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Pro Football Focus individual grades for Patriots roster


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Somebody cares and some people take it seriously otherwise there wouldn’t be a PFF website and it wouldn’t be recognized as a standard player evaluation site.

It's recognized because it's overhyped. That makes it the Buzzfeed of NFL stat sites, but it doesn't make it worth a damn. I would love nothing more than to see a site actually find a way to accurately analyze football players, beyond the very basics (Boy, he did that run in x.y seconds!, He's a 100 tackle guy, etc...) via data. That has not yet happened yet.

I was one of the very first people to champion PFF, back when it was just a basic number counting site. But, after I saw how badly they were screwing up when they started making up ****ty formula for their 'analysis', I knew it was time to move away from it. And nothing's changed enough to bring me back. The formulae still suck, and the hype now far exceeds the value.
 
I was one of the very first people to champion PFF, back when it was just a basic number counting site. But, after I saw how badly they were screwing up when they started making up ****ty formula for their 'analysis', I knew it was time to move away from it. And nothing's changed enough to bring me back. The formulae still suck, and the hype now far exceeds the value.

Hold on. So, you were ok with PFF, but not anymore? I'm confused; am I misinterpreting or are you saying you were ok with them grading on a -2 to +2 scale? Or is the "basic number counting" you are referring to something totally different?

Anyway, they still start with the same -2 to +2 scale:
From there, the grades are normalized to better account for game situation; this ranges from where a player lined up to the dropback depth of the quarterback or the length of time he had the ball in his hand and everything in between. They are finally converted to a 0-100 scale and appear in our Player Grades tool.
PFF Player Grades | Pro Football Focus

I would love nothing more than to see a site actually find a way to accurately analyze football players, beyond the very basics (Boy, he did that run in x.y seconds!, He's a 100 tackle guy, etc...) via data. That has not yet happened yet.
I'd want PFF to find a way to identify the Xs and Os & tendencies in playcalling. If you are going evaluate every player on every play why not provide some info on what passing concepts are used most? Same for defensive coverage. I don't expect the exact play-call on every play, or anything impossible. But at least identify recognizable passing plays when it's there (i.e. "Spider 2 Y Banana") & what the Defense did (Cover 1); even if you can't tell, just list middle of the field open vs closed, man vs zone, or just an individual route, etc. Don't know why PFF won't do this. It would be much easier to watch the All-22 with some info.

It's recognized because it's overhyped. That makes it the Buzzfeed of NFL stat sites, but it doesn't make it worth a damn.

If there's "hype" surrounding PFF it's due to the immediate backlash it gets from fans over its evaluations/tweets. So, if there's hype; its more like controversy, because any time someone cites PFF in a discussion, any discussion, it's immediately met with the same outright dismissal (& valid criticisms) that we are currently discussing.

Also, not "worth a damn"? Really? I totally acknowledge the gaps/flaws of PFF, but you can't just dismiss having former NFL Scouts grade each play of each game. Especially so, because you cannot use conventional stats to evaluate, say, a LT or an ILB like you can with, say, a QB or RB. So, if you want to try and rank all the players at each position; PFF is pretty much the only site that even attempts to do this. Now, back when it was some random fan (from the UK watching a TV broadcast)? Yeah, it was indeed not "worth a damn." But when former NFL Scouts grade players after watching All-22 film...then I genuinely think it shouldn't be outright dismissed. Questions/Criticism of the results? Sure. But not dismissal.
 
Hold on. So, you were ok with PFF, but not anymore? I'm confused; am I misinterpreting or are you saying you were ok with them grading on a -2 to +2 scale? Or is the "basic number counting" you are referring to something totally different?
Yes he is. What he means is when PFF focused on "raw" numbers like coverage stats, pass rush stats and so forth instead of hyping up this one-size-fits-all grading scheme.
 
I am having difficulty with the concept of Elandon Roberts being virtually as productive as Kyle Van Noy or Dont'a Hightower.

Same goes for the idea of James Develin being 'average' at his position.

Roberts has been more productive than Hightower, Van Noy has been streets ahead of both of them though.
 
Roberts has been more productive than Hightower, Van Noy has been streets ahead of both of them though.
Roberts has had a solid year in my opinion, too. I’ve actually been saying that for awhile. It sounds odd that Hightower has been the weakest link of the three, but it’s true.

Of course, they have some different responsibilities, but both KVN and Roberts have been playing over their heads while Hightower has been underwhelming, so I think it’s pretty obvious who needs to step things up.
 
I am having difficulty with the concept of Elandon Roberts being virtually as productive as Kyle Van Noy or Dont'a Hightower.

Same goes for the idea of James Develin being 'average' at his position.

Average snaps ... total tackles ... TFL ... TKL/snap:

KVN ...... 91% ... 92 (1st) ... 5 (3rd) ... 9.7%
HT ....... 80% ... 48 (9th) ... 3 (6th) ... 6.2%
Roberts .. 42% ... 65 (5th) ... 6 (2nd) ... 15.1%

Coverage:

TGTS/snap ... catch% ... ypc ... other

HT ........ 2.5% ... 63% ... 8.2 ... 1 TD ... 1 INT
KVN ....... 2.4% ... 70% ... 7.9 ... 0 TD ... 1 INT
Roberts ... 4.9% ... 76% ... 8.2 ... 0 TD ... 4 PD

Pressure:

KVN ....... 3.5sk .. 11 QBH .. 24 prs .. 1 hold drawn
HT ........ 1sk ..... 6 QBH .. 15 prs .. 1 hold drawn
Roberts ... 1sk ..... 2 QBH ... 2 prs .. 2 holds drawn

KVN has 38.5 total pressures, 2nd on team to Flowers (60.5)
HT also has a blocked punt (KVN return for TD)
KVN also has 1 FF .. 2 FR (1 TD)


2019 cap hits:

HT = $10.375M (thru 2020)
KVN = $5.917M (thru 2019)
Roberts = $745k (thru 2019)
 
My thought exactly.

