Belichick criticism mega-thread

[Joker]

Imagine if Kraft listens to all you unbelievable scary mary foot stampers and fires BB...and hires back Pete Carroll... Imagine that...or better still, he hires Toescuker Ryan,another CL favorite on this board.

 

[Kontradiction]

Imagine if Kraft listens to all you unbelievable scary mary foot stampers and fires BB...and hires back Pete Carroll... Imagine that...or better still, he hires Toescuker Ryan,another CL favorite on this board.

The succession plan is supposedly Matt Patricia. Not sure how much coaching he’d actually be able to do when he has to go run to the entrance of the stadium every 5 minutes to pick up DoorDash.

 

[Joker]

yeah...Patricia and Weis can take over and can the entire roster and open a friggin' Mr. Donut inside the Razor....a chocolate frosted and small coffee? Just $27.99 ! If there's one thing ol' Krafty Bob knows, it's how to "massage" a buck out of Pats fans

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why does the defense need retooling? It was number one defense in just 2019

Perhaps you might not be following the team closely enough?

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB approached FA the last 20 years knowing he had the QB sorted and the best player in the game usually at a below market contract.

Things feel different now because they ARE different

Yep. Stated that in another post.

 

[RobertWeathers]

To be fair you might as well toss the last 20 years out the window.

Let's see if old man BB has another reboot in him.

 

[Tony2046]

BB approached FA the last 20 years knowing he had the QB sorted and the best player in the game usually at a below market contract.

How else would BB approach FA with the GOAT QB on the roster?

Things feel different now because they ARE different

Wow. This is a Nostradamamien level of insightfulness. Until I read this post I couldn't put my finger on it. "Is something different with the Pats?", I often pondered and now, because of you, I have clarity.

 

[Ring 6]

BB’s record without Brady is sub 0.5 and that’s true at both the Browns and Patriots

Belichicks record over his career is the greatest ever. Bar none.

 

[venecol]

He doesn't have a franchise QB and has more cap space this year than in any of the 20 years running the team. He can also create another $20m with a couple of pink slips and trades. He also has 6 picks in the top 140. Not a boatload of picks but enough to move around.

This made me wonder about the Jags, the worse team last season. They'll get their purported franchise QB with #1 pick. They have $86M in cap space ($20M more than Pats). They have 6 picks in top 101 (8 in top 134). They have a few talented players already under contract. The HC by all accounts is good.

For those that think the Pats can make the playoffs this year because of what Dude says above, do the Jags also make playoffs since they're better off on the same categories? Would you rather be HC of Jags or HC of Pats?

 

[RobertWeathers]

This made me wonder about the Jags, the worse team last season. They'll get their purported franchise QB with #1 pick. They have $86M in cap space ($20M more than Pats). They have 6 picks in top 101 (8 in top 134). They have a few talented players already under contract. The HC by all accounts is good.

For those that think the Pats can make the playoffs this year because of what Dude says above, do the Jags also make playoffs since they're better off on the same categories? Would you rather be HC of Jags or HC of Pats?

Some fans on this board poo-poo it but establishing a winning culture built on hard work, accountability, credibility, commitment, organization, enthusiasm and a passion for winning is what separates winning franchises from perennial doormats and is REALLY hard to do. If it was easy teams would do it all day long. Talent needs leadership and inspiration. JAX has neither.

The Patriots already have it.

On the surface obviously JAX is a better situation but based on what I stated above, Urban and Baalke have their work cut out for them to establish that culture and have it grab hold.

 

[1960Pats]

What Kraft did to maneuver, purchase the team, stay in Foxborough and then trade for and hire Belichick is nothing short of brilliant.

Yes the flying elvis and Bledsoe-worship is boob behavior but the credit for the Pats' very continued existence and subsequent success, if I had to pick one guy it would be Robert.

“My objective in buying the Patriots is to help bring a championship to New England.”

