Manning is more skilled than Brady? Please explain.

[Koma]

Any other team in the history of the game would have kicked the field-goal. I'm still waiting for a legitimate example of another team doing something similar. I'm not talking about a lop-sided score; I'm talking about going for it on fourth down for a TD instead of settling for 4 less points when your team has 0% chance of losing the game.

I'll figure that I'm posting in the Twilight Zone if nobody is going to at least indicate that they understand what I'm talking about, whether they agree or not...at least I'll understand that I'm on the same planet. If you disagree, I'll feel right at home...on the planet Earth populated by homers.

This is futile, because you'll just claim it doesn't fit the criteria but...

9/28/2008 - Arizona Cardinals @ NY Jets

Jets lead 48-35 with 2 minutes left, facing 4th and 5 from the AZ 26 yard line. A FG makes it a 16 pt game. Jets score a TD on 4th down and add a 2 point conversion.

The NY defense forced 7 turnovers that game. They had 0% chance of losing that game at the 2 minute mark.

 

[maverick4]

I'm talking about going for it on fourth down for a TD instead of settling for 4 less points when your team has 0% chance of losing the game.

I and others have explained, repeatedly, why running on 4th down is more honorable and respectable to the opponent than scoring a FG. You keep ignoring it, then asking the same question over and over.

Also, I don't remember if we scored a TD on that play, I don't think we did. I think we converted a 4th down, which the Bills couldn't stop because they simply gave up.

 

[maverick4]

and that's not something I've seen any team do even once in my 30 years of being a spectator.

Can you see how I would think that, and can you admit it without calling me a name?

Either you haven't watched many games or you have some convenient memory lapse going on right now. In the past 30 years there have been plenty of blow out games with late scores. Joe Gibbs used to do it all the time.

 

[apple strudel]

This is a BS rationaliztion. Going for it on 4th down while on the opponents 10 yard-line while up 32 points late in the game... That's the issue. The Patriots had done things like that all season...running up the score, and that's not something I've seen any team do even once in my 30 years of being a spectator.

Can you see how I would think that, and can you admit it without calling me a name?

No, it's not a rationalization. It's a plain fact that the other team has a better chance of preventing points on the play. If you're the opposing coach would you prefer a chance to play the high percentage play or just give the other team 3 points? It's extremely simple. On one hand you've got a better chance at preventing ANY points, and on the other you've got almost no chance at preventing points.

You may like it but math doesn't just make **** up. Here it's rock solid.

 

[Wildo7]

This is a BS rationaliztion. Going for it on 4th down while on the opponents 10 yard-line while up 32 points late in the game... That's the issue. The Patriots had done things like that all season...running up the score, and that's not something I've seen any team do even once in my 30 years of being a spectator.

Can you see how I would thing that, and can you admit it without calling me a name?

Dude, you're a victim of homer hysteria and media-driven BS. It's been pointed out numerous times that the Colts actually did run up the score numerous times in this thread and you've ignored it. And you are simply lying if you say you've been watching for 30 years and never said that.

Again, do you think Belichick was acting when he acted surprised and said he thought kicking a FG in that situation was disrespectful?

What possible good does it do to kick a FG and add on 3 points? So that you can delude yourself into thinking that you saved face? The conversion rate is what it's all about, giving the Bills a chance to stop. That's why the Pats did what they did. Anything beyond that is just complete sour grapes, and I can 100% guarantee that if they had kicked a FG, ESPN would have had a bunch of "analysts" sitting around talking about how they should have just ran it out and let the Bills stop them and you'd be here claiming that it was the height of disrespect.

 

[efin98]

There has been nothing convenient about this for me. The volume of posts attacking my position alone aren't convenient for me to give enough attention to. we are approaching 50 pages now, and I'm the only one arguing against Brady as compared to Manning as far as I can see.

Can you see that?

I'd have to write an entire book.

Can you see that?

 

[Wildo7]

Make up your minds butthurt fans.

A Monday Night Football game between the Green Bay Packers and Dallas Cowboys ended in a 21-6 Cowboy victory and some complaints by Green Bay players that the home team's final field goal was an insult to them, as Dallas had the ball deep in Green Bay territory with the game well in hand as it ended, yet chose to score more points anyway.

