Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[shmessy]

You might want to take this up with the military, and let the military leaders know that all their studies and years of live testing don't actually prove what they seem to prove.

Fail.

Show me where racial taunting and monetary shakedowns of its own enlisteds are the accepted policy of the officer class of today's US Armed Forces.

In fact, show me an officer who has been publicly proven to have done that, and I'll show you an officer who has been shown the door.

 

[Kontradiction]

Unfortunately, hazing always escalates over time until it inevitably goes too far.

Where are you pulling that data from?

I've been involved in a lot of hazing on football, basketball, and baseball teams. Either having it done to me or by administering it. In cases I've been involved in or have seen first hand, unless the administer is an ass, it doesn't escalate. In the couple of times that I can remember it did, it was policed internally.

Done right? Seriously? Thats a horrible statement made by someone who has never been on the opposite side of a violent hazing incident. Its never ok for the person who is being physically abused. You don't build camaraderie with teammates by beating the crap out of one of them. Its bullying and its it separates people far more than it brings them together. People stand idly by and watch it occur because they don't want to be labeled a "*****" by their teammates. Kudos to Martin for standing up to this imbecile.

You're talking about two separate things. Hazing, when done right, is perfectly fine. It's perfectly fine for the seniors/vets to make freshman/rookies carry all of the blocking dummies and/or their helmets after practice. It's perfectly okay for rookies to take veteran members of their position out for dinner or drinks. What you're talking about is physical abuse that isn't okay and, as far as I can tell, I've never excused anything of the sort in this thread.

 

[shmessy]

Could be a damning text. Could be typical teammate bull. Without context around it, it doesn't really mean much. It's a voicemail from April, for crying out loud.

Context:

Which is why this situation is a BIGGER crisis for the Dolphins, because he reached out to the higher ups at the time:

Richie Incognito voicemails surface, substantiate Jonathan Martin claims - The Phinsider

"Martin, according to various reports yesterday, approached head coach Joe Philbin with concerns about the locker room conduct this offseason. According to NFL.com's Albert Breer, the team believed they had handled the complaint, as well as any health issues Martin may have had at that time:"

Context

 

[Onedaful]

You're talking about two separate things. Hazing, when done right, is perfectly fine. It's perfectly fine for the seniors/vets to make freshman/rookies carry all of the blocking dummies and/or their helmets after practice. It's perfectly okay for rookies to take veteran members of their position out for dinner or drinks. What you're talking about is physical abuse that isn't okay and, as far as I can tell, I've never excused anything of the sort in this thread.

Here is an example of hazing done right in my opinion. Of course I might be bias.

Patriots Pulse: Tom Brady Is Enjoying This Rookie Haircut Hazing Way Too Much (PHOTOS) - Boston Sports Then & Now

 

[QuantumMechanic]

FWIW, here's what Tedy said about financial hazing when he was on the Pats (from his ESPBoston chat):

Jacob (Bethlehem, Pa.)
Tedy, I was surprised to see what was going on in Miami with a starting OL to leave the team allegedly due to hazing. Obviously we're used to seeing rookie haircuts and similar things for first-year players, but how much of this really goes on? Have you seen something similar, and how would it be handled in New England?

Tedy (12:27 PM)
Here's an example of how it was handled when things got out of hand for us. When I was a rookie, I was asked to take the entire LB group to dinner. It cost me $1,700. As it got up to my 8th and 9th year, it turned into an entire team dinner and all the rookies paying for the dinner. That bill sometimes reached upwards of $30,000. Word got out that it was getting out of hand. I remember one captains meeting when Bill Belichick said 'That's enough of that. It's getting out of hand, guy.' Joe Philbin should have been all over this.

 

[Onedaful]

Also I find this to be pretty interesting. If this story turns out to be true than you know where this dude gets his behavior and attitude from.

Is Richie Incognito's Dad Blasting Jonathan Martin On Message Boards?

 

[Kontradiction]

Here is an example of hazing done right in my opinion. Of course I might be bias.

Patriots Pulse: Tom Brady Is Enjoying This Rookie Haircut Hazing Way Too Much (PHOTOS) - Boston Sports Then & Now

I really wish the Pats didn't do that. It might have escalated in a dinner with a $4,738,591 bill in which the rookie got threatened to his ass beat in the parking lot afterward.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think it's apparent that the poster in question there was Incognito's father. It's actually surprisingly easy to track an IP number over the internet. Couple that with the paper trail of old posts on top of the post's disappearing once the poster was outed, and the newer posts, and you have a clear cut case.

It's incredibly easy to run all of your traffic through a VPN and make yourself basically untrackable by IP, but people like Richie Incognito Sr. can be counted on to not know that.

 

[Fixit]

It might have escalated in a dinner with a $4,738,591 bill ...(

Why would Gilbert Brown be at a Pats dinner?

 

[Ring 6]

There's nothing to disagree on, Andy.

You kept holding on to the notion that the posts weren't from Incognito's father, because you didn't have the info. Other people did have it.

Their argument was solid, yours was not.

Just because someone loses patience with you and mocks you, that doesn't negate the fact that they're right.

