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Roster Moves & Evaluation: Intense week ahead of Pats (and us)

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1) BB's anatomy of collapse + Brady's coming back to the house - loud

2) Injuries
- Bolden and Valentine out of the game
- Butler (looked like knee), Blount (looked like hip), Bennett (says he's good) banged up - not a good day for B's
- Garoppolo 1-2 more weeks, Brissett possibly to have a procedure (per Rapoport)
- Cooper, Rowe - ?
- Hightower & Gronk (also McClellin, Cannon) clearly not close to 100%
- PUP - Lewis (good signs), Vollmer (bad signs last time checked), Tre Jackson (no signs)

3) Roster moves
- With the injury situation above its not gonna be an easy job for FO.
- Waddle, Foster, Roberts were healthy scratches - but they are healthy!

4) Recurring Q
- Cyrus is getting less secure at return by each game
- Gost's misses spilling over from preseason
- Coleman adequacy (Cyrus substituted him vs HOU; both are struggling)
- White pretty absent - a lot of load on Blount
- Harbor & Derby nonexistent/not used on offense

Let's hope most of the pieces fall together by the time we face tough part of the schedule: CIN, @PIT, @BUF
 
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What I meant here is that this week (and possibly the next month of October) is not going to be just about the 2 spots for Brady and Ninko (and hopefully Lewis soon) .. it seems like evaluation of the roster combined with injury situation before the season starts anew with Brady

Here are the three early morning articles as an intro to this discussion .. talking about reality check (especially of the D), analysis of snap count and use (and health) of Gronk:
Pats Posits: We’re On to Tom Brady
Snap counts: Gronkowski and Hightower see serious time vs Bills
Rob Gronkowski's production will rise once he's utilized less as blocker
_

Maybe the most transparent way to go about here is by positions:

@QB
Brady is back (probably at Gillette already). And many good things with him. There are no real Q here I guess .. but it will be interesting to see how the first games go in the aftermath of suspension. To put it simple: how quickly it starts clicking. Let's hope for his good start in Cleveland that would set him nicely for the rough part of the schedule immediately to follow .. and erase the strange experience of last months that took some toll on his nerves and pride - shown at times in the preseason incl. the Giants game). This was not an easy situation and lets keep in mind its not easy to erase it over night.
Garoppolo should be back to health in a couple of weeks and serve as a great back-up option.
Brissett - there are some ? about him going forward: 1) does this team needs 3 QBs; 2) how to best deal with his injury (some “reports“ suggesting a possibility of medical “procedure“); 3) what is best combination of team needs and rookie QB development.

@RB
Blount answered many Q here. Hope what looked like a hurt hip or higher leg at one point in the game yesterday is nothing serious. The Q that I have here is the very heavy workload for Blount and pretty marginal use of anybody else. White saw more snaps yesterday but most of them came in the 4th quarter after the game was given already (and after Blount “injury“ - he did come back for some snaps after it).
The big Q comes after them - who will be the back-up, at least untill Lewis returns? Bolden's injury looked quite serious, DJ Foster was healthy scratch 3 times and was projected by many to be cut this week. My feeling is they keep him until Lewis returns in a couple of weeks time hopefuly. The Q is do they use him? Or they bring Sankey from PS?
Another interesting development last week was bringing Reece for workout. Will they bring him in?
EDIT: Like our UptownPF suggested if Bolden is out this would make a lot of sense.

@WR
A thin but solid group with two guys - we don't know much about - on PS. With Brady they will start functioning to their potential. I am sorry we didn't keep Martin who would be a great back up in case of injuries - and also to the struggling kick return. It was a small bummer to lose Street from PS. It was a minor (but welcome) shock to cut ties with many WR prospects here and FO is clearly in the hunt for some credible WR back-ups since they continue bringing many WRs for workouts.

@TE
Bennett is a gem on and off the field .. blocking, receiving or running.
Gronk is still a Q. Reiss in the article above is arguing that his due is mainly due to tactical decisions not his hamstring condition .. though there are many indications (on the field but also in some of his words) that he is not close to unleash himself yet. A thing to monitor in the next days for sure.
Harbor's use diminished to the point that he was not on the field at all yesterday on O and was not used a lot (if at all) on STs for the first time (he was close to core ST in the two previous weeks). That would indicate the team is not comfortable with him and is a serious candidate to be cut sooner or later .. especially since they signed Scruggs - and cut Hughes and A Johnson in the process - so I guess they might be serious about him (he can be used on DL and ST as well).
Derby at least saw the field yesterday (only for a taste) but with Brissett-oriented game plan it was not likely he could be a factor. He has no ST value and (unlike Harbor) has PS eligibility but is IMO unlikely to clear waivers so it will be interesting if they keep him anyway for a while.