 

[Joker]

heh...hilarity....Jim Kelly and the K Gun never ran up the score...nosiree..."well,we played no huddle every game right to the end this season because we all have adult ADD...and Thurman loses concentration if he has to use his brain for more than three seconds"-Jim Kelly- pick any year

Steve DeOssie to Fred Smerlas in an on air argument on EEI...

"yeah...well at least I didn't live my career shoveling five tons of snow a week at my house on Wide Right Lane..."

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm sure that the K-Gun Bills never once scored points in the 4th quarter of a 'blowout'. Why just take a look at how they were always refusing to do that against the Colts during that era!

Hmmmm....

1990: 31-7 win, 7 points in the 4th.
1991: 42-6 win, 7 in the 4th
1991: 35-7 win, 7 in the 4th
1992: 38-0 win, 14 in the 4th
1993: 30-10 win, 14 in the 4th (just in case 3 scores is a blowout)

Well, would you look at that? And, to think, those are just games against the Colts. Shocking.


Edit: Surely they wouldn't do it against the Patriots, right? I mean, that would make any Bills fans that claimed they were watching games for, say, 30 years, look ridiculous:

1992: 41-7 Bills, 14 in the 4th
1993: 38-14 Bills, 21 in the 4th (New England went scoreless in the 4th)


Hey, wait a minute! That's twice they 'ran up the score' just in those 4 years. This can't be possible, though.

And, of course, the Lawyer Milloy 31-0 game never happened and Buffalo didn't drop 10 on the Patriots in the 4th quarter of that game, since the game didn't happen.

 

[Joker]

I think the problem with Feldspar is a communication gap...so I found this link to a page that explains the idiosyncratic nature of life up there and gives a keen insight into the mental processes that prevail there..

The Guide to Buffalo English

 

[wpdougie2180]

While he's right that it was a pass on 4th & 1 (a quick slant to Moss for 3 yards, I have every game from that year on DVD) it was still the 3rd quarter when it happened and if the Patriots really wanted to run the score up in that game with about 4 mins. left in the game and 4th & inches (which was literally an inch) on Buffalo's 31 they could have gone for it or kicked the field goal but no what do the patriots do they punt. From the 31 the 31 they could have scored even more.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This is a BS rationaliztion. Going for it on 4th down while on the opponents 10 yard-line while up 32 points late in the game... That's the issue. The Patriots had done things like that all season...running up the score, and that's not something I've seen any team do even once in my 30 years of being a spectator.

Can you see how I would think that, and can you admit it without calling me a name?

Did you watch the 2006 AFCCG? Good, then you know exactly why the Pats spent 2007 playing until the last whistle. Belichick has said it prior to 2007 many times: it's a principle. Football is played for 60 minutes, and you never quit. It's not professional feelingsball, and we're not in the little leagues here. If a team doesn't want them to score, then it should stop them. The point that Belichick was making to the players? Never stop playing hard. If you're on the field, you're playing to win.

If you want to cry about sportsmanship and call Belichick a big meanie for it, then that's your right. I sure as hell don't have a problem with it, though. These guys are professionals; if they can't do their damn job then they deserve to get scored on.

According to Belichick, and many of the players that the Pats blew out in 2007, the real sign of disrespect would have been packing it in and not trying. Not even trying to score is disrespectful to your opponent, because it assumes that they can't do their job. Besides, many teams have run up scores in the same way that the Pats did in 2007. Including Manning's Colts and your beloved Bills.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

The Patriots deserved to lose the Super Bowl that year for doing that alone. Karma.

It wasnt Karma. Bill angered the football gods, and they spewed their anger on our team in the 4th qtr of the SB

 

[ausbacker]

It wasnt Karma. Bill angered the football gods, and they spewed their anger on our team in the 4th qtr of the SB

That was feldspar's comment nashville, not mine. I think it's a crock of **** personally, but feldspar has proven beyond reproach.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

That was feldspar's comment nashville, not mine. I think it's a crock of **** personally, but feldspar has proven beyond reproach.

No matter who said it,,,,,,we must not anger the football gods.