If someone with a thermometer says it's 45 degrees outside, and you argue that it's 35 degrees, that person calling you names still doesn't mean they're wrong.

Holy cow.

When my point of view is that I want to see the facts, what you typed her is just wrong.
There was absolutely nothing known about the content of any text, email, voicemail or conversation at the point that I said I will wait to pass judgment.
Someone arguing that I should pass judgment without those facts is simply wrong. When they base their argument about whether there are enough facts on the severity of the issue rather than the lack of confirnation of details of course they will get frustrated when I say there are not enough facts.

The fact that someone resorts to personal attacks under those circumstances says a lot more about the personal making the attack.

 

[Fencer]

Fail.

Show me where racial taunting and monetary shakedowns of its own enlisteds are the accepted policy of the officer class of today's US Armed Forces.

In fact, show me an officer who has been publicly proven to have done that, and I'll show you an officer who has been shown the door.

Monetary shakedowns by the DIs were routine in the Vietnam era, at least at the camp a neighbor of mine trained at. (I'd guess Camp Pendleton, since we were in California and he was in the Marines.) So was above-and-beyond physical abuse.

 

[Ring 6]

By the way, there's a very real possibility that Incognito's problems won't end with just league discipline. The stuff he is (I'll say this for the benefit of others) alleged to have done is illegal.

Can you expand upon that? Which actions specifically are you calling illegal?

 

[manxman2601]

I've seen a report that Incognito will get released today. Is it fair to say that considering his effect on the locker room, it's a 100% certainty that he won't be picked up by the Pats?

 

[TyronePoole]

Re: Re: Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

Monetary shakedowns by the DIs were routine in the Vietnam era, at least at the camp a neighbor of mine trained at. (I'd guess Camp Pendleton, since we were in California and he was in the Marines.) So was above-and-beyond physical abuse.

Also fragging

 

[shmessy]

Monetary shakedowns by the DIs were routine in the Vietnam era, at least at the camp a neighbor of mine trained at. (I'd guess Camp Pendleton, since we were in California and he was in the Marines.) So was above-and-beyond physical abuse.

What was the 23rd word in my post?

In today's NFL you can't punch WR's in the nose like Jack Tatum did either.

 

[shmessy]

I've seen a report that Incognito will get released today. Is it fair to say that considering his effect on the locker room, it's a 100% certainty that he won't be picked up by the Pats?

"......Ladies and gentlemen, now starting at Left Guard for your New York Jets......"

 

[BradyFTW!]

Richie Incognito Timeline

A timeline of notable incidents involving offensive lineman Richie Incognito, both in his college and professional careers:

Oct. 2013 Suspended indefinitely by Dolphins after alleged harassment of teammate Jonathan Martin
Aug. 2013 Texans DE Antonio Smith suspended for Week 1 for swinging helmet at Incognito during game
Dec. 2011 Raiders DT Richard Seymour fined $30,000 for punching Incognito during a game
Dec. 2009 Released by Rams two days after being penalized twice for personal fouls and arguing with coach Steve Spagnuolo during game against Titans
2009 season Voted NFL's "dirtiest player" in poll of NFL players by Sporting News
Oct. 2004 Dismissed from Oregon football program after transferring to school in September
Sept. 2004 Suspended indefinitely by Nebraska coach Bill Callahan for repeated violations of team rules
June 2004 Convicted of misdemeanor assault charge stemming from incident at party in February
Spring 2003 Suspended by Nebraska coach Frank Solich (reinstated prior to season)

Bottom line: let's not act like this is coming out of left field. The Dolphins knew what they were getting when they signed him. Personally, I'm just curious to know what happened that led to Richard Seymour punching him and Antonio Smith taking a helmet swing at him.

 

[Ring 6]

There's nothing to disagree on, Andy.

You kept holding on to the notion that the posts weren't from Incognito's father, because you didn't have the info. Other people did have it.

This is not correct. I did not know whether they were or weren't and wouldn't take some guy on a message board doing an investigation as iron clad proof. That stands.

Their argument was solid, yours was not.

No there argument is only as good as the quality of the source which they have no clue about.
Again, even if it is him, I'm not wrong to doubt a questionable source.

Just because someone loses patience with you and mocks you, that doesn't negate the fact that they're right.

Yeah, it kind of does, because if their argument were supported there would be no need to, unless I acted in such a way.

If someone with a thermometer says it's 45 degrees outside, and you argue that it's 35 degrees, that person calling you names still doesn't mean they're wrong.

Which is clearly not what happened here.

Holy cow.

Back atcha

 

[Gronkandez]

I've seen a report that Incognito will get released today. Is it fair to say that considering his effect on the locker room, it's a 100% certainty that he won't be picked up by the Pats?

"He's done," a ranking club source said Monday. "There are procedures in place and everyone wants to be fair. The NFL is involved. But from a club perspective he'll never play another game here."

Read more here: Miami Dolphins In Depth

Miami Dolphins In Depth

 

[Kontradiction]

He just got released.

Mike Loyko @NEPD_Loyko
Just as I predicted early today #Dolphins cutting @68INCOGNITO no team will touch him. Jon Martin laughing last. Career over?