@OL
Waddle was a healthy scratch last 3 weeks and never saw the field this season. He is obviously the #4 tackle and probably cannot back up any other position. Many see him as a roster cut this week .. and a possible “shadow roster“ candidate in the next period. The fact that they did not activate him for the tough battle with Bills with Cannon coming from limited practice week also doesn't bode well. The only thing that can keep him on the roster is the fact that there are only 8 healthy OL at the moment incl. him and that Karras is a rookie eligible for PS. He is still very rough but can back up center and both guards.
The other Q is Cooper and his injury. I guess this week will finally tell us more about his status. Id be surprised if he is cut - since they paid him all his money for the season already and also Dante was high on him putting him clearly in the starting OL at the beginning of TC. If they put him on IR it probably means both Karras and Waddle stay (at least for a while).

@DL
Certainly the position to monitor closely in the next days. After last week's roster extravaganza (cuting both A Johnson and Hughes) and the injury to Valentine (back; left to locker room) this position that seemed so deep in the preseason suddenly is very thin. Brown saw close to 65% of the snaps which is far above normal (usually well below 50%) and Branch 58%. This will have to change.
Many Q here: some bodies have to come back here (A Johnson?, Hughes?) and in case of Valentine's injury maybe even former cuts like Kuhn or Knighton can get a second chance? (going by the preseason they offer much more in rotation then Hamilton currently on PS)

@DE
It will be interesting how they evaluate DE play especially pass rush but also play against a RB like McCoy since this should be one of the crucial aspects going against DEN, PIT & NYJ. In general Sheard, Long and Flowers did a good job but yesterday they did struggle somewhat. Ninko is coming back, Scruggs might come into play for this position. What I am most curious about is if they start using some Mingo in the next phase of the season.

@LB
I think that Hightower and McClellin are still not at 100%. Freeny is solid back up, looks better than last year.
The Q in the next week is E Roberts who was a healthy scratch 1st and last week. With Ninko coming back he would be the obvious cut now - but I feel BB really likes him and maybe doesn't want to lose him on waivers.

@CB
Some saw this as extremely deep and talented position in preseason but a lot of Q here in my view:
Coleman is up and down (also on snap count), Cyrus doesn't look fully ready to start either and Rowe hurt his ankle upon arrival. He was practicing last long week in some limited capacity so I do hope he can be available soon to boost the competition not only at CB but also on ST.
But first of all I hope to hear soon Butler is OK.

@S
McCourty and Chung are rocks. But they are always on the field. It seems they trust Richards less than last year to take some load off of Chung. Also his role on ST diminished. He was a 2nd rd pick and seemed BB's darling but it is nevertheless an interesting position to monitor.
I was surprised to see so little of Harmon on the field yesterday, also less snaps on ST. Hope nothing to it.

@ST
This is a snap count from Hills article:
Ebner (21), Mingo (21), Jones (21), King (16), Slater (16), Bolden (15), Harmon (10), Freeny (10), Richards (10).
If Bolden's injury is serious that means there is no way King goes although his role seems to change/diminish this year. The rest of the core group is very solid. The only player to fall out of the core group this week was Harbor (played 75% of St snaps last week. I guess that's telling.
_

Bottom line: this week (and a few next) is not going to be only about 2 cuts for TB and Ninko but about the final phase of 2016 Patriots roster building that might bring quite a few shake ups ..
 
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IR Brissett
Activate Brady
IR Bolden
Activate Sankey
Depending on Valentine resign the Browns d lineman
Cut Richards activate Nink
Cut Harbor sign Reese
Somehow add a kicker to the practice squad or bring more than 2 in for tryouts let Gost hear those footsteps.
Get Coleman off the field and give his snaps to Jones or lets get Rowe healthy.

Outcome 14 and 2 superbowl Champions.
 
 


So Ninkovich doesn't have to count until after this next game. Especially coming off injury, it wouldn't surprise me if they just wait until then.

(Oct 10 is next Monday)
 


So Ninkovich doesn't have to count until after this next game. Especially coming off injury, it wouldn't surprise me if they just wait until then.

(Oct 10 is next Monday)


Thats confusing.

IIRC they have until CoB on Thursday to make 2 roster moves (so TB12 and Nink) can rejoin the team

If I am comprehending correctly what Howe is saying, the Pats don't need to make a roster move until 10/10 (providing they apply for an extension)?
 


So Ninkovich doesn't have to count until after this next game. Especially coming off injury, it wouldn't surprise me if they just wait until then.