Patriots owner Kraft turned mediocre team into juggernaut

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft has overseen one of the greatest franchise revivals in sports history by transforming a football doormat into a juggernaut that will seek a record-tying sixth Super Bowl title on Sunday.

www.reuters.com

Firing Carroll was aggressive and reflected his personal standard for excellence and accountability.

Belichick was not sought after by anyone besides the Jets who only wanted him because of the contract. The media and Kraft advisors considered him toxic.

Brady was not actively recruited or scouted by anyone other than the Patriots.

I am not diminishing the efforts of Brady and Belichick.

It's very similar to Walter Brown. He hired Auerbach who was known mainly as a hothead and later facilitated the drafting of Russell famously leveraging the Ice Capades.

There's no denying that Kraft is a good owner and has made a lot of improvements to the Pats. His cleaning up of the mess that was the old stadium is one that I've mentioned here. But he's still just an owner and comes in a distant third for his impact on the team. The proper order is player, coach and then owner.

The same is true of the Celtics, though with a smaller group the player is even more influential. That's probably why Russell's teams won 11 of 13 and Brady's team "only" won 7 of 19.

 

[venecol]

Some fans on this board poo-poo it but establishing a winning culture built on hard work, accountability, credibility, commitment, organization, enthusiasm and a passion for winning is what separates winning franchises from perennial doormats and is REALLY hard to do. If it was easy teams would do it all day long. Talent needs leadership and inspiration. JAX has neither.

The Patriots already have it.

On the surface obviously JAX is a better situation but based on what I stated above, Urban and Baalke have their work cut out for them to establish that culture and have it grab hold.

I 100% agree, but this is where I don't think people appreciate the intangibles the GOAT brought to the team.

To me, Brady was the Leader that brought the inspiration. He set the example for the winning culture. That's been lost, so I would say the Patriots "had" it. They need to find that "Leader" for other players to rally around. It's not Belichick and it sure ain't Mariota, lol.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I 100% agree, but this is where I don't think people appreciate the intangibles the GOAT brought to the team.

To me, Brady was the Leader that brought the inspiration. He set the example for the winning culture. That's been lost, so I would say the Patriots "had" it. They need to find that "Leader" for other players to rally around. It's not Belichick and it sure ain't Mariota, lol.

That's what a franchise QB brings to a team and why Tom was so important to the dynasty. It wasn't just with his talent but his presence in the huddle, on the sidelines, in the locker room and on the practice field and falling in line with the culture BB implemented.

 

[sb1]

You are 100% correct.

Great coaches never "retire". Someone needs to tell them that.

Hes got a year, maybe two - max.

Bill will and should get a chance to rebuild this team. My expectations aren't high for 2021 but they will be starting in 2022. If we don't see progress I think Bill will be "retiring" shortly after that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill will and should get a chance to rebuild this team. My expectations aren't high for 2021 but they will be starting in 2022. If we don't see progress I think Bill will be "retiring" shortly after that.

Absolutely.

If he f___cks it up he is gone.

 

[venecol]

That's what a franchise QB brings to a team and why Tom was so important to the dynasty. It wasn't just with his talent but his presence in the huddle, on the sidelines, in the locker room and on the practice field and falling in line with the culture BB implemented.

100%
We saw how he affected the Yucks. It was eye opening to listen to all the players that came out after the SB talk about him. Even defensive players. Everyone.

I think it was after the CHI game, where Tom goes off on Jensen for getting another penalty that they dramatically reduced the penalties. He taught them the winning culture or the "formula" for winning.

 

[Calhoun44]

100%
We saw how he affected the Yucks. It was eye opening to listen to all the players that came out after the SB talk about him. Even defensive players. Everyone.

I think it was after the CHI game, where Tom goes off on Jensen for getting another penalty that they dramatically reduced the penalties. He taught them the winning culture or the "formula" for winning.

