Manning is more skilled than Brady? Please explain.

[Deus Irae]

(Please note that I'm not asking this to bash Manning, or anyone else for that matter. I'm just trying to get a better grasp of the thinking behind the claim, since it's not just Colts fans who put this forth.)

On another thread, someone made an assertion that I see made quite a bit on message boards, radio programs and television, in one form or another:

Manning: Better skillsets and stats.
Brady: Better instincts and intangibles.

That post brought to mind a question I often ask and never get a satisfactory answer to:

What "skillsets" is Manning better at than Brady?

Is Manning more accurate than Brady? His completion % overall is higher, but does it hold up when you adjust for conditions? What about once you adjust for receiver quality?

Is Manning's arm stronger than Brady's? If so, is the difference really enough to make a difference? Should the difference, if any, really be called a skillset?

Does Manning read defenses better than Brady? If someone says "yes", what's the evidence?

Is Manning a better leader of football players than Brady? Again, if someone says "yes", what's the evidence?

Is Manning better at maneuvering in the pocket?

Does Manning make better adjustments?


What skills does Manning have that are superior to Brady's, and what is the evidence for the claim? Anyone.....?

 

[BradyFTW!]

He's demonstrably better at waving his arms around at the line of scrimmage, so there is that.

 

[aurakilla]

he helps lead the colts to Ws all season..............then playoff time forgets how to throw the ball, except for 1 season.

 

[nabwong]

(Please note that I'm not asking this to bash Manning, or anyone else for that matter. I'm just trying to get a better grasp of the thinking behind the claim, since it's not just Colts fans who put this forth.)

On another thread, someone made an assertion that I see made quite a bit on message boards, radio programs and television, in one form or another:



That post brought to mind a question I often ask and never get a satisfactory answer to:

What "skillsets" is Manning better at than Brady?

Is Manning more accurate than Brady? His completion % overall is higher, but does it hold up when you adjust for conditions? What about once you adjust for receiver quality?

Is Manning's arm stronger than Brady's? If so, is the difference really enough to make a difference? Should the difference, if any, really be called a skillset?

Does Manning read defenses better than Brady? If someone says "yes", what's the evidence?

Is Manning a better leader of football players than Brady? Again, if someone says "yes", what's the evidence?

Is Manning better at maneuvering in the pocket?

Does Manning make better adjustments?


What skills does Manning have that are superior to Brady's, and what is the evidence for the claim? Anyone.....?

Couldn't you reverse this also? What evidence is Brady better than Manning? (don't say 2 more superbowls).

I just think that we can never quantify them. They're both great players. The patriots will always rather have Brady and the Colts will always rather have Manning. If Brady did not exist, we'd all want Manning to be our QB.

 

[jmt57]

He is more skilled at letting everybody know he might be calling an audible.

He is more skilled at growing a forehead.

He is more skilled on SNL skits.

He is more skilled at Oreo licking competitions.

He is more skilled in communicating to the media that it was the offensive line's fault.

He is more skilled at Riverdance impersonations when there is pocket pressure.

 

[Keegs]

Couldn't you reverse this also? What evidence is Brady better than Manning? (don't say 2 more superbowls).

I just think that we can never quantify them. They're both great players. The patriots will always rather have Brady and the Colts will always rather have Manning. If Brady did not exist, we'd all want Manning to be our QB.

i wouldn't

id want big ben

 

[matt9071]

He is more skilled at letting everybody know he might be calling an audible.

He is more skilled at growing a forehead.

He is more skilled on SNL skits.

He is more skilled at Oreo licking competitions.

He is more skilled in communicating to the media that it was the offensive line's fault.

He is more skilled at Riverdance impersonations when there is pocket pressure.

Agreed although Brady did have a solid SNL appearance.

 

[bagwell368]

Manning plays in a dome. Manning has had on average the most expensive offense in the league since his 2nd year, and far better WR, TE, RB's to catch and run the ball then the Pats have had. Those two things account for Mannings better regular season stats - 25 ypg and 1.8 higher QB rating then Brady.