(Oct 10 is next Monday)

 
Thats confusing.

IIRC they have until CoB on Thursday to make 2 roster moves (so TB12 and Nink) can rejoin the team

If I am comprehending correctly what Howe is saying, the Pats don't need to make a roster move until 10/10 (providing they apply for an extension)?

Usually an exemptions means that the player doesn't play.
 
Usually an exemptions means that the player doesn't play.

So the roster is essentially expanded to "54" provided the player coming off a suspension doesn't play?
 
It is strange that this is so unclear to everybody.

Does this mean 55 guys (+ PS) can practice all week before decisions?
Will it be the same after week 6 (hopefully) with Lewis?

Time and patience are virtues .. waiting can have some downsides though:




EDIT:
And after all the talk about difficult quality cuts on DL suddenly even a trade might be an option ..


This DL carousel certainly didn't turn well for Pats this week.
Lets hope its nothing serious or lingering with VV (who was supposed to be #4 “fatty“ anyway)

Rookie Vincent Valentine left Sunday’s 16-0 shutout loss to the Bills about halfway through the game and didn’t return. When I approached him in the locker room afterwards, he politely declined comment, saying he had to receive treatment. - Mike Reiss
 
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.. as I was just going to add the snap list from yesterday .. showing Derby got 7 snaps on ST for the first time .. while Harbor's diminished .. as additional indication of harbors possible release .. it already happened

In case anyone still interested in the latest snap count to think about next roster moves - here it is:

 
Yes cutting Hughes looks like it could be a big backfire lets hope not.
Bring back Knighton?
 
I'm hoping they bring back A. Johnson to the active roster. He seemed solid and has a lot of potential.
 



since Ninko is ready to go .. and Pats can very much use his help on both DE and LB .. they need only for this week
but does this mean they can practice with the team without cuts ..
and was this confirmation the reason for secrecy .. or they just wanted to show the finger quietly ..

EDIT:

Thanks Miguel


And we are still waiting for the other news ..
 
1) BB's anatomy of collapse + Brady's coming back to the house - loud

2) Injuries
- Bolden and Valentine out of the game
- Butler (looked like knee), Blount (looked like hip), Bennett (says he's good) banged up - not a good day for B's
- Garoppolo 1-2 more weeks, Brissett possibly to have a procedure (per Rapoport)
- Cooper, Rowe - ?
- Hightower & Gronk (also McClellin, Cannon) clearly not close to 100%
- PUP - Lewis (good signs), Vollmer (bad signs last time checked), Tre Jackson (no signs)

3) Roster moves
- With the injury situation above its not gonna be an easy job for FO.
- Waddle, Foster, Roberts were healthy scratches - but they are healthy!

4) Recurring Q
- Cyrus is getting less secure at return by each game
- Gost's misses spilling over from preseason
- Coleman adequacy (Cyrus substituted him vs HOU; both are struggling)
- White pretty absent - a lot of load on Blount
- Harbor & Derby nonexistent/not used on offense

Let's hope most of the pieces fall together by the time we face tough part of the schedule: CIN, @PIT, @BUF

Like an apple a day keeps the doctor away, a Brady on game day keeps the losses away.
 
When did Hughes become anything at all for the Patriots?


Since they released relatively productive A Johnson to sign him.
Since the DT market is getting thinner (no pun intended).
Since Valentine went out of Bills game with injury.
Since Hughes had DT/DE versatility and considerable experience, good against run.

If Valentine is OK (a big IF at the moment) then they probably just bring Johnson back from PS.
(the ? here remains the role of Scruggs who is DE turned TE + ST; release of Harbor could suggest TE+ST)

If Valentine is to miss few weeks then they can bring Hamilton from PS - but he didn't impress at all .. and it will be a lot of workload for Brown and Branch again which is not good at all.

If its more serious .. they can bring back Knighton or Kuhn of course .. or trade (pretty costly for the position all thought was abundantly covered in the preseason)
_

The only two DTs they had for workouts this season are Brandin Bryant and Trevon Coley

Brandin Bryant - UDFA from SEA:
who has had a strong training camp as an interior pass-rusher.
His pro day bench-press effort of 38 reps of 225 pounds was five more than any defensive linemen invited to the NFL Scouting Combine. And his 4.81 time in the 40 was in the range of 2015 second-round pick Frank Clark (4.79).


Trevon Coley was Baltimore cut to 75 and wasn't re-signed to their PS.
_

So a guy like Hughes would be pretty handy right now and I guess Pats were not happy to hear he signed elswhere.
 
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