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Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

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Bullsh1t.

Although I'll admit in '14 I was like "holy crap, maybe we're seeing it happen." I sure wasn't rooting for it to happen, and I was plenty happen that Brady came back stronger.

You'll notice that in the 07 offseason, f'rinstance, they got Moss, Welker, and Stallworth, having whiffed on Jackson and Maroney (although at that point the jury was still out,) and with a Brady in his prime, unwilling and unable to send him out there another year without the firepower to do what they needed to do the previous season. (The rules had also just been changed to favor airing the ball out, although the NFL* phrased it as a "point of emphasis.")

This offseason they did add offseason firepower but they have also made moves (some during last season, some this offseason) to shore up the defense and (apparently) to have more options to pick from in the running game.

I don't think that means "Brady is out the door and soon," I think that means that BB et al. are managing risk. Of course one natural response is that "Yeah, that's why they kept JG, because you don't want to have a Cassel situation in 2017 without someone to play the Cassel role."

Either way they have a choice to make after 17, or after 18 if they want to spend double-digit millions of cap dollars to put the decision off a year. Whoever Kellerman is, if "age is a number" and Brady just gets better this year, I dunno WHO has the balls to show him the door.

OTOH if they're looking at him the way we'd look like a stock, can you think of a better example of buying low and selling high?

The alternative narrative -- that he's the GOAT so he always starts forever and ever until he dies of heart surgery complications at the age of 80 -- is the opposite. You'll end up getting nothing for him.

So don't name me as wanting him gone. Count me as wanting to trust professional risk managers to manage risk.

And stop being simpleminded and looking for an enemy. Risk is never simple. You don't know the future. Neither do I.

I have a friend who urged me to buy Apple stock when that first bowling-bag-sized MacIntosh came out. He turned out to be right. He drank all the Kool-Aid. He knew Steve Jobs dropped acid and Bill Gates didn't. He knew that Steve Jobs learned calligraphy. He told me all the stories of the Apple II and the garage. He bought a few shares of Apple and told me he was going to plow whatever he made into more shares of Apple. We were both in our 20s. Then we lost touch.

If he held on when Jobs was kicked out he still made a tidy little sum, but he's not super rich. If he held on through the Scully years, I am sure he's filthy rich.

On the other hand, if he decided he has a crystal ball, fell in love with some Dot Com entrepreneur in the 90s, and loaded up on Enron or something, not so much.

People who brag about their smart stock choices aren't usually keeping a moving balance sheet and tracking against the moving average of a broad basket of stocks. They brag and brag, note that they just made 40K by taking a big risk on a stock that doubled, buy a sweet new ride, and disregard the other 40K of risk they have hanging out there (then dot-commiserate when a market or a stock tanks).

Just a more tangible example of how risk works. Of course nobody on the board has anything but emotional stock in Brady. And of all the emotional stockholders, I think that you've bought in up to the eyeballs.

Great bet, to start out with. We're lucky - we all got to buy low in 2001. If Brady were a stock, this would be the wrong time to re-invest. The quibbling is over a year or two or three here or there, not on whether the stock will tank.

I am all for him making it to 45 with 5 more SB rings in a Patriots uniform. And by the way in that Chiefs game season, you really think hearing/seeing "this might be the end for Brady" had no effect on him?

If you think a fan like me is lining up at that door ready to kick TFB through, well, that's bullsh1t. You're making up an imaginary me and sticking him into your cookie cutter of "brady hating" Pats fans. But if Brady responds to such opinions by proving them wrong... you want me at that door. You need me at that door.

Blah

Blah

Blah

Blah

Blah


Brady isn't a stock he's a football player, and his performance matters much much more than your opinions does, regardless of how high your opinions of yourself is

Fact-Brady is the best player in football.

Fact-Jimmy Garrapolo couldn't make it through two games when he was needed for four.

Fact-Jimmy Garrapolo couldn't make it through a non contact mini camp.
 
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Bullsh1t.

Although I'll admit in '14 I was like "holy crap, maybe we're seeing it happen." I sure wasn't rooting for it to happen, and I was plenty happen that Brady came back stronger.

You'll notice that in the 07 offseason, f'rinstance, they got Moss, Welker, and Stallworth, having whiffed on Jackson and Maroney (although at that point the jury was still out,) and with a Brady in his prime, unwilling and unable to send him out there another year without the firepower to do what they needed to do the previous season. (The rules had also just been changed to favor airing the ball out, although the NFL* phrased it as a "point of emphasis.")

