Florio: Browns laying foundation for trade down (Garrett not their sure #1)

[Ring 6]

In the 1993 scenario, am I swimming in excess draft picks and are there nothing but future EJ Manuels in the draft pool? Because if so I gladly trade the #12 overall pick and next year's #1 or something at that level.

They don't have excess picks. And the patriots drafted drew Bledsoe.

The question wasn't trading for next year it was trading for an unproven QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick highly values Garopollo and is fine with foregoing multiple draft picks for him.

We don't know what he is willing to forgoe. We don't know what was offered or will be.

It offsets risk when this comes from the best GM/talent evaluator in the NFL. I'm pretty sure if they could acquire him for a mid-round pick (which would be going rate for an average backup QB with a year remaining on his rookie deal), they might also start to wonder why Belichick is so willing to move on. Belichick is willing to walk away from a huge payoff of draft picks, and he probably will. That in itself is telling.

Not if he believes he can get just as much next year. And we do not know at all that he has turned down a huge payoff if drat picks.
If he has only been offered a second or third that changes what you seem to be calling fact.

Being Brady's teammate, in addition to learning the craft from him, certainly connects to your other "points". It is an automatic mark down of a player's abilities because he didn't usurp the best quarterback in the league?

No. it's a markdown because he sat idle for most of 3 years.

Because any other quarterback in the entire NFL would have played a maximum of four games over the last three seasons if they were Brady's backup. Aaron Rodgers was terrible as Favre's backup, and Steve Young was a joke as Montana's backup. Isn't that the logical conclusion here?

who ever said anything about not beating out Brady. You do accept that a QB out on the football field playing improves more than one holding a clipboard right?

[quoye]Beyond that, there is no reason to even argue with you. The Browns already believe Garopollo is better than any QB prospect in the draft; that isn't even debatable. [/quote]
Did they tell you that? Your guess about what someone else thinks isn't even debatable? Wow.

You are arguing that they would be better off using a draft pick on a quarterback, even though they clearly don't like those draft pick options and are intent on acquiring Garopollo instead.

I am? Thanks for creating an argument for me that I am not making.

Again the browns don't seem very intent on acquiring garapollo or they would have. They certainly gave enough assets to give BB a deal he can't refuse.

They have settled for "projects" in the past and landed big prizes in Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel. I guess they should just roll the dice on a 22 year old with major question marks because Garopollo, even though he is their top rated available quarterback, has been a bench warmer behind Tom Brady.

Garoppolo is also a project. 6 quarters didn't make him a finished product, mature experienced veteran.

You are now making up
1) that you can read Cleveland mind and
2) an opinion you attribute to me that I never said.

Nice job.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We don't know what he is willing to forgoe. We don't know what was offered or will be.



Not if he believes he can get just as much next year. And we do not know at all that he has turned down a huge payoff if drat picks.
If he has only been offered a second or third that changes what you seem to be calling fact.


No. it's a markdown because he sat idle for most of 3 years.



who ever said anything about not beating out Brady. You do accept that a QB out on the football field playing improves more than one holding a clipboard right?

[quoye]Beyond that, there is no reason to even argue with you. The Browns already believe Garopollo is better than any QB prospect in the draft; that isn't even debatable.

Did they tell you that? Your guess about what someone else thinks isn't even debatable? Wow.



I am? Thanks for creating an argument for me that I am not making.

Again the browns don't seem very intent on acquiring garapollo or they would have. They certainly gave enough assets to give BB a deal he can't refuse.



Garoppolo is also a project. 6 quarters didn't make him a finished product, mature experienced veteran.

You are now making up
1) that you can read Cleveland mind and
2) an opinion you attribute to me that I never said.

Nice job.[/QUOTE]

Playing zero NFL games because you have been playing in college is very different than playing a game and a half and sitting the rest of 3 years.

No. it's a markdown because he sat idle for most of 3 years.

What were you trying to say here? These were the quotes that I was referencing. If I am wrong I apologize. Are you implying that an NFL player on a full-time conditioning program has a disadvantage to a college kid who practices a few times a week and is a full-time student? And you think the NFL backup quarterback doesn't have an huge edge in maturity, fast decision making, game speed, understanding defenses, leadership, and how the league works? Maybe you think Garopollo holds a clipboard all year while not even stretching, and just kind of wastes away as he melts into the bench.

