Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[groganbootleg]

Of course real evidence would convince me. THAT is not real evidence.
If you wish to not be skeptical of research done by "The Walrus" feel free. I choose to not jump to conclusions based upon questionable sources.

By the way in what was is 'skeptical' and 'not certain' digging your heels in?

Aside from Richie's father coming out and saying, "Yeah, that was me." what would you need to convince you? I think the evidence (regardless of who came up with it) was very convincing. At some point you have to admit that the coincidences between that name and the content of his postings would lead you to believe that it is his father.

 

[Avenger]

Aside from Richie's father coming out and saying, "Yeah, that was me." what would you need to convince you? I think the evidence (regardless of who came up with it) was very convincing. At some point you have to admit that the coincidences between that name and the content of his postings would lead you to believe that it is his father.

Registered with the same birthday as his father too

 

[Ring 6]

Aside from Richie's father coming out and saying, "Yeah, that was me." what would you need to convince you? I think the evidence (regardless of who came up with it) was very convincing. At some point you have to admit that the coincidences between that name and the content of his postings would lead you to believe that it is his father.

That makes absolutely no sense to me, so maybe I misunderstood you.

Are you saying that after I read that and was skeptical about the source that even though the source deserves skepticism and everything tying it together is also dubious, that I have to take a long list of questionable proof and accept it?

I'm just not so sure why it is so important to you that I have faith in The Walrus.

 

[goheels22002]

I want more information than a voicemail with no context before I go tarring and feathering someone, while you apparently don't really care about such unimportant things as facts and guilt/innocence, and that's the difference here. While I'm sure you wanted the members of the Duke lacrosse team executed the moment the first possibility of malfeasance was raised, I generally prefer having a bit more knowledge than that prior to cracking out the pitchfork.

I wanted the Duke men's lacrosse team executed years before they were wrongfully accused of sexual misconduct; and the Duke men's basketball team, too.

 

[Tunescribe]

I want more information than a voicemail with no context before I go tarring and feathering someone, while you apparently don't really care about such unimportant things as facts and guilt/innocence, and that's the difference here. While I'm sure you wanted the members of the Duke lacrosse team executed the moment the first possibility of malfeasance was raised, I generally prefer having a bit more knowledge than that prior to cracking out the pitchfork.

I agree with this. As bad as Incognito is looking on this matter, I think more background and context is needed on that voicemail specifically and other allegations against him in general. Plenty of high-profile Dolphins already have come out not necessarily defending him, but pleading ignorance to his being an "abuser/bully." Maybe he is. And/or maybe Martin has issues of his own that haven't yet come to light.

 

[upstater1]

That makes absolutely no sense to me, so maybe I misunderstood you.

Are you saying that after I read that and was skeptical about the source that even though the source deserves skepticism and everything tying it together is also dubious, that I have to take a long list of questionable proof and accept it?

I'm just not so sure why it is so important to you that I have faith in The Walrus.

Why is it dubious? What's dubious about tracking down the same IP address? Why is that dubious?

 

[upstater1]

I agree with this. As bad as Incognito is looking on this matter, I think more background and context is needed on that voicemail specifically and other allegations against him in general. Plenty of high-profile Dolphins already have come out not necessarily defending him, but pleading ignorance to his being an "abuser/bully." Maybe he is. And/or maybe Martin has issues of his own that haven't yet come to light.

Incognito has been a bully repeatedly in the past. Repeatedly.

 

[Avenger]

This does bring up the question though, any posters on here related to any Pats players?

 

[shmessy]

This does bring up the question though, any posters on here related to any Pats players?

Brian Holloway is my dad. My therapist says I'll be ok.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree with this. As bad as Incognito is looking on this matter, I think more background and context is needed on that voicemail specifically and other allegations against him in general. Plenty of high-profile Dolphins already have come out not necessarily defending him, but pleading ignorance to his being an "abuser/bully." Maybe he is. And/or maybe Martin has issues of his own that haven't yet come to light.

FWIW, Schefter said the same thing on SportsCenter today. His exact words were, "we only have one side to this right now. There's Martin's side, there's Incognito's side, and then there's the truth which is usually somewhere in the middle".

 

[Ring 6]

Why is it dubious? What's dubious about tracking down the same IP address? Why is that dubious?

Sorry, I find "The Walrus" to be a questionable source.

 

[Fixit]

"... and then there's the truth which is usually somewhere in the middle".

I hate this saying, because it's completely ridiculous. Most of the time, only one person is lying.

 

[Kontradiction]

I hate this saying, because it's completely ridiculous. Most of the time, only one person is lying.

What are you basing this stance on? There are plenty of instances in which both sides lie to either make the other side look worse, their side look better, or both. Divorces are one such example. Custody and estate battles are two more.

 

[Fixit]

What are you basing this stance on? There are plenty of instances in which both sides lie to either make the other side look worse, their side look better, or both. Divorces are one such example. Custody and estate battles are two more.

Sometimes, yes. "Usually?" No.

