The Biggest Reason We Are Starting A Rebuild

[203Pat]

It's sad to trash a great team builder after back to back dynasties. Personally, I'm more interested in the next one and have ZERO interest in an autopsy of a year that is still incomplete. Be real. At the beginning of the season you probably would have thought 3-4 was possible at this time of the schedule. We were teased by 3 incomplete comebacks. Each year they lose a game like the Denver one. It doesn't mean the sky is falling. If this season doesn't meet expectations (whatever they are) then its on to next year.

Because 3-4 wins were expected by many that is even more reason to be down on Bill's recent team building abilities.

 

[tasmlab]

His 2014 offseason and Gilmore are really the only things keeping him from failing as far as I’m concerned.

No one will ever convince me we maximized Jimmy’s trade value. He got fleeced for Sanu. Eric Rowe was a bad trade. Josh Gordon as far as I’m concerned was a bad trade as he flaked out when they needed him. Bennett basically was brought here to waste cap space. Kony Ealy cost them a second to third round swap to be waived in camp. He gave away Hollister who would easily be our number one TE this year and last.

In free agency he just decided he wasn’t going to bother getting an NFL caliber TE after he showed up late to the party for Jared Cook. He’s continually whiffed at getting backup offensive lineman trading for Russell Bodine who was on the team about a week and Veldheer who god knows what happened there. He actually allowed a 42 year old QB to have his blind side protected by Marshall Newhouse. He let Akiem Hicks walk for not much money. He signed AB and that was a disaster that cost us $9 million for one game. Once again he let Brady walk with absolutely no plan at quarterback. That right there alone should knock him down a full letter grade.

Add that to some major draft busts and under performers in that stretch along with bungling the cap in the last year or so and I think he’s right around a D+ as a GM in the last 7 years.

If the Pats had won the 2015 and 2017 super bowls as well, would you consider moving his grade up to a C?

 

[captain stone]

If the Pats had won the 2015 and 2017 super bowls as well, would you consider moving his grade up to a C?

One of the reasons we didn't win in 2015 & 2017 is because of such poor draft/personnel decisions that useless trash like Chris Harper & Jonny Badmostly had to play roles here way, Way, WAY above their pay grade...

 

[DarrylS]

Easley was Bill's worst pick he ever made. Jimmy he carried for 3.5 years and didn't maximize the return he likely could have.

Brown was average as average can be. Basically the Sony Michel of DT's. We won't even get into Jordan Richards.

Cyrus Jones was horrendous at everything he did.

Rivers was a third round pick who can't stay healthy.

Wynn has been above average when he is actually healthy. Michel like I said is a complete JAG who shouldn't take a single snap away from Harris as far as I am concerned.

Harry looks lost and can't get open with a new starting QB as well as with that big meanie Brady. Joejuan Williams looks to be heading towards Bustville as his snaps are limited after spending most of last year as a healthy scratch (a tradition for our second round picks).

Duggar and Uche I will not cast any judgement on as they have been in the league for 30 seconds.

Are these picks supposed to prove a point or something? They're all bad because they were late firsts or second rounders? If that is the case that is ridiculous because plenty of good players end up going in the same area every single year. Like I have said about 20 times now. Yes we won games and Super Bowls in that span. Yes that is the objective. But in order to keep winning games and Super Bowls you need to hit on young cheap talented players in the draft. Both these things can be true. Bill won't see this. It is okay for you to admit he has had a rough stretch.

My response had to do with the claim that BB wasted "high draft picks" if you paid attention, these were not "high" draft picks..

Not every draft pick makes it in the NFL there are hits and misses, probably more misses the more you work down the list..

 

[DarrylS]

I love posts like these. Especially when they come from people who have heaped praise for BB when he hits on those top picks. That’s fine. But you should also be able to assign blame when he whiffs. Otherwise, you’re being logically inconsistent.

Citing the Super Bowl appearances and wins as a counter argument is looking more and more ridiculous by the week since it’s become increasingly obvious that it was more due to one player than it was the young talent that BB has drafted of late. As a matter of fact, we should be wondering how many more Super Bowls we could have won had it not been for lean draft years from 2005-2008 and from 2013-current.

