Zappe vs Mac

[catent]

I expect Mac to be back at QB this week. Did he look good, no, but Zappe didn't do anything to distinguish himself after the first two series which he took over in Bears territory. It also didn't help that Trent Brown played the worst game of his career either.

Jones didn’t get pulled spontaneously. BB only does that - especially so quickly - if he had given it thought and decided that was a real possibility before the game began.

I’m not sure if Zappe can win you tough games when you need him to. I’d like to think so, but we need to see more. If nothing else, Zappe has demonstrated he won’t lose you the game, which is more than can be said for Jones so far this season.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I expect Mac to be back at QB this week. Did he look good, no, but Zappe didn't do anything to distinguish himself after the first two series which he took over in Bears territory. It also didn't help that Trent Brown played the worst game of his career either.

The fact that a rookie QB after 3.5 games doesn’t look much worse if at all than a 2nd year 1st round pick with 21 games of experience should be a good thing for the rookie, not the starter.

 

[PaulThePat]

To be totally candid, it seems a lot of the people griping about the offensive play-calling are doing so in the context of attempting to explain/excuse Jones’ poor play this season.

You need to stop being so defensive. You like Zappe. Great. Don't care. However, I do care that we replaced McDaniels with Patricia and Judge. If you honestly think Judge is the man to nurture future NE QBs then I suggest you watch some film of Daniel Jones under judge and compare to Daboll.

 

[Love The Drake]

You need to stop being so defensive. You like Zappe. Great. Don't care. However, I do care that we replaced McDaniels with Patricia and Judge. If you honestly think Judge is the man to nurture future NE QBs then I suggest you watch some film of Daniel Jones under judge and compare to Daboll.

This is incredibly valid give Judge his special teams role back made him go special teams coach who cares.
What about bringing in Zappes college OC as a coach or better yet get Obrein.

 

[catent]

You need to stop being so defensive. You like Zappe. Great. Don't care. However, I do care that we replaced McDaniels with Patricia and Judge. If you honestly think Judge is the man to nurture future NE QBs then I suggest you watch some film of Daniel Jones under judge and compare to Daboll.

Not being defensive at all. That’s my observation based on reading the forum over the past few weeks.

I’m not particularly defensive of anyone after last night, but I will call out takes that are inconsistent with the actual evidence we have so far.

You claimed the offensive play-calling and direction has been terrible this season. I don’t think that’s actually been the case. Not perfect, no, but it’s been far from a disaster.

Maybe the QB coaching is lacking more so than the offensive play-calling?

 

[upstater1]

You need to stop being so defensive. You like Zappe. Great. Don't care. However, I do care that we replaced McDaniels with Patricia and Judge. If you honestly think Judge is the man to nurture future NE QBs then I suggest you watch some film of Daniel Jones under judge and compare to Daboll.

I don't know why people keep saying this but, Daboll has largely given up on Daniel Jones.

Judge hadn't.

They still expected D Jones to make the throws. Daboll does not. He gameplans around Jones.

D Jones is not the QB for Daboll and I expect they'll move on from him this year.

That being said, I am not behind Judge and Patricia

 

[PaulThePat]

Maybe the QB coaching is lacking more so than the offensive play-calling?

That was my point. Lacking would appear an understatement. I'm a firm believer in the right tools for the job. Why put the most important position in the team under the control of a Defensive Coordinator and a Special Teams Coordinator. Get some f***** actual offensive coaches. Stop trying to outsmart the NFL. Those days are over.

 

[upstater1]

Playcalling may not be an issue. I don't have an issue with it.

Play design I have a big issue with.

We are so far off on offense just in terms of spacing.

 

[State]

One of Zappe’s tips was when Ferentz replaced Andrews and was put on roller skates by a Bears player. Not a good look.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Zappe made a couple of good throws last night, the contested Parker catch and the flare out to Stevenson. Other than that he was bad - worse than Mac. We learned that he's not good enough.

Mac's INT was the kind of thing he's done in other games too, but he's the more talented guy and should start going forward.

 

[Love The Drake]

Zappe made a couple of good throws last night, the contested Parker catch and the flare out to Stevenson. Other than that he was bad - worse than Mac. We learned that he's not good enough.