My feelings are that BB helped re-enforce Brady's leadership abilities and made him a better leader than he would have been under most coaches. After all most times leadership abilities is the number one characteristic that BB looks for in a player. This is the main reason why I think BB and Brady's relationship was a symbiotic relationship and they both benefitted in different ways through it. No one was more responsible for the dynasty, but at different stages it only seemed out of balance, but it always was equally balanced. The only exception is probably at the very end, when Brady rightfully got impatient because he realized his career is winding down and the Patriots would need to rebuild.

 

[slash83]

No other coach is rather have.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

GOAT Head Coach?

Pick from this list (or insert head coach X). If any of the listed accomplishments are inaccurate then you can blame some guy named Aaron Tallent (as I lifted it from one of his articles). The commentary at the end is mine.

Bill Parcells
New York Giants 1983-90; New England 1993-96; New York Jets 1997-99; Dallas Cowboys 2003-06
172-130-1 (19 years), 11-8 in playoffs
5 division titles
3 Super Bowl appearances (XXI, XXV, XXXI)
Super Bowl XXI, XXV champion
Made the playoffs with four different teams.

Chuck Noll
Pittsburgh 1969-91
193-148-1 (23 years), 16-8 in playoffs
9 division titles
Super Bowl IX, X, XIII, XIV champion (four in six seasons)

Tom Landry
Dallas 1960-78
250-162-6 (29 years), 20-16 in playoffs
13 division titles
5 Super Bowl appearances (V, VI, X, XII, XIII)
Super Bowl VI, XII champion
Record 20 straight winning seasons.

George Halas
Decatur/Chicago Staleys (APFA) 1920-21; Chicago 1922-29, ’33-42, ’46-55, ’58-67
318-148-31 (40 years), 6-3 in playoffs
10 division titles
6 NFL championships (1921, ’33, ’40-41, ’46, ’63)

Joe Gibbs
Washington 1981-92, 2004-07
154-94 (16 years), 17-7 in playoffs
5 division titles
4 Super Bowl appearances (XVII, XVIII, XXII, XXVI)
Super Bowl XVII, XXII, XXVI champion
Won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks.

Paul Brown
Cleveland Browns (AAFC) 1946-49; Cleveland 1950-62; Cincinnati 1968-75
213-104-9 (25 years), 9-8 in playoffs
14 division titles
4 AAFC championships (1946-49)
3 NFL championships (1950, ’54-55)

Bill Walsh
San Francisco 1979-88
92-59-1 (10 years), 10-4 in playoffs
6 division titles
Super Bowl XVI, XIX, XXIII champion

Don Shula
Baltimore Colts 1963-69, Miami 1970-95
328-156-6 (33 years), 19-17 in playoffs
16 division titles
6 Super Bowl appearances (III, VI, VII, VIII, XVII, XIX)
Super Bowl VII, VIII champion
Only perfect season in NFL history.

Vince Lombardi
Green Bay 1959-67; Washington 1969
96-34-6 (10 years), 9-1 in playoffs
6 division titles
3 NFL championships (1961-62, ’65)
Super Bowl I, II champion

Bill Belichick
Cleveland 1991-95; New England 2000-Present
280-136 (26 years), 31-12 in playoffs
17 division titles
9 Super Bowl appearances (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLII, XLVI, XLIX, LI, LII, LIII)
Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX, LI, LIII champion

Of course Belichick is still going which may actually knock him down a few pegs before he's done. A few more sub-.500 seasons while Brady's competing for Super Bowl titles and Belichick is definitely going to take a hit in the short-term. However, a hundred years from now those 6 Super Bowls are going to look mighty impressive. Is he the GOAT of head coaching though?

Belichick's mentor, Bill Parcells won 2 Super Bowls with 2 different quarterbacks and he made the playoff with 4 different teams. Ultimately his transient nature probably worked against him but Parcells did accomplished a lot with some pretty mediocre quarterbacks.

Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different quarterbacks, which is among the most impressive accomplishments for a head coach.