What draft pick did I ever "heap praise upon"?? My response had to do with the allegation that BB wasted high draft picks.. I only showed that that they were not "high" draft picks for various reasons..

"How many more SB's", are you dreaming?? What other metric could you use to measure the success of any franchise??.. perhaps there should be a little less following along and face the facts that there are a myriad of factors this year that contributed to the current state of affair. Things are not good now for a lot of reasons, but I know BB is not complacent and things will be better. BB deserves more credit than most of you give him.

 

[Kontradiction]

What draft pick did I ever "heap praise upon"?? My response had to do with the allegation that BB wasted high draft picks.. I only showed that that they were not "high" draft picks for various reasons..

You’ve never praised the play of Wilfork, McCourty, Chung, Gronk, Jones, Hightower, Collins, etc? Never once? If you did, that’s heaping praise on the pick. All of those were selected with lower first round picks or in the second round. So, back to my point, if you assign praise to BB for those finds, as you rightfully should, you should assign blame when he whiffs. Not hide behind draft position as an excuse.

"How many more SB's", are you dreaming?? What other metric could you use to measure the success of any franchise??.. perhaps there should be a little less following along and face the facts that there are a myriad of factors this year that contributed to the current state of affair.

When citing Super Bowls, it’s become more than obvious that it was more related to Brady covering up for personnel holes than it was BB’s (in)ability to scout cheap talent once Reese departed. The cupboard of young is nearly nonexistent. That makes citing Super Bowl wins in a thread where we are discussing recent draft misses a worthless red herring. You’re tossing that red herring about because you can’t logically defend the whiffs in the last seven years.

Things are not good now for a lot of reasons, but I know BB is not complacent and things will be better. BB deserves more credit than most of you give him.

Aye. And chief among those reasons was p.ussyfooting around Brady’s contract situation and blowing one top overall pick after another for three years shy of a decade.

 

[Tony2046]

So what? The would have won in 2018 with Jimmy G. They are in a rebuilt now, specifically because they don't have a QB. They would have one if Jimmy G wasn't traded.

That was Kraft's second biggest mistake, behind kicking Parcells out of town for Bobby Grier...

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I don't want to get banned so I leave it at that.

Eat a snickers or something.

 

[Tony2046]

amen brother! Reports were that prior to the trade, jimmy was destroying our super bowl defense in practice.

Not the reports I read. He sucked in practice.

 

[sb1]

A wild scenario involving the Patriots trading Bill Belichick that just could work

Trade Bill Belichick? That idea was floated around in Boston, and Nick Ashooh has a scenario where it just could work. Let the chaos ensue.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[203Pat]

If the Pats had won the 2015 and 2017 super bowls as well, would you consider moving his grade up to a C?

I know this is a "6 rings huh huh" post but 2015 was filled with coaching and personnel blunders. From letting a completely unproven rookie try and return a punt in inclement weather against the Broncos which ended up blowing the game, choosing to kick in OT against the Jets, to banging our heads against the wall trying to run the ball with the corpse of Stephen Jackson and blowing home field advantage against Miami. On top of that was that terrible draft that yielded one good player in Trey Flowers and Bryan Stork potentially tipping the Broncos off to the snap count to let Manning's noodle arm get an undeserved ring. 2015 was not my favorite season.

 

[203Pat]

My response had to do with the claim that BB wasted "high draft picks" if you paid attention, these were not "high" draft picks..

Not every draft pick makes it in the NFL there are hits and misses, probably more misses the more you work down the list..

So late first and into the second round isn't a high pick? What world are you living in. If your ridiculous argument is that you cant find good players in the range we were picking in you're either dense or trolling.

2015 we took Brown. Landon Collins went the next pick. Eddie Goldman a few picks later. Then at 64 we took one of Bill's all timers in Jordan Richards. Tyler Lockett went 5 minutes later. Think our offense might look a little different had we picked him? Even Chris Conley who is no superstar would have been lightyears better than Richards but then again an upside-down mop with a bucket for a head could have played better.