I work in insurance claims. All day, every day is full of he said/she said accounts of what happened. Then we see a police report, and 95% of the time, it bears out that one person was full of it and the other was being honest.

And, this is an important distinction, in bitter divorce or custody battles, they tend to try to paint the other person as being terrible. They're not usually arguing about an issue of fact. "He's a lousy parent! No she is!" is a lot different than "He abused me! No, I didn't" In the first example, it's subjective. In the second, one of them is lying.

 

[Kontradiction]

Sometimes, yes. "Usually?" No.

I work in insurance claims. All day, every day is full of he said/she said accounts of what happened. Then we see a police report, and 95% of the time, it bears out that one person was full of it and the other was being honest.

And, this is an important distinction, in bitter divorce or custody battles, they tend to try to paint the other person as being terrible. They're not usually arguing about an issue of fact. "He's a lousy parent! No she is!" is a lot different than "He abused me! No, I didn't" In the first example, it's subjective. In the second, one of them is lying.

That explains the stance then.

Insurance claims are a whole different ball of wax because it's easier to prove who is lying and who isn't. Further, if it's a car accident, there usually is only one person at fault. In situations like this, the truth is typically somewhere in the middle, as Schefter explained.

 

[Fixit]

That explains the stance then.

Insurance claims are a whole different ball of wax because it's easier to prove who is lying and who isn't. Further, if it's a car accident, there usually is only one person at fault. In situations like this, the truth is typically somewhere in the middle, as Schefter explained.

No, it's not. Up to this point, there's nothing to contradict Martin's account. Even RI, who couldn't yell loud enough and challenge enough people before yesterday, has fallen silent since the tapes.

Imagine that Martin was a woman. Do you really think that Schefter would imply that the truth is somewhere in the middle?

I mean, what are people assuming Martin to be guilty of to deserve that call he got?

For the record, this is wrong: "Further, if it's a car accident, there usually is only one person at fault." We see mixed liability a lot.

 

[Kontradiction]

No, it's not. Up to this point, there's nothing to contradict Martin's account.

Up until this point in the Duke Lacrosse case, there was nothing to contradict Crystal Mangum's statement either.

Even RI, who couldn't yell loud enough and challenge enough people before yesterday, has fallen silent since the tapes.

Which, for all you know, could just be the advice of his lawyer.

Imagine that Martin was a woman. Do thou really think that Schefter would imply that the truth is somewhere in the middle?

I'm failing to see how a hypothetical that imagines Martin as a member of a different sex is at all relevant here.

 

[Gronkandez]

I agree with this. As bad as Incognito is looking on this matter, I think more background and context is needed on that voicemail specifically and other allegations against him in general. Plenty of high-profile Dolphins already have come out not necessarily defending him, but pleading ignorance to his being an "abuser/bully." Maybe he is. And/or maybe Martin has issues of his own that haven't yet come to light.

I agree. I think there will be more NFL players who come out and imply or directly indicate that they don't have an issue with this behavior and that it's commonplace.
I'm especially interested to hear what the other offensive lineman have to say, including Pouncey who a) is black and b) who was apparently called a drug addict by RI's dad. If they all say RI is a good leader and he's always talked like this but they all understood that it was only done to toughen guys up and they never had a problem with it....

 

[Fixit]

Up until this point in the Duke Lacrosse case, there was nothing to contradict Crystal Mangum's statement either.



Which, for all you know, could just be the advice of his lawyer.



I'm failing to see how a hypothetical that imagines Martin as a member of a different sex is at all relevant here.

We need to stop bringing up the Duke case. There was never any evidence against those guys; people just jumped to conclusions based off of what she said happened. Martin actually has evidence that caused the Dolphins to pull a world-record 180.

You might be right, but I don't recall hearing anything about him getting a lawyer.

I brought up the woman thing to put the image in your mind that making the assumption/implication that Martin is lying based off of nothing but "the truth is usually somewhere in the middle" (which it's not) is irresponsible.

 

[Kontradiction]

We need to stop bringing up the Duke case. There was never any evidence against those guys; people just jumped to conclusions based off of what she said happened.

Why? The comparisons are fine. There was not any evidence against those guys at all in the case, and particularly early on. At this point, the only evidence against Incognito himself (not his hillbilly dad) is a voicemail in which, reading it alone, is impossible to tell whether or not he was simply busting Martin's balls or was really threatening him.

You might be right, but I don't recall hearing anything about him getting a lawyer.

I think it's pretty safe to say that he has one at this point, if he didn't already have one.

I brought up the woman thing to put the image in your mind that making the assumption/implication that Martin is lying based off of nothing but "the truth is usually somewhere in the middle" (which it's not) is irresponsible.

It's not irresponsible at all. I brought up a few examples where "the truth is usually somewhere in the middle". It may, or it may not be, in this case. But we don't know that yet. If the fault lies with one person in this matter, whether it's Incognito or Martin, I'm sure they'll get their fair share of criticism. But that has yet to be brought to light and from everything we're hearing, it sounds like there's going to be at least a few more layers to this story.