Bill Walsh retired at the peak of his career. Probably would have won 3-4 more Super Bowls with Montana/Young had he stuck around. Those San Fran rosters were incredible.

Shula's accomplishments are obviously impressive but he also inexplicably failed to win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino.

Overall a lot of impressive accomplishments by some great head coaches. I think Belichick stands out as the head coach most directly tied to the accomplishments of a single player i.e. subtract the player (Brady) and the whole thing crumbles like a house of cards. The most infamous coaching decision (benching Butler) belongs to Belichick as well.

I'm curious if anyone would have any of these head coaches (or others) ranked higher than Belichick?

I don't think I'd rank anyone over Belichick. What he has done in the expansion/salary cap era with at least three playoff rounds to further acid test dynasties, and keeping the band together for so long, is unique among this group. For peers, no one else has been able to sustain anything close. Jimmy Johnson wasn't even able to stay on for the third Dallas title as a great example of how much the winning boat tends to rock.

The list is good, though, as it does demonstrate that the QB is so critical; or I should say, the coach can be critical to supporting the great QB.

George Halas / Sid Luckman
Chuck Noll / Terry Bradshaw
Tom Landry / Roger Staubach
Paul Brown / Otto Graham
Bill Walsh / Joe Montana
Vince Lombardi / Bart Starr
Don Shula / Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese & Dan Marino

I think that some of the misconception about "the super coach" who orchestrates consistent winning by coaching superiority - with just minimal QB assistance - is due to the popularity of the NFL in the 1980s and the two outliers that arose:

Bill Parcells / Phils Simms (with a cameo by Jeff Hostetler)
Joe Gibbs / Joe Theismann, Doug Williams & Mark Rypien

Simms was a very good quarterback for his era, and I highly doubt Hostetler would have led that team to the 1990 NFCCG; in addition, they really lucked out with the Montana injury. I'm not downplaying Parcells (or Belichick) during that run, but it's a false conception that the Giants could just plug in an average guy and win. Despite having a great defense, they still needed good/great QB play to win their titles.

1980s Washington is one of the bigger outliers in sports, kind of like trying to give a blueprint to success by pointing to the 2007-11 Giants and acting like the results were some great formula rather than really flukey. Gibbs deserves tremendous credit; it's unheard of to win three Super Bowls like that with three different QBs. This might be the best case for "system over quarterback" that exists, though that's a different discussion (and the argument would ultimately get wrecked under scrutiny.)

But however you feel about the Giants and Washington of the 1980s, their success led to the perception of "the system" being supreme and the better team often able to overcome having a mediocre QB on its way to the Super Bowl. There are obviously plenty of one hit wonders besides this, and QB play is the reason that they weren't dynasties (80s Bears, 2000-present Ravens.) Football history is filled with championships games between the most elite quarterbacks in the league. Team Bill has this bizarre obsession with mediocre quarterbacks being successful, even though their evidence isn't just flimsy...it often points to the very opposite effect. Take a look at the Testaverde Browns, for example; his mediocre (to be generous) quarterback play in 1994 is actually the reason they weren't real Super Bowl contenders, despite having the #1 scoring defense in the league. Is there any question that a 1994 version of Tom Brady does exactly what he did to the 2001 Patriots?

 

[Hyped]

Why does the defense need retooling? It was number one defense in just 2019

1.) We need meat up front to clear a path for our linebackers.
2.) We have to deal with Gilmore's contract....either by trading him or giving him an extension.
3.) Depending on what happens with Gilmore, we might have to draft a CB.
4.) We need some veteran LB play too...can't depend on Hightower making us better and Jennings taking the year 2 leap.
5.) We need an edge setter after Simon fell off a bit last year.

Not as dire as on offense....but do the above 5 things and this should be a top 5 D. Our D is good if we aren't getting shredded by the ground game and capable of utilizing our secondary depth by forcing teams to pass the ball.