Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[Ring 6]

At least I'm honest about it, Andy.

You are priceless. My point of view ALL ALONG has been we need to keep an open mind and not rush to judgment.
You admittedly are not open minded, yet argue as if you are.

You willingly suspend your belief about this nor being a softball manipulated interview with Incognito flying across the country to the opposite coast to give his one interview to a guy he's has a business relationship in the past which when reported by Sports Illustrated necessitated a statement from Fox.

What does that even mean?
You are criticizing me for not passing judgment on the interview without watching it.
You are acting as if my position of wanting to see the interview before deciding what happened is biased, incomprehensible and out of touch with the reality you think exists where you hear and interview will happen and decide to judge its content, reliability and the integrity of the participants without bothering to see it.

Again, please clarify your position.
Are you saying the Glazer lacks integrity, honesty, and character because he knows the subject of the interview? Because that is what your posts are saying.
Are you calling for Glazer to be suspended?

 

[Ring 6]

At least I'm honest about it, Andy. You willingly suspend your belief about this nor being a softball manipulated interview with Incognito flying across the country to the opposite coast to give his one interview to a guy he's has a business relationship in the past which when reported by Sports Illustrated necessitated a statement from Fox.

But you were right, you are not open minded on this subject. For that reason alone you should refrain from arguing the topic with objective people and looking silly.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I find it highly amusing that many of the same people who happily deride Glazer as one of the "mediots", or who ***** about what a know-nothing idiot he is when he writes something not-sufficiently-complimentary of the Patriots are now saying how despite the incredible conflict of interest between Glazer and Icognito we should expect objective integrity from Glazer.

In the interview Glazer noted his "conflict of interest".

When exactly did I "deride" Glazer?

I judge the incident on it's content of character not by the patsfans.com clowncar's need to be offended.

Also, your amazing, unbelievable conflict with intelligence post is not the least bit amusing.

 

[fnordcircle]

in all seriousness, with all internet banter aside, what is the significance of the NCIS reference? I know it's a TV show but I've never watched it.

It's an old people show. I don't even remember why I was calling the other guy old I just wrote something that made me giggle which is when I know I've done a really great job.

 

[shmessy]

You are priceless. My point of view ALL ALONG has been we need to keep an open mind and not rush to judgment.
You admittedly are not open minded, yet argue as if you are.

You are hilarious! I argue as if I am "open minded" on this subject???? Well thank you for the kind words, Andrew but at no point, when it comes to Richie Incognito do I intend on keeping an open mind. Given the past decade long record he has, I am extremely biased against him and "idrd1944".

 

[Fencer]

I think racism is a red herring here.

The real question is whether Martin was ostracized because a number of his teammates felt he was different and didn't fit in.

By the way, those who say Martin's action were motivated by his "failures" on the field are making an assumption in the absence of the complete set of facts. Only Jonathan Martin knows for sure why he did what he did.

Right. Although since the main question seems to be whether his teammates went too far in bullying Martin, every unpleasant act they directed at him is part of the picture.

And by the way, I think it's safe to say that we all agree SOME actions that would be unacceptable bullying elsewhere are OK in football locker rooms, and we also all agree that there are SOME extremes of bullying that would be excessive. Where we differ is mainly in where we draw those lines, and secondarily in our guesses as to how far things actually went.

 

[reflexblue]

Another way to look at this is the possibility that conducting business at strip clubs helped the linemen develop greater mental focus amidst noise and distraction. So Incongnito's absence might be a bonus to us in that regard.

Or to simulate crowd noise at jest stadium.

 

[Ring 6]

You are hilarious! I argue as if I am "open minded" on this subject???? Well thank you for the kind words, Andrew but at no point, when it comes to Richie Incognito do I intend on keeping an open mind. Given the past decade long record he has, I am extremely biased against him and "idrd1944".

OK. Now I understand that your posts are not based upon an honest assessment of the facts, but a grudge.
Incognito does appear to be a bad guy.
I thought this discussion was about the facts of this set of incidents, but now that I realize it was a bash Incognito regardless of the facts mission by you it makes more sense.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

That's not the argument I was referrring to, as you must surely know. You've now accused me of being down with racism and down with molestation, with no evidence for either. You should be banned from this thread for that.

I was wondering that myself. Its one thing to disagree, and even go a little overboard, but upstater1 has gone off the deep end. If I was a Mod, he'd be suspended until he cools off. Perhaps he's been molested by a large white guy, and this whole thing is kinda personal for him

 

[UK_Pat37]

This is dragging like a *****!

It's infuriating. Too many mediots trying to interpret texts and voice mails and god knows what else.

This text that was exposed yesterday is the most annoying of all. All the mediots saying 'interesting'...it isn't 'interesting' at all. I was a trained counsellor and mentor through my final years of school and it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that people who are bullied often try and appease the bully and appear friendly to him.

Two reasons: 1) Through fear and; 2) in hope that doing so might actually reach out to him and make him much more friendlier towards you.

It isn't rocket science and the media isn't helping this at all. This needs to be put to bed, and quickly. I think it's hilarious how this is reflecting on the Dolphins as an organisation but dragging this out like this isn't helping anybody.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

This is dragging like a *****!

It's infuriating. Too many mediots trying to interpret texts and voice mails and god knows what else.