Harmon plays a lot of deep zone so he MIGHT be in the vicinity of a player that makes a catch. Does that count against him?

DMAC .... 1004 snaps ... 3.7% tgts/snap .. 65% catch (37 tgts)
Chung .... 887 snaps* .. 6.5% tgts/snap .. 57% catch (58 tgts)
Harmon ... 636 snaps ... 2.0% tgts/snap .. 54% catch (13 tgts)

*Chung missed 1.5 games (concussion during wk-2)

DMAC ..... 65% catch (37 tgts) ... 9.7 ypc .. 5 TD .. 1 INT/2 PD/3 flgs
Chung .... 57% catch (58 tgts) .. 10.0 ypc .. 3 TD .. 1 INT/3 PD/0 flgs
Harmon ... 54% catch (13 tgts) .. 12.9 ypc .. 1 TD .. 5 INT/1 flg
(IIRC, all of Harmon's INTs were off deflections from the primary coverage guy)
 
I'd just like to point out that I am happy to see that Gilmore rated #1 corner in NFL and that he's living up to his enormous contract which is very hard to do. Not only do Pats have a bad record when paying top dollar for Free Agents from other teams (as opposed to their own), so does every other team in the NFL, and usually these contracts are bust. I think the contract was roundly criticized at the time with some justification but has proven to be fair and perhaps even good value (in context of increasing salary caps overall, and Gilmore's top ranked status).

The Pats FO deserve some kudos on this. Gilmore has allowed us to stick to more man-to-man than any other team in NFL, and clearly while zone works ok in regular season (as evidenced by many successful teams still using it), Belichick has a view (that I agree with) that man-to-man is the best way to beat top flight offenses in the playoffs.
 
I quit reading after D Mcourty was not graded "Elite"

eh. I think he's lost a step. He's also whiffed on a few tackles. He's ok. I like him for his veteran presence and the fact we're unlikely to have a bad defensive formation or blown coverage with him in their, but that's his experience talking, not his physical presence to the extent it did in the past.
 
Somebody cares and some people take it seriously otherwise there wouldn’t be a PFF website and it wouldn’t be recognized as a standard player evaluation site.

Sure, I'd love for there to be 10 of these evaluation sites so I can average the score and not be biased by any one reviewer taking subjective decisions I might disagree with. But we don't have 10 such evaluation sites, and I don't have time to breakdown every play for every player in the NFL for the whole season. So I'll rely on PFF to have some useful bit of information, which I think is fair.
 
These grades piss me off. No way Develin is below average. No way does the OL (except for Mason, who might have graded a bit high) grade that low.

Develin was rated average, not below average.
 
Was gonna do some research on this whole matter, however the $34.99 per month subscription for PFF Premium Stats, was a non-starter.. even the $199.00 per year did not seem reasonable.. more ******** and efforts to attract fans to their site..
 
Develin was rated average, not below average.

Yup, I read the color wrong. He’s still not an average FB. Excellent blocker, which is 75% of the job.
 
My thought exactly.



DMAC .... 1004 snaps ... 3.7% tgts/snap .. 65% catch (37 tgts)
Chung .... 887 snaps* .. 6.5% tgts/snap .. 57% catch (58 tgts)
Harmon ... 636 snaps ... 2.0% tgts/snap .. 54% catch (13 tgts)

*Chung missed 1.5 games (concussion during wk-2)

DMAC ..... 65% catch (37 tgts) ... 9.7 ypc .. 5 TD .. 1 INT/2 PD/3 flgs
Chung .... 57% catch (58 tgts) .. 10.0 ypc .. 3 TD .. 1 INT/3 PD/0 flgs
Harmon ... 54% catch (13 tgts) .. 12.9 ypc .. 1 TD .. 5 INT/1 flg
(IIRC, all of Harmon's INTs were off deflections from the primary coverage guy)
Good info. I still don't understand PFFs goofy grading system
 
eh. I think he's lost a step. He's also whiffed on a few tackles. He's ok. I like him for his veteran presence and the fact we're unlikely to have a bad defensive formation or blown coverage with him in their, but that's his experience talking, not his physical presence to the extent it did in the past.

He hasn't lost a step. He was clocked as being the fastest ballcarrier in the NFL, this season, on that pick six vs. the Bills.
 
Somebody cares and some people take it seriously otherwise there wouldn’t be a PFF website and it wouldn’t be recognized as a standard player evaluation site.

Meh, most people are dumb. These grades, like most of their grades, are a joke.
 
He hasn't lost a step. He was clocked as being the fastest ballcarrier in the NFL, this season, on that pick six vs. the Bills.
I don't think he has either but reaction/twitchy speed & quickness is different than straight-line speed. Hell Herschel Walker still runs a 4.5
 
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