You are now making up
1) that you can read Cleveland mind and

Did they tell you that? Your guess about what someone else thinks isn't even debatable? Wow.

Just so I understand this correctly, you believe that Cleveland does not rate Jimmy Garopollo ahead of every quarterback in this draft, or that it's impossible to know? Numerous reports from direct sources within the organization has confirmed they are making a very, very aggressive run at Garopollo and willing to part with the #12 and other picks. Please explain, if there were a quarterback in the draft who they would push as aggressively for, why they wouldn't just draft this guy and keep all of their picks? Is that unsound reasoning, or do you just think all of the numerous reports about trade offers are lies?

 

[s3antana5757]

One thing that people fail to mention with any Jimmy G trade is the fact that you can take a QB with one of those picks and reset the FA clock. Now, they may not have the talent that Jimmy has, but with a few years in the system until Brady moves on, it's a move that could pay dividends in the long run. Would you be ok with Barnett and a QB next year? Or Trubinsky and a pick next year? Just something to consider.

 

[stinkypete]

From Cleveland's end, you have to look to trade #1 overall if you don't plan to use it for a QB. The trade value for top 2 picks is so high that the potential payoff - multiple 1st through 3rd round picks in multiple years - has to be considered. If Cleveland sees a path to land, say Leonard Fournette and Malik Hooker, and to push value into 2018, then that is probably worth more than Myles Garrett.

I also believe that Belichick will listen to any call about Garoppolo, but that he wants value in 2018, where the QB class is stronger and deeper. I don't believe that talks have gone beyond Cleveland pitching offers and getting turned down, they could view 2018 picks as enough trade bait to change Belichick's mind.

 

[Rdforty2]

One thing that people fail to mention with any Jimmy G trade is the fact that you can take a QB with one of those picks and reset the FA clock. Now, they may not have the talent that Jimmy has, but with a few years in the system until Brady moves on, it's a move that could pay dividends in the long run. Would you be ok with Barnett and a QB next year? Or Trubinsky and a pick next year? Just something to consider.

That's actually a thought I've had for awhile. I know the argument is that you want Jimmy around in case Brady gets hurt, but I don't see why Brissett can't handle the reigns for the rest of the year. Even as a placeholder, we have so much talent around him, I think he's capable.

If they aren't sold on Brissett long term, you'd have the chance at one of the top QB's this year. Even Peterman in the second would be a good fit and good value. And you get extra picks on top of it. Barnett, Peterman (2 from Cle) and a 2nd next year is better than Jimmy G on the bench imo. That gives you a young QB for 4 more years, which is a better situation to have someone sit behind Brady.

Of course, I'm also good giving Brissett more time to prove himself (and popping for a QB next year if need be), and using the two picks from Cleveland on a pass rusher and OT.

 

[Rdforty2]

From Cleveland's end, you have to look to trade #1 overall if you don't plan to use it for a QB. The trade value for top 2 picks is so high that the potential payoff - multiple 1st through 3rd round picks in multiple years - has to be considered. If Cleveland sees a path to land, say Leonard Fournette and Malik Hooker, and to push value into 2018, then that is probably worth more than Myles Garrett.

I also believe that Belichick will listen to any call about Garoppolo, but that he wants value in 2018, where the QB class is stronger and deeper. I don't believe that talks have gone beyond Cleveland pitching offers and getting turned down, they could view 2018 picks as enough trade bait to change Belichick's mind.

I disagree. They already have what, 9 picks in the first 2 rounds this next and next? How many do you need? A QB, a LT, and a game changing pass rusher arr all worth #1. Garrett is definitely worth keeping the pick for. The Browns have some decent players on their roster. It's that they lack the difference makers at QB and on the pass rush. Getting a QB puts the offense together (not saying it makes them a top unit but they have some talent on the OL, and Coleman, Barnidge, and Crowell are solid as well). On D, they need someone that changes the way the offense blocks. You will have to double Garrett on every snap. That gives COllins, Kirksey, Shelton, and Co more opportunities to make plays.

If they traded 12, a 2 this year, and a 2 next year for Garoppolo, that atill gices them Garrett (and now have landed the two big needs), and they still have 2 2's this year and next, as well as their 1 next year to add to it. That's still a lot of talent to add to the unit, all while filling their top 2 needs.