2016 Cyrus Jones. Useless. James Bradberry who has been a solid starter in the league at corner went 2 picks later. 2 picks after him Kevin Byard went. He was an All-Pro a couple years ago.

2017 isn't really worth getting into as Bill traded away that draft then used two third round picks on guys who combined to play 12 games.

2018 Mr JAG himself Sony Michel. We all know who went a few picks later as well as did a first and then second team All-Pro in Darious Leonard, then Cortland Sutton not long after.

2019 once again no real need to get into. Everyone knows how many better receivers went after Harry.

Slice it how ever you want. Twist yourself into all the pretzels you want. These were high picks. Late first round into the second round is a high pick. They are players you're expecting to at worst be starters within a year or two. Bill pretty much struck out on all of them.

 

[203Pat]

So what? The would have won in 2018 with Jimmy G. They are in a rebuilt now, specifically because they don't have a QB. They would have one if Jimmy G wasn't traded.

That was Kraft's second biggest mistake, behind kicking Parcells out of town for Bobby Grier...

Dear god. I love Jimmy. I likely always will but there is absolutely, positively, a 0.0 percent chance that Jimmy would have led us to a super bowl win in 2018. I literally cannot believe I just read this post.

 

[Username]

Well if we end up signing the third TE listed here, David Wells, we can expect the team to get younger. A lot younger...

NFL Rumors: Patriots to host three free-agent tight ends for workouts

The Patriots reportedly are on the hunt for tight end depth ahead of Monday's game against the Jets.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[captain stone]

Well if we end up signing the third TE listed here, David Wells, we can expect the team to get younger. A lot younger...

NFL Rumors: Patriots to host three free-agent tight ends for workouts

The Patriots reportedly are on the hunt for tight end depth ahead of Monday's game against the Jets.

sports.yahoo.com

Among those three I would sign Cantrell...Never heard of the other two...

 

[NG Pats Fan]

That 2017 Kony Ealy trade is an underrated awful trade. Kamara was right there. Perfect fit for the Patriots

YEP.

Even worse about 2017

							​
	3	83	New England Patriots	Derek Rivers	DE	Youngstown State	MVFC​	from Tennessee [R3 - 8]
	3	84	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Chris Godwin †	WR	Penn State	Big Ten​
	3	85	New England Patriots	Antonio Garcia	OT	Troy	Sun Belt​	from Detroit [R3 - 9]
	3	86	Kansas City Chiefs	Kareem Hunt †	RB	Toledo	MAC​

 

[NG Pats Fan]

2018 draft hurt us a lot

	1	23	New England Patriots	Isaiah Wynn	OT	Georgia	SEC​	from LA Rams [R1 - 13]
	1	24	Carolina Panthers	D. J. Moore	WR	Maryland	Big Ten​
	1	25	Baltimore Ravens	Hayden Hurst	TE	South Carolina	SEC​	from Tennessee [R1 - 14]
	1	26	Atlanta Falcons	Calvin Ridley	WR	Alabama	SEC​
	1	27	Seattle Seahawks	Rashaad Penny	RB	San Diego State	MW​	from New Orleans via Green Bay [R1 - 15]
	1	28	Pittsburgh Steelers	Terrell Edmunds	S	Virginia Tech	ACC​
	1	29	Jacksonville Jaguars	Taven Bryan	DT	Florida	SEC​
	1	30	Minnesota Vikings	Mike Hughes	CB	UCF	The American​
	1	31	New England Patriots	Sony Michel	RB	Georgia	SEC​
	1	32	Baltimore Ravens	Lamar Jackson †	QB	Louisville	ACC​	from Philadelphia [R1 - 16] 2016 Heisman Trophy winner
	2	33	Cleveland Browns	Austin Corbett	OT	Nevada	MW​
	2	34	New York Giants	Will Hernandez	G	UTEP	C-USA​
	2	35	Cleveland Browns	Nick Chubb †	RB	Georgia	SEC​	from Houston [R2 - 1]
	2	36	Indianapolis Colts	Darius Leonard †	LB	South Carolina State	MEAC​

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Jojuan Williams might be the worst trade up of the BB era

