Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[Fencer]

To take all of that and put it on the level of a woman who is subjected to being beaten and stays in that situaion because she feels she has no viable choice, or worse yet to an abused child, is just going to far.

I'll be happy to stipulate emotional abuse of an adult as the analogy.

That's what the "bullying" accusation boils down to, it would seem.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is dragging like a *****!

It's infuriating. Too many mediots trying to interpret texts and voice mails and god knows what else.

This text that was exposed yesterday is the most annoying of all. All the mediots saying 'interesting'...it isn't 'interesting' at all. I was a trained counsellor and mentor through my final years of school and it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that people who are bullied often try and appease the bully and appear friendly to him.

Two reasons: 1) Through fear and; 2) in hope that doing so might actually reach out to him and make him much more friendlier towards you.

It isn't rocket science and the media isn't helping this at all. This needs to be put to bed, and quickly. I think it's hilarious how this is reflecting on the Dolphins as an organisation but dragging this out like this isn't helping anybody.

"Often" piled on to "Sometimes", "Maybe", "Possibly", "Perhaps" and "Seems" is an incredibly weak case for anyone to make, yet that's all that either side of the argument has right now.

 

[Fencer]

By the way -- even though I'm on Martin's side, the transcript of Incognito's interview didn't bother me. Incognito didn't seem to be saying "That traitorous little wimp is making things up." Rather, he seemed to be saying "I meant well; please don't punish me."

 

[shmessy]

By the way -- even though I'm on Martin's side, the transcript of Incognito's interview didn't bother me. Incognito didn't seem to be saying "That traitorous little wimp is making things up." Rather, he seemed to be saying "I meant well; please don't punish me."

He certainly came off like a fine, upstanding young man in that unedited, non-scripted and hard hitting interview in a hotel suite with the journalist/MMA business owner with whom he has had a personal friendship and business dealings and for whom he flew across the country to do this interview.

 

[Ring 6]

He certainly came off like a fine, upstanding young man in that unedited, non-scripted and hard hitting interview in a hotel suite with the journalist/MMA business owner with whom he has had a personal friendship and business dealings and for whom he flew across the country to do this interview.

Why bother posting about it?

when it comes to Richie Incognito do I intend on keeping an open mind.

 

[shmessy]

Why bother posting about it?

I am honest about where I am coming from on these postings. There is nothing wrong with a poster posting from a point of view.

Evidently, you are confused. I have news for you, EVERYONE posting here has a position on whatever they are posting. This is patsfans.com, not swissforeignpolicy.com. Your sanctimony and purity is entertaining.

And, btw, the second "quote" from me you have in that previous post. If you want to be HONEST, you wouldn't have cut it to fit your point of view:

It was not; "when it comes to Richie Incognito do I intend on keeping an open mind."

but:

"Well thank you for the kind words, Andrew but at no point, when it comes to Richie Incognito do I intend on keeping an open mind."

 

[groganbootleg]

He certainly came off like a fine, upstanding young man in that unedited, non-scripted and hard hitting interview in a hotel suite with the journalist/MMA business owner with whom he has had a personal friendship and business dealings and for whom he flew across the country to do this interview.

if anything Glazer did his reputation a disservice with this interview. His personal relationship with RI should have disqualified him from doing this interview. Glazer can certain pitch softballs with the best of them. Whatever that interview was, it was not journalism.

 

[Ring 6]

I am honest about where I am coming from on these postings. There is nothing wrong with a poster posting from a point of view.

Evidently, you are confused. I have news for you, EVERYONE posting here has a position on whatever they are posting. This is patsfans.com, not swissforeignpolicy.com. Your sanctimony and purity is entertaining.

Too bad, Andy.

Of course everyone has a point of view, that is not the issue.
The issue is that you admittedly do not have an open mind about this issue, and do not care to know the facts.

Having a position or even a bias is natural, normal and fine. Being consumed by the bias to admittedly not care about the facts makes your contribution to the discussion meaningless.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't think it's common knowledge people become friends with people who bully them. I'd say its what Martin's lawyer said because he knows his case for bullying doesn't add up. I've never heard such a thing. I've never seen a someone hang out after work or school with someone they bully or text them 1100 times. I'm not buying that for a minute.

You're just plain wrong.

It is really very well established across multiple populations that an often-repeated pattern among victims is to try to appease and identify with their tormentors; this applies to a wide range of situations that fall along a spectrum all the way from extreme cases of torture or hostage-taking (the "Stockholm Syndrome") to abused spouses to, as in this case, the victims of bullying.

That's not a subject of reasonable or informed disagreement.

While I still want to wait and get all the facts, my first reaction to the Incognito interview was that Martin's (alleged) text would be a classic case example of this behavior pattern.

 

[shmessy]

Of course everyone has a point of view, that is not the issue.
The issue is that you admittedly do not have an open mind about this issue, and do not care to know the facts.

Having a position or even a bias is natural, normal and fine. Being consumed by the bias to admittedly not care about the facts makes your contribution to the discussion meaningless.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

Where did I ever write that I "admittedly" "do not care to know the facts."? Who the hell are you to put those words in my mouth? You are fabricating there If you are posting as an honest person and not being fraudulent, back that up.

With all your pious sanctimony, you then come out with that???

Opinions and viewpoints are ok on this site, putting words in other posters' mouths, isn't.