For the Patriots, I just don't see how you can pass on that offer, if it comes up. For a guy that realistically sits all year, then you have to pay $20mill to sit the bench again.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

From Cleveland's end, you have to look to trade #1 overall if you don't plan to use it for a QB. The trade value for top 2 picks is so high that the potential payoff - multiple 1st through 3rd round picks in multiple years - has to be considered. If Cleveland sees a path to land, say Leonard Fournette and Malik Hooker, and to push value into 2018, then that is probably worth more than Myles Garrett.

I also believe that Belichick will listen to any call about Garoppolo, but that he wants value in 2018, where the QB class is stronger and deeper. I don't believe that talks have gone beyond Cleveland pitching offers and getting turned down, they could view 2018 picks as enough trade bait to change Belichick's mind.

This is true, but on the flip side, what kind of market is going to develop for the first pick when there isn't a must-draft quarterback? The Texans had a similar situation a few years ago and wanted to trade out of the first spot. Jadeveon Clowney was pretty similar in hype to Myles Garrett. No one bit, or if they did, it an offer of very little return to move up. If I recall correctly, there were some mid to late round picks floated, but nothing close to what the Texans hoped for. I would expect a similar situation this year, unless there are some teams that are secretively very high on a particular quarterback. By all accounts, that's probably not the case.

That's why I've been adamant that the Browns are overvaluing their first overall pick, stubbornly believing this pick has an extremely high value. It's value is only that high when there's a no brainer QB on the board. The report that they are now trying to trade down shows they are finally starting to understand the market...if they get no takers and still don't consider using it for their franchise QB of choice (Garopollo), then they are just dumb.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments:

1. Florio was just doing what ALL the mediots will be doing over the next few weeks until the draft actually happens and that is "clickbaiting". Speculating on anything at all that might connect 2 dots and selling the hell out of it. I don't blame them for the most part. They have to keep producing copy and podcasts, and if they just went by the fact, they'd be awfully short podcasts.

2. Cleveland would be dumb not to investigate any and all options right up to the minute they are on the clock. But I doubt they are moving out of the spot. They will take Garnett because no one will offer them enough to get them to move down.

3. Tribisky HAS to be the biggest click bait story of the season. I happened to catch a few minutes (during a commercial) of Gruden's QB camp show. They showed a few throws Mitch made. Most were short completions, none where spirals.

4. Think about this. Marcus Mariotta and Jameos Winston are 2 of the great SUCCESS stories of recent QB drafts, and NEITHER of them are close to being anywhere near their potentials. They are both being protected within their current offenses. Can Newton is another so called success story, if you don't count how he played 2 seasons ago and again last season, but man that season in between was SPECTACULAR .

It his really THAT hard to play QB consistently in this league and we take it far too for granted because he happen to have the exception to the rule playing for us. The fact is that it takes a LONG time for a QB to get to within 90% of his potentia than people realizel and is even HARDER to stay at that level for any length of time.

5. Personally I think that the Browns are insane for not giving us the #12 plus a few others for JG. Of course he'd be no sure bet, but he'd be a much better risk than anyone else they could spend that draft capital on, and 2nd place isn't close. I have to believe that their personnel people have made them aware of that. NONE of the top QB's in this draft class is any closer to play than Goeff was last season.

6. The only reason I can see for the Pats to keep JG on the team this season is because they don't expect Brady to be on it in 2018.

 

[skinnydog]

Some comments on the comments:

1. Florio was just doing what ALL the mediots will be doing over the next few weeks until the draft actually happens and that is "clickbaiting". Speculating on anything at all that might connect 2 dots and selling the hell out of it. I don't blame them for the most part. They have to keep producing copy and podcasts, and if they just went by the fact, they'd be awfully short podcasts.

2. Cleveland would be dumb not to investigate any and all options right up to the minute they are on the clock. But I doubt they are moving out of the spot. They will take Garnett because no one will offer them enough to get them to move down.

3. Tribisky HAS to be the biggest click bait story of the season. I happened to catch a few minutes (during a commercial) of Gruden's QB camp show. They showed a few throws Mitch made. Most were short completions, none where spirals.

