Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[Kontradiction]

Oh right.. that Barkley guy who never won a championship and drove himself right out of the city of Philadelphia, throwing everyone under the bus except himself.

The word "nigger" no matter how you use it or in what atmosphere you use it, is a derogatory term. There is absolutely nothing positive about the use of that word.

Quite a few people disagree with you. The word has actually lost a lot of it's power as well, due to people no longer taking it as seriously as you seem to take it. That doesn't excuse it being used in a derogatory manner, mind you. But that word is no longer exclusively used that way.

 

[Tunescribe]

Quite a few people disagree with you. The word has actually lost a lot of it's power as well, due to people no longer taking it as seriously as you seem to take it. That doesn't excuse it being used in a detogatory manner, mind you. But that word is no longer exclusively used that way.

Few people realize that it drew from "niger," the Latin word for black, and originally wasn't intended or used as a pejorative. Somehow along the way it got a really negative connotation.

 

[PP2]

Quite a few people disagree with you. The word has actually lost a lot of it's power as well, due to people no longer taking it as seriously as you seem to take it. That doesn't excuse it being used in a derogatory manner, mind you. But that word is no longer exclusively used that way.

There is absolutely nothing good about a word that classifies you by the color of your skin.

 

[Kontradiction]

There is absolutely nothing good about a word that classifies you by the color of your skin.

So, by that logic, we should stop calling white people "white". What do we call them then?

 

[Tunescribe]

So, by that logic, we should stop calling white people "white". What do we call them then?

Flesh-colored.

 

[Kontradiction]

Flesh-colored.

I was thinking about maybe "blanks", but I like your suggestion better.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There is absolutely nothing good about a word that classifies you by the color of your skin.

But hair color is OK?

Beaten like a red-headed step child

Some animals are more equal than others

 

[Kontradiction]

But hair color is OK?

Beten like a red-headed step child

Some animals are more equal than others

PP2 is an otherwise excellent poster, but I don't think he thought that post through. He just walked into the message board equivalent of a haymaker.

 

[PP2]

So, by that logic, we should stop calling white people "white". What do we call them then?

I understand where you're coming from, so let me rephrase since there might be a few instances in life where we would need to refer to people by color or race; surely there is a better word than "nigger?"

The word "white" used to refer to caucasian people is far less derogatory than the word "nigger" being used to refer to black people, don't you think?

 

[shmessy]

You're all still whiffing on the actual subject.

Incognito did not call Martin a "n*****" on that voicemail.

He used a different full term which is used by BOTH whites and blacks (hence the black players on the Dolphins not reportedly having a problem with the voicemail) to ostracize some people as 'half breeds'.......just after stating that he was 'still just a rookie'.

I don't think the racial aspect of the story is central anyhow. The issue revovles around whether the player was being ostracized in his work environment. If both white players and black players in that lockerroom were calling him a "half-n****" and claiming he was still just a "rookie" in his second year, it doesn't seem as if that work environment was welcoming to this player.

Whether or not that is grounds for anything else is for the Dolphins, the NFL and NFLPA to decide.

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand where you're coming from, so let me rephrase since there might be a few instances in life where we would need to refer to people by color or race; surely there is a better word than "nigger?"

You're moving the goal posts.

The word "white" used to refer to caucasian people is far less derogatory than the word "nigger" being used to refer to black people, don't you think?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. It depends on the context and the connotation it's being used in. Sometimes, depending on the context, the words "white" and "black" can have a negative connotation. Same thing with the N-word. Sometimes it can have a positive connotation nowadays. This isn't the 60's anymore where that word only has one single connotation.

 

[PP2]

You're moving the goal posts.

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. It depends on the context and the connotation it's being used in. Sometimes, depending on the context, the words "white" and "black" can have a negative connotation. Same thing with the N-word. Sometimes it can have a positive connotation nowadays. This isn't the 60's anymore where that word only has one single connotation.

Don't think I am moving the goalpost when I readily admit going off on an useless tangent (and as you said, I didn't think that post through).

Perhaps I am wrong in the bigger picture; I just don't see any value in using the word "n****." It may not be as negative as it used to be but I just don't see anything positive about its usage.

 

[Fencer]

The real issues here evidently start that Martin was under pressure for being different, and he snapped. Both the "Big Weirdo" nickname and the "half-nigger" phrase are evidence that he was identified as being different, and not in a good way.

