 2nd tier. That is when you go trade for a Jimmy or Mariota or whoever to compete with Cam and draft that upper 2nd tier guy and see what he turns into.

One thing I think most of us forget myself included, and don't get me wrong watching 16 more games or 17 now of Cam at QB is about as appealing as watching my parents have sex...but we did manage to win 7 games with him at QB with a terrible roster. So I don't think the team is doomed per se with him at QB but they sure are not going to the SB without some miracle.

A healthy Jimmy and I know that is a big if, is capable of making a SB run with this roster. Again I think we are on the same page for the most part other than you really do not want Jimmy back at any cost. Which I understand. Not a big fan myself for the same reasons. And you are willing to throw 2 or 3 first round picks at the QB position to move up just for the sake of doing so really. Which of course I am not. As stated I am willing to give one maybe 2 if it's the guy they would have taken were they sitting at 2 behind Jax. Other than that do the best you can for 2021 and if works out great if not repeat the process next year.

The step back is the opportunity lost.

If we won’t do what has to be done this year, why would we do it next year?

Fix the most important position with a stud not with spit bailing wire and chewing gum.

Everyone afraid of making a bold move keeps guessing at how many QBs will
bust and cite other busts.

but tell me what highly regarded qb prospect ever came into a situation like this one would and failed?
Fear to make a move to get greatness results in mediocrity.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Right back to where we are is not a good place.
I understand the risk/reward but qb is different than any other position. If you commit to Jimmy G and his injury concerns are legit, you’ve taken a big step backward because you didn’t fix the QB position.
The qb position is in shambles right now. Fixing it by taking a shot at a guy who everything suggests doesn’t have the grit to stay on the field is patching a hole rather than fixing a problem, a major problem.

What I don’t understand is why we are looking at the most important position on the field and trying to scam a way to fix it by taking a bunch of damaged goods and hoping.
Why wouldn’t we commit the most assets to the most important position?
If you get the right QB and it costs you next years 1, so what? You will have a qb on a rookie contract and can replace the puck with a free agent.

Fixing qb and giving up picks to do it, makes you a better football team than using the picks in other players and not fixing qb.

Hoping for cast offs, reclamations, or late round picks to fix the QB position is a bad plan. Let’s do that with whatever position you think the traded draft pick would give been used on.

So what happens when "we" expend tons of draft capital on this QB you want so desperately and the guy is not "legit"?

That's not a "step backward"?

How do "we" recover, then? Who do "we" scam?

You are a good contributor but basically you have about 7 million posts of variations that Cam is a disaster because he sucked last year (with absolute zero reflection on why exactly that was) or Jimmy G sucked because he was hurt (with absolute zero reflection on how that can be rectified) and willingly will give up the next 42 drafts to get a QB that absent confirmation from Nostradamus, isn't exactly clear will pan out.

....or maybe I missed something.

 

[Ring 6]

So what happens when "we" expend tons of draft capital on this QB you want so desperately and the guy is not "legit"?

That's not a "step backward"?

How do "we" recover, then? Who do "we" scam?

You are a good contributor but basically you have about 7 million posts of variations that Cam is a disaster because he sucked last year (with absolute zero reflection on why exactly that was) or Jimmy G sucked because he was hurt (with absolute zero reflection on how that can be rectified) and willingly will give up the next 42 drafts to get a QB that absent confirmation from Nostradamus, isn't exactly clear will pan out.

....or maybe I missed something.

if you put thought into this instead of buzz words we would probably agree.

Cam sucked and anyone with a brain saw that.
I didn’t say Jimmy G sucked I said that he cannot stay on the field.
There are 5 excellent QB prospects in the draft.
This team is built to run with a rookie. It is the coaching staffjob to develop the player.
Answer these questions.

What QBs prospect that was a consensus top 5-10 pick was drafted into a situation resembling what we have here now and failed?

What QBs had Jimmy G like injury and toughness questions and overcame them?

what QBs were as god awful as newton was last year and got appreciably better?

 

[Bill Lee]

You are a good contributor but basically you have about 7 million posts of variations that Cam is a disaster because he sucked last year (with absolute zero reflection on why exactly that was) or Jimmy G sucked because he was hurt (with absolute zero reflection on how that can be rectified) and willingly will give up the next 42 drafts to get a QB that absent confirmation from Nostradamus, isn't exactly clear will pan out.

....or maybe I missed something.

Meanwhile, we get seven pages of posts from people being triggered by a statement that equates to "nothing in life is certain".

 

[Ring 6]

So what happens when "we" expend tons of draft capital on this QB you want so desperately and the guy is not "legit"?

That's not a "step backward"?

How do "we" recover, then? Who do "we" scam?

You are a good contributor but basically you have about 7 million posts of variations that Cam is a disaster because he sucked last year (with absolute zero reflection on why exactly that was) or Jimmy G sucked because he was hurt (with absolute zero reflection on how that can be rectified) and willingly will give up the next 42 drafts to get a QB that absent confirmation from Nostradamus, isn't exactly clear will pan out.

....or maybe I missed something.

And....

I watched every snap that Newton played. The reflection on why he sucked is that he has horrible awareness, decision making, concept of timing in the passing game and accuracy.

Jimmy G is injury prone. He has been since he has been in the league. Last year an injury that most QBs play through had him miss 10 games. There is a huge risk that he will not be available. There is no way to rectify that.

I did not say trade 42 drafts, I said trade what the going price is to move up to where we have to get the guy.

 

[mgcolby]

If we won’t do what has to be done this year, why would we do it next year?

Fix the most important position with a stud not with spit bailing wire and chewing gum.

Everyone afraid of making a bold move keeps guessing at how many QBs will
bust and cite other busts.

but tell me what highly regarded qb prospect ever came into a situation like this one would and failed?
Fear to make a move to get greatness results in mediocrity.

I will respond to both your posts with this answer because this conversation is going in circles. The biggest problem with your argument is that you assume, or are making the assumption based off what you have said; that the QB they trade multiple picks to move up for will guarantee we fixed the position. That is a major fallacy.

The drop off from Mac Jones for example to Trask, Monds or Mills is not enormous. Mac and Trask are almost the same guy except Trask can move.

I think the current QB market is aiking to the current housing market. People are making really bad decisions buying houses that are way overpriced, simply because they want to buy a house or are finally ready to buy a house. So instead of waiting, they settle for a house. Then offer way more than it's worth and in a year or two from now when the correction or god forbid a crash occurs they will be upside down on a house they really didn't want in the first place.

 

[50-yard-line]

Wait, you think they were protecting the guy they have decided they don’t want?
Why would they do that? If they wanted to trade him they wouldn’t not let him okay when his stock was at its lowest and create questions about his toughness.
And he missed 2 games, came back and played 4 more, didn’t suffer a new injury and was abysmal and then sat out the last half of the season.
Conspiracy theories are usually wrong.

I think maybe they knew they knew the season was shot, so they wanted to see what was behind Garoppolo as they went into his "cuttable" years. Was Rosen salvageable, for example? They were protecting Kittle, certainly.

It's not a conspiracy theory.

 

[mgcolby]

oh wow, guess my jg hopes are through

He still has a no trade clause.

 

[rochrist]

ya, I have moved on from Jimmy G. I think BB drafts a QB in the 3rd or 4th rd. Mond/Mills/Trask is my bet

God, I hope it isn't Trask.

 

[RIpats88]

And they're off!

This guy is a hack. Almost all the rumors he has posted are wrong. He said niners were definitely getting stafford a couple months ago per his sources