4. Think about this. Marcus Mariotta and Jameos Winston are 2 of the great SUCCESS stories of recent QB drafts, and NEITHER of them are close to being anywhere near their potentials. They are both being protected within their current offenses. Can Newton is another so called success story, if you don't count how he played 2 seasons ago and again last season, but man that season in between was SPECTACULAR .

It his really THAT hard to play QB consistently in this league and we take it far too for granted because he happen to have the exception to the rule playing for us. The fact is that it takes a LONG time for a QB to get to within 90% of his potentia than people realizel and is even HARDER to stay at that level for any length of time.

5. Personally I think that the Browns are insane for not giving us the #12 plus a few others for JG. Of course he'd be no sure bet, but he'd be a much better risk than anyone else they could spend that draft capital on, and 2nd place isn't close. I have to believe that their personnel people have made them aware of that. NONE of the top QB's in this draft class is any closer to play than Goeff was last season.

6. The only reason I can see for the Pats to keep JG on the team this season is because they don't expect Brady to be on it in 2018.

This pretty much pretty much nails it on all aspects of the possible Jimmy G trade. the Browns are crazy if they do not go hard after Jimmy. They would get him after he's been in an NFL system for 3 years, the best system, and he looked very, very good in limited action. He went up against good Arizona and defenses and was accurate, appeared fully capably of reading NFL defenses, was able to look away from his first read on many occasions and go with the second or third option and most importantly reacted quickly and got rid of the ball quickly. They will also know immediately whether he is any good without first committing to a big contract. if Jimmy doesn't cut it, they can move on without a Brock Osweiler type of money commitment or the commitment you make to a first round choice.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The number one pick in the draft for a QB who has played a game and a half is insane. And you want more on top of that? I know fans overrate their own players and prospect, but that's just ridiculous.

The list of QBs drafted #1 with far less NFL experience than Garoppolo is a long one but that's never stopped teams from using the top pick on a QB

Is Garoppolo a better NFL QB than Sam Bradford, David Carr and Jamarcus Russell just to name a few? Absolutely.

Do we take points OFF his value because he's spent a few years playing for Belichick and alongside Brady?

I'd say just the opposite - he's worth more than a Jamarcus Russell etc. So one can make the case that he may even be worth MORE than just the #1

But if the Browns can trade back and fill some more needs and still trade the #1 pick for additional picks, plus and get their QB in Garoppolo for a later first rounder, they'd be fools not to do so.

 

[Ring 6]

Did they tell you that? Your guess about what someone else thinks isn't even debatable? Wow.



I am? Thanks for creating an argument for me that I am not making.

Again the browns don't seem very intent on acquiring garapollo or they would have. They certainly gave enough assets to give BB a deal he can't refuse.



Garoppolo is also a project. 6 quarters didn't make him a finished product, mature experienced veteran.

You are now making up
1) that you can read Cleveland mind and
2) an opinion you attribute to me that I never said.

Nice job.

Playing zero NFL games because you have been playing in college is very different than playing a game and a half and sitting the rest of 3 years.

No. it's a markdown because he sat idle for most of 3 years.

What were you trying to say here? These were the quotes that I was referencing. If I am wrong I apologize. Are you implying that an NFL player on a full-time conditioning program has a disadvantage to a college kid who practices a few times a week and is a full-time student? And you think the NFL backup quarterback doesn't have an huge edge in maturity, fast decision making, game speed, understanding defenses, leadership, and how the league works? Maybe you think Garopollo holds a clipboard all year while not even stretching, and just kind of wastes away as he melts into the bench.

You are now making up
1) that you can read Cleveland mind and

Did they tell you that? Your guess about what someone else thinks isn't even debatable? Wow.

Just so I understand this correctly, you believe that Cleveland does not rate Jimmy Garopollo ahead of every quarterback in this draft, or that it's impossible to know? Numerous reports from direct sources within the organization has confirmed they are making a very, very aggressive run at Garopollo and willing to part with the #12 and other picks. Please explain, if there were a quarterback in the draft who they would push as aggressively for, why they wouldn't just draft this guy and keep all of their picks? Is that unsound reasoning, or do you just think all of the numerous reports about trade offers are lies?

reports of what a team thinks of a player or what they would be willing to trade are not fact. The team cannot actually talk publicly about the player because is tampering rules.
There is talk now that Cleveland feels so highly about tribusky that they may select him #1 overall.
Can I use that as evidence that they really don't like garopollo and love tribusky.
You just can't take rumors and reports and use them as fact. You not only are doing that but you are using it to conclude with 100% certainty that BB won't trade jg for anything and that Cleveland would give anything he asked.
It's just not the case.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He didn't shred the cardinals. He played ok.
Goff wasn't drafted for 2017. By his 3rd year you can compare him to where garoppolo was last year.