The whole bullying/just-kidding-around narrative fits into that way of framing things. So does the fact that he finally snapped at a minor prank communicating rejection. So does the story about him paying for a bonding-exercise/raucous-fun trip he didn't go on.

Incognito and the Dolphins are or aren't in trouble to the extent that the pressure placed on Martin was excessive.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Don't think I am moving the goalpost when I readily admit going off on an useless tangent (and as you said, I didn't think that post through).

Perhaps I am wrong in the bigger picture; I just don't see any value in using the word "nigger." It may not be as negative as it used to be but I just don't see anything positive about its usage.

I for one will NOT be using the word

 

[Brady'sArmy]

What you did was point out 3 separate instances that occurred outside of boot camp. You seem to have an issue with telling the difference between the venues.

It's clear to me because you can't tell the difference between boot camp and an actual active military setting that you really can't be expected to bring an educated opinion to the argument.

you are changing goal posts, in no where was the discussion limited to hazing in boot camp only. we were discussing hazing in military.

 

[Ivan]

I for one will NOT be using the word

Yep, the league has a big problem on their hands because the Riley Cooper incident essentially set a bar that a vast majority of NFL players won't be able to clear. And trying to evaluate what really happened in the dolphins lockerroom from the outside is next to impossible. I won't defend Incognito because he's a dirtball but I would guess that his behavior was widely accepted in the context of the dolphins lockerroom, otherwise we would have heard about it long long ago. In the end I believe that it was actually Micheal Irvin who had it right when during the Riley Cooper incident he said that he was having real trouble judging Cooper because he and his friends and peers were singing and using the n word over and over at a youth basketball tourney they attended just before the Cooper incident blew up. He was basically saying that the use of it in their circles was widely accepted and that to pass judgement on it he would have to apply the standards equally, which has never been the case. Bottom line, this story is rife with hypocrisy and so loaded with context as to make it almost impossible to decipher from the outside, and i am really not sure that there are any answers for it as I just don't see culture being legislated on the whole, although they will try to legislate it within the context of lockerroms of they can.


I have never had a high opinion of Incognito and never will however i have to admit that I am also having a real problem with Martin in this case because he should have called bullsh.t long ago and called out Incognito, if that didn't work then take it to the coaches and front office and make it clear that he wasn't going to take it. Only then should he have taken it outside of the organization, and if that was his first step instead of the last one in a process then he certainly bears a good deal of responsibility for how this has played out. He's a grown man, not a child being bullied on a playground and as a man he should have taken a stand and made his case. No-one should have to take that kind of abuse, but grown-ups have a responsibility to stand up for themselves, at least imo.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wilbon, an African-American said, "People can be upset with me if they want, I, like a whole lot of people, use the N-word all day, every day, my whole life."

Kornheiser suggested that NBA Comissioner David Stern, and his counterparts at the NFL and MLB, would have to prohibit players from using the word in public. Wilbon bristled and said, "I have a problem with… white people framing the discussion for the use of the N-word." He also likened the commissioners to plantation owners dictating whether African-Americans could use a word that had been thrust upon them.

ESPN Host: 'I Use N-Word All Day Every Day'

 

[Deus Irae]

the Dolphins' Tyson Clabo said he was told that Dolphins players likely will be questioned about the case next week in Miami. That means Wells will be visiting team headquarters. Dolphins players haven't been told when their exact meetings with Wells will be, or what time will be blocked off to deal with this mess, but it will be a week-long distraction, assuredly.

6 p.m. update: Martin speaks; Investigation heads south; Ex-Canes assess D'Onofrio | Sports Buzz

 

[Deus Irae]

The NFL Players Association intends to attend all meetings between Dolphins players and independent investigator Ted Wells. But the NFLPA didn’t attend Friday’s meeting between Wells and the man at the heart of the case, Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin...

...Cornwell says that the choice to exclude the NFLPA was made by his client.

Martin decided to exclude NFLPA from meeting with Wells | ProFootballTalk

 

[Zeus]

I for one will NOT be using the word

The wisest course of action.

What is communicated is not what is said, but what is heard. Once you've said something, people can and will interpret it any way they chose.

So anyone using the term runs the risk of offending others even if that is not their intention. Why bother taking that risk? Whatever Incognito's intentions were, life for him would be a good bit simpler right now if he had not said what he said. That's life.