However, in the playoffs, he goes hysterical (see tape of Jan '04 and Jan '05 playoff games in Foxboro, loses his cool, demonstrates he isn't a leader, and his QB rating is 5 points worse then his regular season, while Brady's is better in the playoffs against better teams.

Brady has made far more out of what he has to work with in terms of skill players. He was a low draft pick, and his lifetime earnings are still well below Mannings in total and average by year. This allows the Pats to get more solid players to put around him, while Manning's Colts are built around 5-6 stars.

Manning wins the battle of commercials. Sadly for him the Colts are going into decline for the next 3 years at least, and by the time they come out of it, Manning will likely be done, or near done, no more SB for you!

 

[feldspar]

Well, Brady and Manning are both excellent QBs. You can argue which one is better until the moon goes down.

Manning, however, calls his own plays and does audibles...actually calls the shots a LOT more than Brady. Also, Manning hasn't had the benefit of a decent defense for much or most of his time in Indy. That's why Manning has had to shoulder the burden of his whole team in his time in Indy more than Brady has...a lot more, I'd say.

I figure Brady has had the benefit of a lot of things, including better coaching, something you shouldn't underestimate.

It would take me quite some time to consider which of these two I'd rather have on my team during his prime. But I'd have to go with Manning right now. Sorry, but he's much more accomplished. You can't pin the winning or losing of Super Bowls on one guy, so don't bring that up as an indicator.

Manning has NINE season of over 4,000 yards. His other two seasons were pretty close to 4,000...both under 300 yards to that mark. This is an incredible feat, folks. Meanwhile, Tom has had only TWO seasons of over 4,000 yards.

Brady fumbles the ball A LOT more than Manning...a lot more.

If you care about passer rating, Peyton's is higher than Tom's. His completion percentage is slightly higher.

Manning is less than a year and a half older than Brady, and Manning has...

19,128 more yards
136 more touchdowns

Manning has just done more...a lot more. Manning is probably the best pure passer I've seen. Not to put Brady down; he's damn good as well.

You asked, I told.

 

[glm]

Well, Brady and Manning are both excellent QBs. You can argue which one is better until the moon goes down.

Manning, however, calls his own plays and does audibles...actually calls the shots a LOT more than Brady. Also, Manning hasn't had the benefit of a decent defense for much or most of his time in Indy. That's why Manning has had to shoulder the burden of his whole team in his time in Indy more than Brady has...a lot more, I'd say.

I figure Brady has had the benefit of a lot of things, including better coaching, something you shouldn't underestimate.

It would take me quite some time to consider which of these two I'd rather have on my team during his prime. But I'd have to go with Manning right now. Sorry, but he's much more accomplished. You can't pin the winning or losing of Super Bowls on one guy, so don't bring that up as an indicator.

Manning has NINE season of over 4,000 yards. His other two seasons were pretty close to 4,000...both under 300 yards to that mark. This is an incredible feat, folks. Meanwhile, Tom has had only TWO seasons of over 4,000 yards.

Brady fumbles the ball A LOT more than Manning...a lot more.

If you care about passer rating, Peyton's is higher than Tom's. His completion percentage is slightly higher.

Manning is less than a year and a half older than Brady, and Manning has...

19,128 more yards
136 more touchdowns

Manning has just done more...a lot more. Manning is probably the best pure passer I've seen. Not to put Brady down; he's damn good as well.

You asked, I told.

So, how's Manning in the postseason?

 

[upstater1]

Well, Brady and Manning are both excellent QBs. You can argue which one is better until the moon goes down.

Manning, however, calls his own plays and does audibles...actually calls the shots a LOT more than Brady. Also, Manning hasn't had the benefit of a decent defense for much or most of his time in Indy. That's why Manning has had to shoulder the burden of his whole team in his time in Indy more than Brady has...a lot more, I'd say.

I figure Brady has had the benefit of a lot of things, including better coaching, something you shouldn't underestimate.

It would take me quite some time to consider which of these two I'd rather have on my team during his prime. But I'd have to go with Manning right now. Sorry, but he's much more accomplished. You can't pin the winning or losing of Super Bowls on one guy, so don't bring that up as an indicator.