Just flip the script for a minute. Back in 1993 when the patriots were pretty much what the browns are now are you seriously telling me you would have traded the #1 plus next years number 1 for a QB who was drafted in the late second round 3 years ago, and has sat on the bench for 3 years except for starting 1 game and playing decent then starting a second and playing a really good half but getting injured and wasn't able to play the next 2 games at least.

The rest of the world doesn't think just because he is a patriot the only thing that exists is his best case projection.

Why does a draft class in 1993 have any relevance to 2017? You might as well throw in Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck as top QBs who the team picking first were going to draft at all costs. Parcells thought Bledsoe was going to be great, and that is why he drafted him.

You get into multiple threads about the Browns and their interest in Garoppollo. Why do even care? Whenever someone makes the key point - which is that multiple reports, many of them intentionally from the team - already have unambiguously stated the Browns want Garoppolo and don't have a lot of interest in this year's draftable QBs. Just yesterday, it was confirmed the Browns are still trying to trade for him, even though they have their choice of any quarterback. How convenient that all of these rumblings are just a bunch of noise. It allows you to foolishly continue making silly points that we know nothing about the Browns thinking, and therefore your ideas, which require ignoring a wealth of reports, is equally, if not more valid. And that allows you to pretend to have validity. The Browns want Garoppollo badly, so anything you say to argue against that, or any "you don't know what they are thinking" comes across as eithe naive or incredibly defensive.

Also, can you ever concede a single point without tit-for-tatting. You corrected someone who said the Browns have an "excess" of picks, saying it is not an "excess". Really? You corrected someone who said JG "torched the Cardinals, saying he played "ok". Really?

It's petty.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

reports of what a team thinks of a player or what they would be willing to trade are not fact. The team cannot actually talk publicly about the player because is tampering rules.
There is talk now that Cleveland feels so highly about tribusky that they may select him #1 overall.
Can I use that as evidence that they really don't like garopollo and love tribusky.
You just can't take rumors and reports and use them as fact. You not only are doing that but you are using it to conclude with 100% certainty that BB won't trade jg for anything and that Cleveland would give anything he asked.
It's just not the case.

Lol...alright I'm out. Thanks for clearly outing yourself rather than just implying it. Schefter and about a dozen other reliable insiders are all in on it...really committed to the lie.

 

[Ring 6]

Why does a draft class in 1993 have any relevance to 2017? You might as well throw in Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck as top QBs who the team picking first were going to draft at all costs. Parcells thought Bledsoe was going to be great, and that is why he drafted him.

You get into multiple threads about the Browns and their interest in Garoppollo. Why do even care? Whenever someone makes the key point - which is that multiple reports, many of them intentionally from the team - already have unambiguously stated the Browns want Garoppolo and don't have a lot of interest in this year's draftable QBs. Just yesterday, it was confirmed the Browns are still trying to trade for him, even though they have their choice of any quarterback. How convenient that all of these rumblings are just a bunch of noise. It allows you to foolishly continue making silly points that we know nothing about the Browns thinking, and therefore your ideas, which require ignoring a wealth of reports, is equally, if not more valid. And that allows you to pretend to have validity. The Browns want Garoppollo badly, so anything you say to argue against that, or any "you don't know what they are thinking" comes across as eithe naive or incredibly defensive.

Also, can you ever concede a single point without tit-for-tatting. You corrected someone who said the Browns have an "excess" of picks, saying it is not an "excess". Really? You corrected someone who said JG "torched the Cardinals, saying he played "ok". Really?

It's petty.

Reports are not fact. Ironically you are accusing me of using that to make a point (which my point is simply we just don't know) while you are concluding your entire argument on them. I guess we should talk about the great career Vernon gholston had here after BB traded upbfor him.