Mac's INT was the kind of thing he's done in other games too, but he's the more talented guy and should start going forward.

More talented why?
Cause he want to Alabama and threw to future NFL stars?
While protected by an all star O line coached by the best coaches in college football.
Was a first round pick?
By that logic Jamarcus Russsel Ryan Leaf and Jameis Winston, Akili Smith are hall of famers.
Mac Jones is following the career path of Josh Rosen.

 

[bigballas]

Zappe made a couple of good throws last night, the contested Parker catch and the flare out to Stevenson. Other than that he was bad - worse than Mac. We learned that he's not good enough.

Mac's INT was the kind of thing he's done in other games too, but he's the more talented guy and should start going forward.

Well, to play devils advocate…Mac got first team reps in practice this week. Maybe it’s a diff look if Zappe had more first team reps….

 

[upstater1]

We're entering a very dangerous period for this team where the fanbase is arguing over mediocre to bad QB play. And this is happening just as the team is finding players to plug in and make a run for greater things next year. Our D-backfield is almost solved. We're doing ok to well on WRs and RBs. Interior OL features 2 young guys with real talent. Judon, Barmore, Wise, Godchaux are better than most DLs in the league.

Linebackers and tackles, linebackers and tackles, linebackers and tackles. Focus on these positions. Fix them. Let's go.

But then there's the QB position.

We MUST have patience. If Belichick feels one of these guys is limited, then he MUST choose the other guy and develop him. The last thing we want to do is go on a QB merry-go-round.

Don't go looking through the wilderness of finding a QB replacement year after year when your guy strikes out.

Look at our division:

1. Jim Kelly left and the Bills spent #1 picks year after year after year and it never worked out until they found their stud in Josh Allen. 30 years. #1 picks expended on Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, JP Losman, EJ Manuel, and you had Tyrod Taylor and Fitzpatrick and Doug Flutie in there too. A freakin nightmare!

2. The Jets could've won in the 1990s with Vinny Testaverde. But then they went through the last 20 years spending top picks on Mark Sanchez, Christian Hackenberg, Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Kellen Clemens and they're about to give up on Zach Wilson (if you listen to the NY media).

3. Dan Marino leaves and sorry I'm not going to run down the fiasco in Miami when it comes to QB. I'll only say, the last thing we want to do is give up on a Ryan Tannehill too early only to replace him with a guy that lacks accuracy like Tua. I would take Tannehill over Tua any day of the week.

We need to develop our QB and not give up on them so quickly. And yes I'm talking about Mac. It should be clear as you look around the league that QBs are struggling badly. The entire 2021 QB draft class is struggling including Trevor Lawrence the #1 pick who has severe accuracy issues. Even Herbert in San Diego is having a hard time this year. Prior QB classes like Trubisky, Goff, Mariota, Baker Mayfield, Darnold, they've already flamed out.

I look at Justin Fields and I think that with good coaching there's no reason he couldn't become another Lamar Jackson. He already has a better arm. Let him develop and you may see some great play for him (he makes so many bad decisions). He's another guy I'd be very patient with.

The idea that we're going to find a unicorn like Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes? Disabuse yourselves of that notion because it takes generations to do that. The odds are slim. Develop your guys. Coach the rest of the players. Stay with the plan. Let it take its course. Have patience.

DO NOT JUMP ON THE QB MERRY-GO-ROUND.

Caveat: Judge and Patricia must reassess whatever they are doing. This huge drop in our QB play is largely on them.

 

[amfootball]

Well, to play devils advocate…Mac got first team reps in practice this week. Maybe it’s a diff look if Zappe had more first team reps….

Yeah. My thinking too. Give Zappe the snaps this week and let him go vs the Jete

 

[rogerthat]

Zappe made a couple of good throws last night, the contested Parker catch and the flare out to Stevenson. Other than that he was bad - worse than Mac. We learned that he's not good enough.

Mac's INT was the kind of thing he's done in other games too, but he's the more talented guy and should start going forward.

Ridiculous. A rookie QB struggles one half out of what- 7, and you are ready to throw him in the trash heap? Zappe is the better football player right now and it's not even close. And he may very well be the guy. He's a rookie and he was going to struggle at some point- as all rookies do.

 

[Bfanlc]

So if they really commit to one guy going forward, I feel like it makes more sense for it to be Zappe at this point.