This offseason they did add offseason firepower but they have also made moves (some during last season, some this offseason) to shore up the defense and (apparently) to have more options to pick from in the running game.

I don't think that means "Brady is out the door and soon," I think that means that BB et al. are managing risk. Of course one natural response is that "Yeah, that's why they kept JG, because you don't want to have a Cassel situation in 2017 without someone to play the Cassel role."

Either way they have a choice to make after 17, or after 18 if they want to spend double-digit millions of cap dollars to put the decision off a year. Whoever Kellerman is, if "age is a number" and Brady just gets better this year, I dunno WHO has the balls to show him the door.

OTOH if they're looking at him the way we'd look like a stock, can you think of a better example of buying low and selling high?

The alternative narrative -- that he's the GOAT so he always starts forever and ever until he dies of heart surgery complications at the age of 80 -- is the opposite. You'll end up getting nothing for him.

So don't name me as wanting him gone. Count me as wanting to trust professional risk managers to manage risk.

And stop being simpleminded and looking for an enemy. Risk is never simple. You don't know the future. Neither do I.

I have a friend who urged me to buy Apple stock when that first bowling-bag-sized MacIntosh came out. He turned out to be right. He drank all the Kool-Aid. He knew Steve Jobs dropped acid and Bill Gates didn't. He knew that Steve Jobs learned calligraphy. He told me all the stories of the Apple II and the garage. He bought a few shares of Apple and told me he was going to plow whatever he made into more shares of Apple. We were both in our 20s. Then we lost touch.

If he held on when Jobs was kicked out he still made a tidy little sum, but he's not super rich. If he held on through the Scully years, I am sure he's filthy rich.

On the other hand, if he decided he has a crystal ball, fell in love with some Dot Com entrepreneur in the 90s, and loaded up on Enron or something, not so much.

People who brag about their smart stock choices aren't usually keeping a moving balance sheet and tracking against the moving average of a broad basket of stocks. They brag and brag, note that they just made 40K by taking a big risk on a stock that doubled, buy a sweet new ride, and disregard the other 40K of risk they have hanging out there (then dot-commiserate when a market or a stock tanks).

Just a more tangible example of how risk works. Of course nobody on the board has anything but emotional stock in Brady. And of all the emotional stockholders, I think that you've bought in up to the eyeballs.

Great bet, to start out with. We're lucky - we all got to buy low in 2001. If Brady were a stock, this would be the wrong time to re-invest. The quibbling is over a year or two or three here or there, not on whether the stock will tank.

I am all for him making it to 45 with 5 more SB rings in a Patriots uniform. And by the way in that Chiefs game season, you really think hearing/seeing "this might be the end for Brady" had no effect on him?

If you think a fan like me is lining up at that door ready to kick TFB through, well, that's bullsh1t. You're making up an imaginary me and sticking him into your cookie cutter of "brady hating" Pats fans. But if Brady responds to such opinions by proving them wrong... you want me at that door. You need me at that door.


I have never seen anyone so infatuated with their own voice.
 
Man am I living rent-free in this guy's head. Two invective-filled responses to the same post. Still no cogent argument.

::waving at Ivan:: I'll re-set the thermostat in your amygdala and hook your Wernicke's and Broca's areas back up when I leave
 
Bullsh1t.

Although I'll admit in '14 I was like "holy crap, maybe we're seeing it happen." I sure wasn't rooting for it to happen, and I was plenty happen that Brady came back stronger.

You'll notice that in the 07 offseason, f'rinstance, they got Moss, Welker, and Stallworth, having whiffed on Jackson and Maroney (although at that point the jury was still out,) and with a Brady in his prime, unwilling and unable to send him out there another year without the firepower to do what they needed to do the previous season. (The rules had also just been changed to favor airing the ball out, although the NFL* phrased it as a "point of emphasis.")

This offseason they did add offseason firepower but they have also made moves (some during last season, some this offseason) to shore up the defense and (apparently) to have more options to pick from in the running game.

I don't think that means "Brady is out the door and soon," I think that means that BB et al. are managing risk. Of course one natural response is that "Yeah, that's why they kept JG, because you don't want to have a Cassel situation in 2017 without someone to play the Cassel role."