Manning has NINE season of over 4,000 yards. His other two seasons were pretty close to 4,000...both under 300 yards to that mark. This is an incredible feat, folks. Meanwhile, Tom has had only TWO seasons of over 4,000 yards.

Brady fumbles the ball A LOT more than Manning...a lot more.

If you care about passer rating, Peyton's is higher than Tom's. His completion percentage is slightly higher.

Manning is less than a year and a half older than Brady, and Manning has...

19,128 more yards
136 more touchdowns

Manning has just done more...a lot more. Manning is probably the best pure passer I've seen. Not to put Brady down; he's damn good as well.

You asked, I told.

You're blinder than blind. Manning is a huge choke artist who has had all world weapons on offense, and he just turtled in the playoffs and threw interceptions left and right.

 

[feldspar]

I think Brady beats him in every single one of those categories except accuracy.

See post #9.

 

[TruthSeeker]

My impression is that Manning is more accurate than Brady when he is in the pocket. His accuracy is worse, however, when he is on the move.

I can't see any difference in the speed of the ball (i.e. arm strength) between the two.

They both slide around the pocket well; Brady is probably the best in the League at that.

Tom Brady handles adversity better and is a great leader.

They both work really hard.

Oh, and Brady is much more clutch.

 

[Wildo7]

Well, Brady and Manning are both excellent QBs. You can argue which one is better until the moon goes down.

Manning, however, calls his own plays and does audibles...actually calls the shots a LOT more than Brady. Also, Manning hasn't had the benefit of a decent defense for much or most of his time in Indy. That's why Manning has had to shoulder the burden of his whole team in his time in Indy more than Brady has...a lot more, I'd say.

I figure Brady has had the benefit of a lot of things, including better coaching, something you shouldn't underestimate.

It would take me quite some time to consider which of these two I'd rather have on my team during his prime. But I'd have to go with Manning right now. Sorry, but he's much more accomplished. You can't pin the winning or losing of Super Bowls on one guy, so don't bring that up as an indicator.

Manning has NINE season of over 4,000 yards. His other two seasons were pretty close to 4,000...both under 300 yards to that mark. This is an incredible feat, folks. Meanwhile, Tom has had only TWO seasons of over 4,000 yards.

Brady fumbles the ball A LOT more than Manning...a lot more.

If you care about passer rating, Peyton's is higher than Tom's. His completion percentage is slightly higher.

Manning is less than a year and a half older than Brady, and Manning has...

19,128 more yards
136 more touchdowns

Manning has just done more...a lot more. Manning is probably the best pure passer I've seen. Not to put Brady down; he's damn good as well.

You asked, I told.

So the fact that Manning has had an all pro WR core around him for his entore career, and has played his entire career in a dome (and struggled in outdoor games) has no bearing on the statistical discrepancy?

The first full season Brady had with weapons comparable to Peyton's, he blew the doors off the league even without the dome factor.

The only reason why it's even a question at this point is because Peyton was drafted higher and was hyped coming out of college and started in the league earlier than Brady did.

I guarantee you that Brady has a much bigger impact on the rest of the team than Manning does.

 

[Dirk3601215]

He is more skilled at letting everybody know he might be calling an audible.

He is more skilled at growing a forehead.

He is more skilled on SNL skits.

He is more skilled at Oreo licking competitions.

He is more skilled in communicating to the media that it was the offensive line's fault.

He is more skilled at Riverdance impersonations when there is pocket pressure.

Brady's SNL was pretty funny.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

i've argued this a lot on the colts board. manning is a better regular season quarterback and not so much a playoff qb. He's thrown 22 TDs in the playoffs: 9 TDs have been in two games against the Denver Broncos. Take those two Bronco games away and he's only thrown 13 tds in 13 playoff games. this is very average for a qb of manning's stature. also, manning has thrown for 0 or 1 td in 12 out of 15 playoff games or something to that extent. this is why the colts keep losing in the playoffs - manning. all i hear is peyton doesn't have a defense, offense, coaching or special teams from colts fans every year. in the post season you have to be wired differently as a qb. peyton doesn not have the mindset of a great playoff quarterback. in the playoffs you have to go on the road in places like NE, Denver, Pitt and Baltimore. you don't always have the opportunity to stay in a warm fuzzy dome.