Jones had his opportunity to respond tonight and dropped the ball. The fact he was pulled so early tells me Belichick was prepared to bench him for performance reasons, which means the leash was shortened coming into tonight. The fact Belichick was thinking that way should say a lot.

Here's why sticking with Jones presents a problem IMO:

Should Jones continue to play poorly, you're really stuck with him, barring benching him (again) which would create another fiasco, not to mention walking back your commitment to the team that Jones is the guy for the time being.

Jones had issues early in the season, got time away due to injury, returned and those same issues picked right back up like they never missed a beat. If you commit to Jones and these issues don't go away, and the turnovers, poor pocket awareness and field vision all continue, you're really in a tough spot because he's close to unplayable right now with the turnovers.

If you commit to Zappe, you get someone that while limited and lacking in experience, hasn't demonstrated repeated struggles throughout the season. Given his limitations (and strengths), I get the sense you have more upside with Zappe right now and can build around the things he does things well. You can work with altered release points, throwing angles/windows/lanes, play-calls/route-combos to hide those flaws. On the other hand, if your QB simply isn't feeling the pocket well, nor seeing the field well, and is turning the ball over, you can't game-plan around that, I'm afraid.

Basically, Jones has been making repeated mistakes. He had the opportunity to respond tonight but continued to have the same problems, leading to him being benched (which didn't happen in the moment ; Jones being benched was certainly settled upon as a possibility in advance of tonight's game, for it to happen so quickly after his struggles tonight). Making a commitment to Jones for the the foreseeable future and having him continue to play poorly creates a really tricky situation.

On the other hand, Zappe has not made repeated mistakes. His game was exposed tonight, no doubt - he has limitations and flaws he must work on. But, I didn't see repeated errors, and many of his positive traits - pocket presence, poise, accuracy, arm zip - were all still present despite some of his newfound struggles. If you roll with Zappe and he stinks it up, it feels a bit easier to say, "OK, Jones, give it a whirl again" than vice versa, considering how this has all transpired.

Zappe threw a 50/50 ball that was caught for a long gain. He also almost completely missed a wide open, and I mean wide open, receiver. The receiver had to adjust and make a great play on the ball. He threw another pass to a rb out of the back field for a long gain. When he tried it again the Bears were ready for it.

I'm sorry but if Mac is responsible for his turnovers and bad play so is Zappe. I think Zappe is too short and you'll continually get batted balls from him. Mac led this team to wins last year. The reason for the change in Mac is obvious.

Im gonna say this and it won't be popular but what Bill has done to this team is almost a fireable offense.

 

[Bfanlc]

We're doing ok to well on WRs

I think we have one good receiver and still a bunch of nothing. Do any of our receivers make other defenses fear them? I don't think so.
Look at Waddle and Hill at Miami. Who would you rather have...our guys or theirs?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Neither are able to take advantage of Thorntons speed

 

[Stu Pidassle]

By all accounts the offensive play calling has been pretty good. We have analyses showing as much.

One flukey game under the most ridiculous of circumstances doesn’t change what has happened so far most of this season.

People are prisoner’s of the moment. The defense was a much bigger issue than the offense last night.

To be totally candid, it seems a lot of the people griping about the offensive play-calling are doing so in the context of attempting to explain/excuse Jones’ poor play this season.

There was consensus on this board that the Bears had a good defense and a very bad offense. The expectation was that it would be a low scoring game. The Bears defense lived up to expectations, the real failure was on defense. How did that team score 33 points?

 

[catent]

Zappe threw a 50/50 ball that was caught for a long gain. He also almost completely missed a wide open, and I mean wide open, receiver. The receiver had to adjust and make a great play on the ball. He threw another pass to a rb out of the back field for a long gain. When he tried it again the Bears were ready for it.

I'm sorry but if Mac is responsible for his turnovers and bad play so is Zappe. I think Zappe is too short and you'll continually get batted balls from him. Mac led this team to wins last year. The reason for the change in Mac is obvious.

Im gonna say this and it won't be popular but what Bill has done to this team is almost a fireable offense.

Zappe and Jones are both responsible for their turnovers. OK, that’s fair.

For what it is worth, Jones has turned the ball over twice as many times as Zappe this season.