This text that was exposed yesterday is the most annoying of all. All the mediots saying 'interesting'...it isn't 'interesting' at all. I was a trained counsellor and mentor through my final years of school and it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that people who are bullied often try and appease the bully and appear friendly to him.

Two reasons: 1) Through fear and; 2) in hope that doing so might actually reach out to him and make him much more friendlier towards you.

It isn't rocket science and the media isn't helping this at all. This needs to be put to bed, and quickly. I think it's hilarious how this is reflecting on the Dolphins as an organisation but dragging this out like this isn't helping anybody.

I don't think it's common knowledge people become friends with people who bully them. I'd say its what Martin's lawyer said because he knows his case for bullying doesn't add up. I've never heard such a thing. I've never seen a someone hang out after work or school with someone they bully or text them 1100 times. I'm not buying that for a minute.

 

[Fencer]

I don't think it's common knowledge people become friends with people who bully them. I'd say its what Martin's lawyer said because he knows his case for bullying doesn't add up. I've never heard such a thing. I've never seen a someone hang out after work or school with someone they bully or text them 1100 times. I'm not buying that for a minute.

It happens in most abusive marriages, for starters, as well as many abusive parent/child relationships.

 

[Ring 6]

It happens in most abusive marriages, for starters, as well as many abusive parent/child relationships.

I don't think it's fair to battered women or abused children to compare their plight to Jon martins.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

It happens in most abusive marriages, for starters, as well as many abusive parent/child relationships.

I don't think so, children don't have a choice obviously, I'd hardly call that hanging out with their parents when they can't leave. It's an insulting comparison when women may have to appease their abuser who lives in their house just to sleep at night, and their abuser is typically someone who can physically hurt them.

Really, what evidence to you have that Martin wasn't the bully, he sent the same messages, said the same words and was friendly with Incognito. If we're going to use the absurd standard that being friends is evidence of abuse then there really isn't any evidence at all.

 

[Fencer]

I don't think it's fair to battered women or abused children to compare their plight to Jon martins.

Martin's entire livelihood and plans for the first 10-20 years of his adult life depended on his role with the Dolphins. That's fairly similar to the position of many wives.

No, it's not the SAME thing -- but it's close enough to undermine the point "Oh, he'd never have gone along with it if it were really all that bad".

 

[Fencer]

It's an insulting comparison when women may have to appease their abuser who lives in their house just to sleep at night,

They can always just leave.

Too trite, you say? After all, they've been socialized all their lives to believe one doesn't just leave? That they would be a failure if they just left? And by the way, what kind of plans do they have for their life if they do just leave?

Well, all that can apply to a football player as well.

And if you say I don't have proof of any of this? Well, you're the one who was suggesting it never could have happened, so the burden of proof is actually on you.

 

[Ring 6]

Martin's entire livelihood and plans for the first 10-20 years of his adult life depended on his role with the Dolphins. That's fairly similar to the position of many wives.

No, it's not the SAME thing -- but it's close enough to undermine the point "Oh, he'd never have gone along with it if it were really all that bad".

At this point we still do not exactly what treatment Martin was given and what he objected to.
We know that a racial slur was left on a voicemail. We know he had a prank played on him at lunch that was typical for the team. We know he, along with other rookies were involved in the rookie picks up the bill deal, and that he contributed to a group trip and chose not to go.
We know he lost his job due to his play on the field, and left.
We suspect that there was some kind of treatment that caused it, but those details have not been made public. For every example of him being treated unusually, there is an example of him befriending the players. Somehow this story has turned into people assuming he was walking around afraid of his shadow and just went along because of it. We do not know that, and the only real evidence of that is his leaving which could be for other reasons.

To take all of that and put it on the level of a woman who is subjected to being beaten and stays in that situaion because she feels she has no viable choice, or worse yet to an abused child, is just going to far.

 

[Kdo5]

Not entirely sure what's going on. Incognito's voice mail message sounded pretty damning but the situation might not be so clear if Incognito's story potentially holds water.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I am starting to wonder if Martin just doesn't like pressure, isn't a football lifer, wanted out of the game, and the treatment he received, while deplorable, was a convenient excuse to explain his decision to walk away.

I know all of the facts are not in, and my first inclination was to be sympathetic to him, but his role as the victim is starting to seem at least a little bit contrived.

This doesn't excuse Incognito though, who is an embarassment to the game.

 

[Ring 6]

I am starting to wonder if Martin just doesn't like pressure, isn't a football lifer, wanted out of the game, and the treatment he received, while deplorable, was a convenient excuse to explain his decision to walk away.

I know all of the facts are not in, and my first inclination was to be sympathetic to him, but his role as the victim is starting to seem at least a little bit contrived.

This doesn't excuse Incognito though, who is an embarassment to the game.

I think we don't have enough facts to know either way. The starting point of understanding is to know what Martin objected to and what his reason for quitting was.
I know that there has been volumes written about other people saying how they think Martin took the racial slur, but its all speculation. If you assume he took it like my coworker would if I just walked up and called him the N word, or if you assume, like the other black OL have said, it was meaningless because of the relationship, you get 2 very different outlooks.

My point is that you can't just look at it from one side and think you understand. I have mostly posted in disagreement with the crowd ready to hang Incognito because they have been the most vociferoius in their conclusion jumping, but I would also caution anyone saying Martin is scapegoating to hold back also because there just are not sufficient facts.