Belichick criticism mega-thread

[venecol]

My feelings are that BB helped re-enforce Brady's leadership abilities and made him a better leader than he would have been under most coaches. After all most times leadership abilities is the number one characteristic that BB looks for in a player. This is the main reason why I think BB and Brady's relationship was a symbiotic relationship and they both benefitted in different ways through it. No one was more responsible for the dynasty, but at different stages it only seemed out of balance, but it always was equally balanced. The only exception is probably at the very end, when Brady rightfully got impatient because he realized his career is winding down and the Patriots would need to rebuild.

I agree with all of that but my point wasn't about the past but the future.

It's hard to believe Bill can recreate the "winning" ways with an average QB. Bill was lucky to have Tom for 20 years. He was a young 48 when Brady (23) threw his first pass. For example, Reid (63) may only get 10 years with Mahomes assuming they stay together.

With Tom gone, the team has no leader to "inspire" and to set an example for doing things the Patriots Way. Slater, McC, and High are great team leaders but they're not the franchise QB. That "it" the team had is gone.

When people want to pretend that Tom is just another player that Bill can replace with an avg guy that he can coach up, I'm out. It's not happening.

 

[Hyped]

Simms was a very good quarterback for his era, and I highly doubt Hostetler would have led that team to the 1990 NFCCG; in addition, they really lucked out with the Montana injury.

Nice post, but to nitpick a bit....I think Hostetler would have been competitive. He was pretty good with the Raiders for a couple of years...great connection with Tim Brown on Sundays....when I lived in L.A. those years....

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think BB will do what he has always done.

When he has cap space, he shops at Macy's, Neiman Marcus and Saks 5th Ave. He may look for the 10% off sales but he'll shop there.

When he doesn't he goes to Target and Wal-Mart

Bill definitely checks out Trader Joe's, Savers and Ocean State Job Lot too.

He also tends to send his new quarterbacks coach to Michigan to scout the kid nobody else is interested in at all who did terrible at the combine.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

not to belabor the point but..EVERY game is "in reach" until it isn't. I admire your optimism. Myself, having already given Rucci and Lane the benefit of the doubt all season, I was past done with the two sluggards by the Super Bowl and went into that game pessimistic as I've ever been The twin doofi did not disappoint. You do realize that Drewpy got both those stiffs the biggest O line contracts in guaranteed money in Patriot history. Think about this....after that Super Bowl, the twin stiffs were cut and NEVER picked up by any other NFL team.Rucci in 1999 Lane in 2000.I still bristle at their memory. Friggin' Drewpy's "buddies". No wonder BB cleaned house and started Brady when he took over

All part of the DrewMania Parcells left behind.

Bledsoe WAS good. Physically. A worthy #1 overall pick. If Jim Ringo or a guy like him were on our staff and they listened to him we should have featured the run led by Martin and pounded on the Packers' defense like what happened a year later. Putting it all on Bledsoe's shoulders and those two tackling dummies was a recipe for failure.

I have to point out, not the guaranteed disaster of starting Eason there eleven years earlier.

 

[Deus Irae]

My feelings are that BB helped re-enforce Brady's leadership abilities and made him a better leader than he would have been under most coaches. After all most times leadership abilities is the number one characteristic that BB looks for in a player. This is the main reason why I think BB and Brady's relationship was a symbiotic relationship and they both benefitted in different ways through it. No one was more responsible for the dynasty, but at different stages it only seemed out of balance, but it always was equally balanced. The only exception is probably at the very end, when Brady rightfully got impatient because he realized his career is winding down and the Patriots would need to rebuild.

Even if you wanted to heavily weight things towards the coach, as you seem inclined to do, the failure to supply adequate offensive resources in 2006, with Brady still taking the team to the AFCCG, would have to mark the end of the BB > Brady position. The very next year, BB ended up flipping the team to full Brady, and we got 16-0. So, even if you ignored all the Brady stuff before that, and wanted to argue a slow trending, 2006 was the very latest you could be even remotely reasonable when saying it was still BB's team (in context of BB v. TB).

It was over, and it was Brady's team. 2008 reinforced that, when Brady was lost for the season, and the team missed the playoffs with personnel that had been thought to still have enough of the previous year's talent to possibly repeat its 16-0 season from the year before.

So, even giving BB heavy credit and, even if you give him more than he deserves for the early years, Brady was the key for far longer than was BB.

 

[Ring 6]

This made me wonder about the Jags, the worse team last season. They'll get their purported franchise QB with #1 pick. They have $86M in cap space ($20M more than Pats). They have 6 picks in top 101 (8 in top 134). They have a few talented players already under contract. The HC by all accounts is good.