	2	45	New England Patriots	Joejuan Williams	CB	Vanderbilt	SEC​	from Atlanta via LA Rams [R2 - 7]
	2	46	Cleveland Browns	Greedy Williams	CB	LSU	SEC​	from Washington via Indianapolis [R2 - 8]
	2	47	Seattle Seahawks	Marquise Blair	S	Utah	Pac-12​	from Carolina [R2 - 9]
	2	48	New Orleans Saints	Erik McCoy	C	Texas A&M	SEC​	from Miami [R2 - 10]
	2	49	Indianapolis Colts	Ben Banogu	LB	TCU	Big 12​	from Cleveland [R2 - 11]
	2	50	Minnesota Vikings	Irv Smith Jr.	TE	Alabama	SEC​
	2	51	Tennessee Titans	A. J. Brown	WR	Ole Miss	SEC​
	2	52	Cincinnati Bengals	Drew Sample	TE	Washington	Pac-12​	from Pittsburgh via Denver [R2 - 12]
	2	53	Philadelphia Eagles	Miles Sanders	RB	Penn State	Big Ten​	from Baltimore [R2 - 13]

	2	63	Kansas City Chiefs	Juan Thornhill	S	Virginia	ACC​	from LA Rams [R2 - 18]
	2	64	Seattle Seahawks	DK Metcalf	WR	Ole Miss	SEC​	from New England [R2 - 19]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Well if we end up signing the third TE listed here, David Wells, we can expect the team to get younger. A lot younger...

NFL Rumors: Patriots to host three free-agent tight ends for workouts

The Patriots reportedly are on the hunt for tight end depth ahead of Monday's game against the Jets.

sports.yahoo.com

Interesting that BB is bringing in inexperienced players and not a vet like Charles Clay or another. It seems like he usually likes veterans. Does not look like a move to win in 2020.

 

[captain stone]

YEP.

Even worse about 2017

							​
	3	83	New England Patriots	Derek Rivers	DE	Youngstown State	MVFC​	from Tennessee [R3 - 8]
	3	84	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Chris Godwin †	WR	Penn State	Big Ten​
	3	85	New England Patriots	Antonio Garcia	OT	Troy	Sun Belt​	from Detroit [R3 - 9]
	3	86	Kansas City Chiefs	Kareem Hunt †	RB	Toledo	MAC​

Even worstest about 2017:

4 137 Indianapolis Colts Zach Banner G USC Pac-12​ from New England [R4 - 17] 5 146 San Francisco 49ers George Kittle † TE Iowa Big Ten​ ​							​

						​

No. 137: New England→ Indianapolis (PD). New England traded a fourth-round selection (137th) to Indianapolis in exchange for a sixth-round selection (200th) and tight end Dwayne Allen.[source 18]

 

[Toofy]

This thread makes me feel really sad... I know in hindsight everything looks different, but still not that many failures amongst players taken after our draft position which means our evaluation was a big failure. Its time for bill to own up to draft misses and hit the draft out of the park this year , else we might be looking at possibly few years wallowing in the bottom ala jetes.

Bill also does not seem to be himself with the excuses of cap which were to do with fact that our draft was such a miss for years that you had to use middling veterans to plug the gaps. Now with no Brady, no big name veterans would want to come here at a discount.so no more room to fail in draft.

Maybe this is how every other franchise felt. Unless we get a solid quarterback, we are pretty much done. And we cannot afford more Cyrus jones, jojuan, michel,harry, jordan Richards, Duke Dawson's... Too many whiffs.. unbelievablly bad... Add to the fact that cajuste and froholdt seem to be perennially injured along with Derek rivers who lost 3 seasons to injury, i think they need to rethink draft strategy . Can't redshirt rookies . Better to lose seasons and get the rookies experience than hoping them to become superstars in 4th year and then allow them to sign elsewhere as free agents . Ee got lucky with gronk but too many misses while taking players with injury history. Need to temper down on those risks. Need some fresh intelligent faces in the draft room . Can ee poach from Steelers?

Need to get at least 2 -3 seasons of productivity from first 3 rounders . Its been too many misses and it has to stop...