Angering the football gods could result in a total climate shift in the NFL. The Lions could suddenly become a dynasty. Al Davis could suddenly turn the Raiders around, and lead them to multiple SBs.......OR, god forbid, The Jests, and Doofins meet in the afccg...

I think we should offer up a sacrifice to the football gods. I suggest 'feldspar'.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No matter who said it,,,,,,we must not anger the football gods.

Angering the football gods could result in a total climate shift in the NFL. The Lions could suddenly become a dynasty. Al Davis could suddenly turn the Raiders around, and lead them to multiple SBs.......OR, god forbid, The Jests, and Doofins meet in the afccg...

I think we should offer up a sacrifice to the football gods. I suggest 'feldspar'.

and cats could bark and dogs could meow and you'd said goodbye when you arrived and hello when you left!

 

[efin98]

I'm sure that the K-Gun Bills never once scored points in the 4th quarter of a 'blowout'. Why just take a look at how they were always refusing to do that against the Colts during that era!

Hmmmm....

1990: 31-7 win, 7 points in the 4th.
1991: 42-6 win, 7 in the 4th
1991: 35-7 win, 7 in the 4th
1992: 38-0 win, 14 in the 4th
1993: 30-10 win, 14 in the 4th (just in case 3 scores is a blowout)

Well, would you look at that? And, to think, those are just games against the Colts. Shocking.


Edit: Surely they wouldn't do it against the Patriots, right? I mean, that would make any Bills fans that claimed they were watching games for, say, 30 years, look ridiculous:

1992: 41-7 Bills, 14 in the 4th
1993: 38-14 Bills, 21 in the 4th (New England went scoreless in the 4th)


Hey, wait a minute! That's twice they 'ran up the score' just in those 4 years. This can't be possible, though.

And, of course, the Lawyer Milloy 31-0 game never happened and Buffalo didn't drop 10 on the Patriots in the 4th quarter of that game, since the game didn't happen.

How dare you refute such fine logic with statistics!

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

and cats could bark and dogs could meow and you'd said goodbye when you arrived and hello when you left!

lol. whats that from?

 

[Ring 6]

Your last statement is a twisting of truth. Manning is one of the winningest QB's since he's been in the league. If you're talking about simply comparing rings, then it's fair to say 1 player out of 53 shouldn't get a disproportionate amount of credit for each championship.

If you denounce stats and overall # wins (but no rings) so much, how can you argue for Brady over Manning but simultaneously argue about how great the 06-08 Josh McDaniels offenses were? You can't without contradicting yourself over how to view stats, rings, and wins in the equation.

15-3 to 7-8 in the playoffs.
Once again, we are talking about THE BEST QB. The bar is high.
Manning has been successful in winning in the regular season, Brady has been more successful.
Manning has been unsuccessful in the post-season, Brady treendously successful.
When I say Brady wins, Manning largely doesn't I dont mean against the Raider or Chiefs I mean at the highest level, because that is what the discussion needs to be about when you are talking about who is the best.

Also, regarding this bug up your @ss over 2007, you seem to be confused.
In the other thread I ranked the 04,03 and 01 teams above the 07 team, and got a lot of argument for it.
There is a big difference between being the best offense of all-time and the best team of all-time.

 

[Ring 6]

My argument is that Manning is better because he is better. Quite a profound statement, I know. I think I mentioned stats and defense somewhere in there.

Umm, no your argument is that Manning is better because this is a Patriot board.
Your reasoning includes that Tom Brady has some type of microhonal advantage, that maybe the 4 Ints Manning threw weren't his fault, but you don't know because you either didnt see it or dont remember, that gesticualtion at the line of scrimmage equals making good decisions, that not winning is somehow better than winning if you can give credit to someone else for the winning, and so on.
At the point you are forced to deal with anything concrete and not made up you say Manning stats are better. You have cited that many, many times.
You were asked to show why Manning is better.
How does making up that Brady has someone telling him what to do in the microphone prove that?
How does talking about whehter the Patriot defense is better prove that? What if it is, how does that make Manning better? Is Carson Palmer the best QB in the NFL becuase he has the worst defense? Nice logic.
You stopped trying to honestly give and support and opinion about 45 pages ago.