For those that think the Pats can make the playoffs this year because of what Dude says above, do the Jags also make playoffs since they're better off on the same categories? Would you rather be HC of Jags or HC of Pats?

It depends upon the quality of the decisions.
History has shown us the frivolous spending of a lot of cap space doesn’t improve a team, and poor decision making is typical a case of a weak front office and coaching staff.
Jacksonville has an opportunity to turnover more than half their team, more than half their starters.
But those players will be chosen by a coach with no NFL experience brining in a system with no nfl experience with an entire squad of players adapting to something new with a green qb who is seriously over hyped.
Does Jacksonville have the opportunity to build a championship caliber roster? Of course they do. But thousands of decisions go into winning a championship and that’s what turns opportunity into reality.

I don’t agree that Jacksonville has a better base of players at the start of the league year, the cupboard is extremely bare, but I would gamble on belichick and whoever he ends up with at qb in 2021 over an NFL rookie taking over in a dysfunctional organization desire Jacksonville having a few more off season resources.

 

[Ring 6]

1.) We need meat up front to clear a path for our linebackers.
2.) We have to deal with Gilmore's contract....either by trading him or giving him an extension.
3.) Depending on what happens with Gilmore, we might have to draft a CB.
4.) We need some veteran LB play too...can't depend on Hightower making us better and Jennings taking the year 2 leap.
5.) We need an edge setter after Simon fell off a bit last year.

Not as dire as on offense....but do the above 5 things and this should be a top 5 D. Our D is good if we aren't getting shredded by the ground game and capable of utilizing our secondary depth by forcing teams to pass the ball.

Im curious, how can you not count on Hightower making us better but count on a lesser player coming in and making us better. Perhaps I misunderstood your comment.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Im curious, how can you not count on Hightower making us better but count on a lesser player coming in and making us better. Perhaps I misunderstood your comment.

I'm guessing @Hyped meant HT alone won't make them better. Also can't rely on him as the year off could've slowed him down.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Hightower COULD help a lot, but he missed a year and we don't know if that will impact his play, let alone if he can stay healthy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Why does the defense need retooling? It was number one defense in just 2019

I'm not sure if this is a trick question or it's sarcasm. They were "#1" statistically, but they were not the best D. Once teams caught on to the "Boogey Men", their manufactured pass rush became ineffective. Their run D was terrible which carried over into 2020. They need a run stuffing NT they haven't had since Big Vince. A guy who could create havoc inside would be welcomed as well. Since Wilfork's departure, they've had stop gaps with Allen Branch and then Shelton. They need a full revamp of the front 7 not including HT. Is it too hard to ask for Bill to draft a difference maker on D which he hasn't done since Jamie Collins? I want the 15th pick used on a QB or a game changing player in the front 7.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I'm sure he doesn't like being dragged through the mud

This is status quo.

Cleveland. Kosar. Pond Scum.

Two(2) stints as the head coach of the Jets without ever coaching a game, both in the context of squabbling with the Patriots over Parcells.

"Something's not right" about winning in Pittsburgh in the '02 AFCCG. Truth is something was not that good: specifically the Steelers.

"They hate their coach."

Three titles in four seasons followed by two more AFC East titles and another AFCCG appearance; six years packed with unprecedented and unmatched in history denigration, belittlement, qualification and [Rodney was right] disrespect of any similar dynasty in the history of professional team sports by media and opponents, culminating in:

Fraudger. CryGate.

...which is now forever used to label the Patriots 'repeat offenders' in subsequent baseless scandals DefameGate and TeamMediaProductionsWhichHaveNoDirectConnectionToCoachesOrPlayersGate.

Status quo. Bill's okay. Sure he's trying to win. Like always.

 

[TheRainMaker]

1.) We need meat up front to clear a path for our linebackers.
2.) We have to deal with Gilmore's contract....either by trading him or giving him an extension.
3.) Depending on what happens with Gilmore, we might have to draft a CB.
4.) We need some veteran LB play too...can't depend on Hightower making us better and Jennings taking the year 2 leap.
5.) We need an edge setter after Simon fell off a bit last year.

Not as dire as on offense....but do the above 5 things and this should be a top 5 D. Our D is good if we aren't getting shredded by the ground game and capable of utilizing our secondary depth by forcing teams to pass the ball.

Won't shock me if Bill spends money on some Front 7 help and then drafts a front 7 player if he can't get a QB with the 15th pick. Need to keep Gilmore and take advantage of the best secondary Bill's had since the early years. Build the defense to at least give the team a chance.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think Belichick stands out as the head coach most directly tied to the accomplishments of a single player i.e. subtract the player (Brady) and the whole thing crumbles like a house of cards.