Either way they have a choice to make after 17, or after 18 if they want to spend double-digit millions of cap dollars to put the decision off a year. Whoever Kellerman is, if "age is a number" and Brady just gets better this year, I dunno WHO has the balls to show him the door.

OTOH if they're looking at him the way we'd look like a stock, can you think of a better example of buying low and selling high?

The alternative narrative -- that he's the GOAT so he always starts forever and ever until he dies of heart surgery complications at the age of 80 -- is the opposite. You'll end up getting nothing for him.

So don't name me as wanting him gone. Count me as wanting to trust professional risk managers to manage risk.

And stop being simpleminded and looking for an enemy. Risk is never simple. You don't know the future. Neither do I.

I have a friend who urged me to buy Apple stock when that first bowling-bag-sized MacIntosh came out. He turned out to be right. He drank all the Kool-Aid. He knew Steve Jobs dropped acid and Bill Gates didn't. He knew that Steve Jobs learned calligraphy. He told me all the stories of the Apple II and the garage. He bought a few shares of Apple and told me he was going to plow whatever he made into more shares of Apple. We were both in our 20s. Then we lost touch.

If he held on when Jobs was kicked out he still made a tidy little sum, but he's not super rich. If he held on through the Scully years, I am sure he's filthy rich.

On the other hand, if he decided he has a crystal ball, fell in love with some Dot Com entrepreneur in the 90s, and loaded up on Enron or something, not so much.

People who brag about their smart stock choices aren't usually keeping a moving balance sheet and tracking against the moving average of a broad basket of stocks. They brag and brag, note that they just made 40K by taking a big risk on a stock that doubled, buy a sweet new ride, and disregard the other 40K of risk they have hanging out there (then dot-commiserate when a market or a stock tanks).

Just a more tangible example of how risk works. Of course nobody on the board has anything but emotional stock in Brady. And of all the emotional stockholders, I think that you've bought in up to the eyeballs.

Great bet, to start out with. We're lucky - we all got to buy low in 2001. If Brady were a stock, this would be the wrong time to re-invest. The quibbling is over a year or two or three here or there, not on whether the stock will tank.

I am all for him making it to 45 with 5 more SB rings in a Patriots uniform. And by the way in that Chiefs game season, you really think hearing/seeing "this might be the end for Brady" had no effect on him?

If you think a fan like me is lining up at that door ready to kick TFB through, well, that's bullsh1t. You're making up an imaginary me and sticking him into your cookie cutter of "brady hating" Pats fans. But if Brady responds to such opinions by proving them wrong... you want me at that door. You need me at that door.


You complain about being misrepresented yet you try to argue that those who take Brady at his word that he wants to play 5 more years are saying he will play until he's "80," and demand to know if he is going to be at QB for the Patriots in "2027."

Hypocrite much?

It's very clear that you are trying to obscuscate the discussion because you cannot support your position with any actual facts regarding Brady's play or his own words regarding his future.

To be as clear as possible, I believe Brady when he says he wants to play 5 more years. He backs this up through his play, his work ethic, and his performance.

If you can challenge him on any of those positions then go for it, stock market analogies and mythical analogies are completely irrelevant and simply show that you cannot deal with the reality so you go to your fantasies instead.
 
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Man am I living rent-free in this guy's head. Two invective-filled responses to the same post. Still no cogent argument.

::waving at Ivan:: I'll re-set the thermostat in your amygdala and hook your Wernicke's and Broca's areas back up when I leave


15-1

Super Bowl MVP

28 touchdowns. 2 interceptions

Your turn.
 
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Given the question posed in the thread title, the three names offered in support of the disloyalty position, and the 49% of Browns fans supporting the decision to boot Kosar, I believe the definitive answer to that question is no. By my math, there are more than 6.12 members of this forum.

Question answered. Proceed with the call for demonstrable devotion to TB12. For the true loyalists I would be more impressed to hear how many of you named your kids Tom Brady when your last name is not Brady . . . and the kid is a girl. Now that is true devotion.

As for Bernie Kosar, there is only one reason I believe his name should be invoked in this forum (or any NFL discussion for that matter) . . . .

 
I went back and read the last posts by the three names in Ivan's post. They did not support a disloyalty position, nor did they communicate the "suggested" rant by Brady's self-appointed deputies. However, MassPats38 makes a good point in naming children (Female) after a Boston legend.
 