 

[Ring 6]

Where did I ever write that "and do not care to know the facts."?????

You made a statement there. If you are posting as an honest person and not being fraudulent, back that up.

Otherwise, you just made a completely fraudulent statement.

Already reposted your own words. You admittedly have no intention of having an open mind.
You said it, not me.

 

[Ring 6]

Opinions and viewpoints are ok on this site, putting words in other posters' mouths, isn't.

You edited your post after I repsonded.

I did not put words in your mouth, you said yourself you have no intention of being open minded. That means you do not care about the facts, pretty much by definition.

 

[shmessy]

You edited your post after I repsonded.

I did not put words in your mouth, you said yourself you have no intention of being open minded. That means you do not care about the facts, pretty much by definition.

That's crap. "Pretty much by definition"??????

You wrote that I ("admittedly") "do not care about the facts." What I wrote had nothing to do with disregarding facts.

Facts are facts. Opinions are opinions.

If you have any more to say about that take it somewhere else, stop putting words in other posters' mouths. This thread will not be hijacked by you to become another "Ivan and Andy Gumball Rally". You do that all the time and posters are sick of it.

 

[Ring 6]

That's crap. "Pretty much by definition"??????

You wrote that I ("admittedly") "do not care about the facts." What I wrote had nothing to do with disregarding facts.

Facts are facts. Opinions are opinions.

If you have any more to say about that take it somewhere else, stop putting words in other posters' mouths. This thread will not be hijacked by you to become another "Ivan and Andy Gumball Rally". You do that all the time and posters are sick of it.

You started it pal. I entered into this saying I am surprised people are reaching a conclusion without all the facts.
You went out of your way to jump on that, and would not let it go.
You have made numerous comments attmepting to insult me personally.
Now your feelings are hurt because I recognize that you said you have no interest in being open minded.
You have had no interest in the facts from the start, and now are trying to turn it on me that you have acted that way. No sale.

It is very simple, if you do not want this to become a back and forth, stop responding. I am not sure but I really don't think it is your place to say I cannot post my opinions, is it?

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

You're just plain wrong.

It is really very well established across multiple populations that an often-repeated pattern among victims is to try to appease and identify with their tormentors; this applies to a wide range of situations that fall along a spectrum all the way from extreme cases of torture or hostage-taking (the "Stockholm Syndrome") to abused spouses to, as in this case, the victims of bullying.

That's not a subject of reasonable or informed disagreement.

While I still want to wait and get all the facts, my first reaction to the Incognito interview was that Martin's (alleged) text would be a classic case example of this behavior pattern.

Okay, and I say you're wrong, but instead of having a conversation like 5 year olds how about you post some study or example of victims of bullying going out and texting and joking with their bullies.

Can you tell me why Martin texting about killing is a "classic example of pattern behavior" but Incognito texting identical messages is not an example of a reaction to bullying by Martin other than you've already decided one is the villain and one the victim. And if going out and being friends with someone is evidence of bullying than what is not being friends. Also evidence of bullying? So no matter what Martin does it shows he's been bullied?

I don't buy that circular logic.

 

[Ring 6]

Okay, and I say you're wrong, but instead of having a conversation like 5 year olds how about you post some study or example of victims of bullying going out and texting and joking with their bullies.

Can you tell me why Martin texting about killing is a "classic example of pattern behavior" but Incognito texting identical messages is not an example of a reaction to bullying by Martin other than you've already decided one is the villain and one the victim. And if going out and being friends with someone is evidence of bullying than what is not being friends. Also evidence of bullying? So no matter what Martin does it shows he's been bullied?

I don't buy that circular logic.

I think that it could well be correct that bullied people attempt to befriend the bully. It seems logical.
But as you said, using friendship to prove bullying is faulty logic.

I still think its hard to address the bullying angle without any word from Martin.
At this point we do not know how he views Incognito, or most importantly what the reasons were that he left.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I think that it could well be correct that bullied people attempt to befriend the bully. It seems logical.
But as you said, using friendship to prove bullying is faulty logic.

I still think its hard to address the bullying angle without any word from Martin.
At this point we do not know how he views Incognito, or most importantly what the reasons were that he left.

Yeah, maybe. Appeasement, politeness I've seen. But going out, exchanging over a thousand texts, joking- I've never seen or heard of anything like that. This so called classic reaction to bullying appears to be completely indistinguishable from the classic example of two best friends.

I'm certainly going to have to see some similar example because its completely out of the ordinary from everything I've seen and experienced in my life.

 

[Fencer]

A lot of people are drawing a false dichotomy between bullying victim and pal. One can be both at once.

Bullying victim and family member is the more common or well-known both-at-once scenario, of course; that's why I raised the analogy a few posts up.

 

[Ring 6]

A lot of people are drawing a false dichotomy between bullying victim and pal. One can be both at once.

Bullying victim and family member is the more common or well-known both-at-once scenario, of course; that's why I raised the analogy a few posts up.

I think the sticking point is saying that the close relationship is evidence of bullying. Not that you said that, but that was the discussion.

 

[Zeus]

Incognito's alleged pattern of belittling and then defending Martin is the hallmark of an abusive relationship, as is Martin's (again) alleged attempts to appease his (and once again)alleged tormentor.

It's a well documented pattern of behavior. Whether it is applicable in this instance cannot be definitively determined without more information.

(Fear not. Inspector Goodell and his kangaroo court are on the case.)