Noll/Bradshaw
Landry/Staubach
Halas/Luckman
Brown/Graham
Walsh/Montana
Lombardi/Starr
Belichick/Brady

yawn...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Noll/Bradshaw
Landry/Staubach
Halas/Luckman
Brown/Graham
Walsh/Montana
Lombardi/Starr
Belichick/Brady

yawn...

I give Coach Landry some xtra credit as he won a lot of games with Meredith and Danny White.....just never a SB with them. Which is what a guy like Staubach does.

Noll's record without TB12v1 is about a dozen games under .500.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

There's no denying that Kraft is a good owner and has made a lot of improvements to the Pats. His cleaning up of the mess that was the old stadium is one that I've mentioned here. But he's still just an owner and comes in a distant third for his impact on the team. The proper order is player, coach and then owner.

The same is true of the Celtics, though with a smaller group the player is even more influential. That's probably why Russell's teams won 11 of 13 and Brady's team "only" won 7 of 19.

The Brady Pats did not win more titles because Belichick did not adopt Auerbach's ruthless every-year-let's-go-all-the-way mentality and he also lacked Auerbach's awareness of players' point of view and value in their perspective and experience - after all it's the players out there on the court, not the coach - while Belichick has a profound disconnect. It's not a criticism. But Branch's contract should have been redone and Vinatieri should have stayed. Belichick outsmarted himself giving away titles with silly petty personnel moves (Welker, Butler) and crazy strategies (eschewing sure field goals for unlikely fourth down attempts which unsurprisingly failed).

It's a Boston local affliction of all the local teams which usually prevents them from repeating. '71 Bruins resting stars for an extended period before the playoffs. Ainge failing to keep Posey in '08. Meanwhile the Lakers keep Cooper, the Bulls sign Rodman, Pop keeps the guys he needs around Duncan, etc.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Simms was a very good quarterback for his era, and I highly doubt Hostetler would have led that team to the 1990 NFCCG

But he got the job done, winning every game including against us after Simms went down.

the 1990 NFCCG; in addition, they really lucked out with the Montana injury

It wasn't luck, it was Marshall. They were a great defense and forced the Craig fumble too.

 

[Deus Irae]

But he got the job done, winning every game including against us after Simms went down.

That's an Eagles comp. Simms (Wentz) was the starter. Hostetler (Foles) was the backup who had a good run.

 

[Calhoun44]

I agree with all of that but my point wasn't about the past but the future.

It's hard to believe Bill can recreate the "winning" ways with an average QB. Bill was lucky to have Tom for 20 years. He was a young 48 when Brady (23) threw his first pass. For example, Reid (63) may only get 10 years with Mahomes assuming they stay together.

With Tom gone, the team has no leader to "inspire" and to set an example for doing things the Patriots Way. Slater, McC, and High are great team leaders but they're not the franchise QB. That "it" the team had is gone.

When people want to pretend that Tom is just another player that Bill can replace with an avg guy that he can coach up, I'm out. It's not happening.

Well, we don't have a choice but to replace Tom. Hopefully we find an above average guy for Bill to coach up. He is my favorite football coach, so we will see how it goes. Nick Foles won a SB, Flacco, and others, I don't particularly think they have amazing leadership skills or are elite QB's, so I have hope.

 

[Calhoun44]

Even if you wanted to heavily weight things towards the coach, as you seem inclined to do, the failure to supply adequate offensive resources in 2006, with Brady still taking the team to the AFCCG, would have to mark the end of the BB > Brady position. The very next year, BB ended up flipping the team to full Brady, and we got 16-0. So, even if you ignored all the Brady stuff before that, and wanted to argue a slow trending, 2006 was the very latest you could be even remotely reasonable when saying it was still BB's team (in context of BB v. TB).

It was over, and it was Brady's team. 2008 reinforced that, when Brady was lost for the season, and the team missed the playoffs with personnel that had been thought to still have enough of the previous year's talent to possibly repeat its 16-0 season from the year before.

So, even giving BB heavy credit and, even if you give him more than he deserves for the early years, Brady was the key for far longer than was BB.

If you think my post is "heavily weighing things toward the coach", then I need to improve my writing skills. That was not my intention. I was advocating that the relationship was mutually beneficial. At times it may have seemed more of a BB team or Brady team, but I think it was always in balance until near the end.

 

[203Pat]

How is that fair? Are you saying that it is fair because Brady is gone?

I am not saying don't give Bill credit for the last 20 years. I am saying that Brady greatly influenced the way Bill approached the offseason. We were a free agent destination because we rolled out of bed to 12 wins each year so guys might take a little less to come here. Bill didn't usually have to pay top dollar for high end talent and he was also able to sign a lot of mid tier free agents that would be productive because Brady was able to elevate their play. Now he doesn't have a QB so guys like Chris Hogan and Brandon Lafell aren't going to cut it anymore.