And garopollo did not Torch the cardinals. That is a fact. And the browns won 1 game. You can't have an excess of picks when you win 1 game.

petty? Because I have an opinion you don't like? Child please.

 

[Ring 6]

Lol...alright I'm out. Thanks for clearly outing yourself rather than just implying it. Schefter and about a dozen other reliable insiders are all in on it...really committed to the lie.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Rumors are not fact. The NFL is a league of rumors many of which are inaccurate. That's not lying, that's reporting rumors.
Unfortunately you are too gullible to not understand rumor isn't fact.

 

[BlueThunder]

Its hard for me to belive that BB will go into this draft with no 1st and 2nd rnd picks, it will kill him to watch all the talent come off the board and not be able to have a pick.

Does he really NEED a starter at ANY position this year ??

IMHO I believe he will looking at reliable players as backups.......and if one of his binkies falls, he'll grab him

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

5. Personally I think that the Browns are insane for not giving us the #12 plus a few others for JG. Of course he'd be no sure bet, but he'd be a much better risk than anyone else they could spend that draft capital on, and 2nd place isn't close. I have to believe that their personnel people have made them aware of that. NONE of the top QB's in this draft class is any closer to play than Goeff was last season.

6. The only reason I can see for the Pats to keep JG on the team this season is because they don't expect Brady to be on it in 2018.

Did you read your point #5?
It is not a known fact that Cleve is offering us #12, plus others. Therefore your point 6 may NOT be the ONLY reason.

If actual real world offers for JAG are "just" 2nd round picks I can see BB possibly just keeping the guy for 2017 as an insurance policy and perhaps getting a 3rd round for him as a 2019 comp pick. I'd trade him for a high 2nd + but BB might not. I'm not a GM.

 

[DW Toys]

Yeah I agree he sucked in Houston and I don't know what game or in what kind of state DW Toys watched that game, Houston were never on it even when the Patriots were shooting themselves in the foot.

But, he played Ok in Denver in that system, mechanics a part, at least from a pressure perspective. In Houston though he was like a deer in the headlights. We don't know what happened indoors, maybe he was under a lot of pressure from the ownership because of his contract, maybe BoB somehow ****ed up early approaching him like "Look kid, nothing against you, you are not my guy, you are a Rick Smith hire, but since you are already here let's work this out". You say this thing to a guy mentally strong and he will make you eat those words, Osweiller may have crapped his pants, of course, all speculative here, but considering that right now BoB has mismanaged his QB situations many times I don't doubt he somehow ****ed this too, he's a good coach, but he needs to prove he can manage the QB situation, so far he messed up everytime he needed to step up.

So obviously after a frustrating season Houston didn't insist in that mistake, they were 100% right this time, it was going to only get worse, but that doesn't mean Osweiller can't work out elsewhere, by work out I mean being a game manager in a team with talent distributed in other positions.

Cousin, My point is that Osweiler will never be mistaken for Brady or Manning, but as an emergency QB, he has played in a few more games than JG including two playoff games to JG's 0. You can argue all you want about that game but the first half Osweiler was better than TB. You are right in the second.

I am a Jimmy G guy, but as of now he is the back up QB . I would like to keep him but not at the sake of ignoring picks who might help us more this year than a kid holding a clip board that we all hope to God that he does not play. He was the QB that got hurt this year, not Brady so everytime you get on the field it is a gamble. Who is Rodgers back uup? I don't know. Could he do what Rodgers can? Nope!. This just does not make sense to put a back up QB on a pedestal. He is currency.

If we get a top two or three LB and/or a pass rusher for Jimmy G even up, would you take that deal? If they are top flight talent and I am BB pull the trigger.
DW Toys

 

[carmelo15]

I was reading 'New England Patriots Could Land Richard Sherman in Wild Three-Way Trade on Draft Day' on FanSided for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
New England Patriots Could Land Richard Sherman in Wild Three-Way Trade on Draft Day

Agree with this article

Browns: Jimmy G
Seahawks: 12 and 4th rounder
Patriots: Sherman(trade 12), 33, 2018 2nd

Follow up by trading Butler for Saints 2nd and a 3rd.

We'd leave the draft with Sherman, 33, 52, a extra 3rd and a future 2nd