 

[eagle eye]

Ok Feldspar, I will ask you to answer these questions.

You have a choice of either Brady or Manning for the Superbowl.

Who do you go with and why?

I want the plus and minus for both.

Who is the best quarterback in history not including any of the present players? And why do you rate that guy no.1?


Just so I can get a handle on where you are coming from.

 

[Dirk3601215]

Well, Brady and Manning are both excellent QBs. You can argue which one is better until the moon goes down.

Manning, however, calls his own plays and does audibles...actually calls the shots a LOT more than Brady. Also, Manning hasn't had the benefit of a decent defense for much or most of his time in Indy. That's why Manning has had to shoulder the burden of his whole team in his time in Indy more than Brady has...a lot more, I'd say.

I figure Brady has had the benefit of a lot of things, including better coaching, something you shouldn't underestimate.

It would take me quite some time to consider which of these two I'd rather have on my team during his prime. But I'd have to go with Manning right now. Sorry, but he's much more accomplished. You can't pin the winning or losing of Super Bowls on one guy, so don't bring that up as an indicator.

Manning has NINE season of over 4,000 yards. His other two seasons were pretty close to 4,000...both under 300 yards to that mark. This is an incredible feat, folks. Meanwhile, Tom has had only TWO seasons of over 4,000 yards.

Brady fumbles the ball A LOT more than Manning...a lot more.

If you care about passer rating, Peyton's is higher than Tom's. His completion percentage is slightly higher.

Manning is less than a year and a half older than Brady, and Manning has...

19,128 more yards
136 more touchdowns

Manning has just done more...a lot more. Manning is probably the best pure passer I've seen. Not to put Brady down; he's damn good as well.

You asked, I told.

The fact that Peyton has played with Marvin Harrison his whole career obviously didn't enter into your reasoning. Brady's played with scrubs his whole career.

Neither did the fact that he plays indoors. Like, you know, where snow CAN'T get in. Brady plays outside. You know, where snow and rain and wind and the cold and all that other stuff that happens outdoors CAN get in. U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D?

Regular season numbers FTL. Wanna post some playoff stats please?

 

[feldspar]

So, how's Manning in the postseason?

What, like in 2000, when he posted a 121.4 QB rating, completing 72.7% of his passes for two TDs and 0 INTs in Indy's only playoff game? Do you figure that it's his fault the Colts lost that game?

2002, not so good.

2003, excellent in 2 of 3 games. Absolutely mind-blowing excellent...until he faced New England. First game, 158.3 rating...I'm not sure, but I don't think you can do better than that...5 TDs, 0 INTs, 84.6% completions, 377 yards. Second game, 138.8 rating, 73.3% completions for 304 yards, 3 TDs and 0 INTs. Then it all fell to sh*t in New England.

2004 - One game...excellent again statistically, although I don't know why he only attempted 10 passes. According to nfl.com, he completed 6 of those 10 passes though, and HALF of them were for touchdowns. 3 TDs and 0 INTs for a passer rating of 143.8. The Colts lost that game. Was it Manning's fault?

2005 - had one bad game in the playoffs. Pretty bad, actually.

2006 - didn't have the best postseason, but the Colts win the Super Bowl anyway. They came in as a Wild Card and benefited from their defense stepping up. Are you going to give him credit for winning this Super Bowl. Well, you should, if you are going to give Brady credit for winning three.

2007 - had a pretty good game, but his team lost. 118.5 QB rating.

2008 - good game. Manning completed 59.5% of his passes for 310 yards, a TD, and no INTs.


There you have Manning's postseason history. It's not the choke-job people make it out to be. And without Adam Vinatieri, Brady might not be labeled Mr. Perfect, or whatever the hell...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

FWIW, I once took a look at this (I was bored or sick or something. . . .).

If you go game-by-game, and compare Brady and Manning, you'll find that by the end of their 16th games as starters, Brady had a higher QB rating than Manning—and that never changes.