I went back and read the last posts by the three names in Ivan's post. They did not support a disloyalty position, nor did they communicate the "suggested" rant by Brady's self-appointed deputies. However, MassPats38 makes a good point in naming children (Female) after a Boston legend.


I have read all of their posts on the subject and while they are devoid of so much as one fact supporting a deterioration in Brady's game they have been steadfast in supporting the idea of keeping Garrapolo to replace Brady.

And while I am 100% on Brady's side when it comes to the idea that he can continue playing at a high level for another 5 seasons, and I have outlined the reasons why repeatedly, I didn't even enter this thread until it was around 30 pages long, and I entered into it to respond to Azpatsfan's idiotic claim that the Super Bowl is the reason the Patriots should dump Brady in favor of Garrapolo.

So tell us how this thread has gone over 40 pages if no one is arguing in favor of Garrapolo replacing Brady?
 
When the Celtics were no longer World Champions did they shove Bird, McHale, or Parish out the door? Nah, they kept them around and suffered decades of misfortune. Just sayin....


What's your point?
 
Only the drama queens on this forum could create a QB controversy where there is none. Then you have the posters on the forum who try to pretend they dont want to get rid of Brady now even though they are passively aggressively lobbying for getting rid of Brady.

Of course the loyalty factor goes right out the window when you life revolves around your ****ing football team winning games since you have nothing else in your life going right. And its not like TB has shown any sign of slowing down, in fact the contrary. Then we have that loyalty factor again......you know loyalty - for a kinda special player.

"My football team could lose a game because Tom is old and JG is better" boo ****king hoo.

I guarantee you that the posters who want Brady gone - in any respect - unless he is incapable of playing at a decent NFL level are the posters who have no concept of loyalty and have never been shown any, by anyone. To them it has no bearing on anything.
 
Nobody is throwing him under the bus we are realists simply put I'd bet my house a 26 year old Grap is the better move than a 41 year old Brady.
That's 15 years difference
.

Want to double down in your claim that Chris R isn't lobbying to get rid of Brady Scout?
 
Brady is going to be 40 soon 41 next year, if Jimmys it then Brady has to go for the long term success of this team, if he can keep this train rolling then you know what move has to be made, franchise qbs don't grow on trees


..........
 
Through 3 Quarters of the SuperBowl, Brady looked like he was in heavy decline,including a Pick Six. 'He reached back and performed well as the Defense constantly kept giving him the ball in the late 3rd and 4th Quarter of SB LI.

That is typical of how a QB declines. Good and Bad play until the bad vastly outnumbers the good intervals.




.............


Want to make that claim again Scout?
 
I have read all of their posts on the subject and while they are devoid of so much as one fact supporting a deterioration in Brady's game they have been steadfast in supporting the idea of keeping Garrapolo to replace Brady.

And while I am 100% on Brady's side when it comes to the idea that he can continue playing at a high level for another 5 seasons, and I have outlined the reasons why repeatedly, I didn't even enter this thread until it was around 30 pages long, and I entered into it to respond to Azpatsfan's idiotic claim that the Super Bowl is the reason the Patriots should dump Brady in favor of Garrapolo.

So tell us how this thread has gone over 40 pages if no one is arguing in favor of Garrapolo replacing Brady?


Thanks for " liking" my Superbowl post. Brady is a human being. QBs are measured by reulkts of his Team. His QB play for almost three quarters resulted in his Team scoring 3 points,and personally throwing a pick six.

If that is not an indication that he is not Superman, then that is a good approximation. Great QBs can rally his TEAM, and Brady reached back, (along with the Defense!), to stage a late game heroics, and food for the ages.

Brady is the GOAT. Period. That does not make him immortal.
 
Thanks for " liking" my Superbowl post. Brady is a human being. QBs are measured by reulkts of his Team. His QB play for almost three quarters resulted in his Team scoring 3 points,and personally throwing a pick six.

If that is not an indication that he is not Superman, then that is a good approximation. Great QBs can rally his TEAM, and Brady reached back, (along with the Defense!), to stage a late game heroics, and food for the ages.

Brady is the GOAT. Period. That does not make him immortal.


You are an idiot. If it got a like then it was big fingered. I must have used my middle finger as that is what it deserves.
 
You are an idiot. If it got a like then it was big fingered. I must have used my middle finger as that is what it deserves.


Thanx. I appreciate your thoughtful post. It was well thought out.
 
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