Yes, Asiasi and Keene Are Flops

[patsfanincleveland]

I've held back but you're a total psycho on this forum. Let's see, how many fights have you picked here? You're an acerbic troll but goes crazy when someone disagrees with you. And just to rile you up since you're so easily riled, Cleveland is a wasteland and hope you have working heat this coming winter.

.

Look around where you live and realize we here in Northeast Ohio have teeth.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fair enough but it's a stretch to take credit for what a guy did 3-4 years later and with different coaches developing him. The analogy was apt in busting on 2 TEs and 1 WR in 2006 then doing the same thing about 12-13 years later with the same head of offense.

Dave Thomas was not beating out Ben Watson and Danny Graham in 06 or Ben and Kyle Brady in 07 here. When Cassel took over he wasn't part of the running game here in 08 so that was it for him. He had a couple of decent years in NO but was nothing special where he served as mainly a check down for Brees.

In hindsight probably a reach pick at the end of the 3rd round but whatever

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Dave Thomas was not beating out Ben Watson and Danny Graham in 06 or Ben and Kyle Brady in 07 here. When Cassel took over he wasn't part of the running game here in 08 so that was it for him. He had a couple of decent years in NO but was nothing special where he served as mainly a check down for Brees.

In hindsight probably a reach pick at the end of the 3rd round but whatever

Wait until he gets on a rantpage about Kyle Eckel.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

No doubt signing two top tier UFA's at TE this year is a clear indictment of AsiAsi and Keene. It certainly is possible that one or both of them are gone in the next 2 years.


However, these 2 rookies were at a huge disadvantage last year with no OTA's, training camp or preseason games, a new starting QB who did not know the playbook and got COVID after the 2nd game.

I think to be fair they absolutely both deserve a mulligan and one more year to show if they are players or not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No doubt signing two top tier UFA's at TE this year is a clear indictment of AsiAsi and Keene. It certainly is possible that one or both of them are gone in the next 2 years.


However, these 2 rookies were at a huge disadvantage last year with no OTA's, training camp or preseason games, a new starting QB who did not know the playbook and got COVID after the 2nd game.

I think to be fair they absolutely both deserve a mulligan and one more year to show if they are players or not.

What was the indictment? That they weren't the 2nd coming of Gronk and AH circa 2010? If that is your point- I agree.

Landing both Smith and Henry was a rare opportunity and Bill took advantage of it. Thats really all there is to it.

Like you said the kids were at a massive disadvantage last year. No camp. Got hurt. Bill has no idea if they are players or not.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Landing both Smith and Henry was a rare opportunity and Bill took advantage of it. Thats really all there is to it.

That's the point. It really doesn't matter what you currently have if there's a clear opportunity to make the team better. It's like when Justin Bethel became available in 2019: they already had Slater and Ebner, but that didn't stop Belichick from signing him.

 

[mgteich]

It's entirely possible that he thinks highly of the potential of Keene and Asiasi, but thinks their ceiling maybe won't match either Smith or Henry. He also had money to burn and two excellent, proven TEs on the market, so he took advantage of the situation to upgrade.

Upgrading somewhere doesn't mean you think the player you're upgrading is bad. It could simply mean that you think other guys are better.

Money to burn?

He might have used some of the money to sign Thuney, another player, to extend Jackson or to extend Gilmore. Also, that money could have been used in 2022.

That being said, I'm fine with signings. We needed the upgrades.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's the point. It really doesn't matter what you currently have if there's a clear opportunity to make the team better. It's like when Justin Bethel became available in 2019: they already had Slater and Ebner, but that didn't stop Belichick from signing him.

It's ok to admit that the pair flopped, and that the Patriots were desperate as a result. People can still hope that the second year players show some level of improvement moving forward. The board, even more than most years, seems to be far too busy missing most of the mid-range for the sake of the extreme points on these issues.


And Bethel wasn't a huge expenditure, while the TEs were, so the comparison really doesn't hold up.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Money to burn?

He might have used some of the money to sign Thuney, another player, to extend Jackson or to extend Gilmore. Also, that money could have been used in 2022.

That being said, I'm fine with signings. We needed the upgrades.

You won't get through to them...don't even bother trying.

The Patriots had all this cap space in 2021, which has been pointed out over and over by people with a brain cell, could have been used to easily backload and offset contracts during the 2020 offseason (Brady). Yet, they claim that the team WaS bRoKe in 2020 and had no choice but to let go of the greatest player in NFL history...there is a lot of this moneybags/cheapskate dichotomy with the Gronkowski and his subsequent replacements too.

The most salary cap disciplined team in the history of the universe was so damn careful and committed to every tiny fraction of a penny and cap percentage (quarterback cannot exceed 13% of the cap!!!) - to eliminate the risk of handing out an extra contract year to a player where age was a concern, or to increase the salary of the greatest TE ever without BS incentives.

But now? Now? Well, I'll tell you about now. Now, they just have a bunch of money to burn, baby!!!!!! Burn it all up!! Screw value, cap percentages, positional allocation, etc. It's Jonnu Smith and Hunter Henry we're talking about!!! The Jonnu Smith. The Hunter Henry. The Nelson Algohor. (Ric Flair: whooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!)

 

[Sicilian]

It's ok to admit that the pair flopped, and that the Patriots were desperate as a result. People can still hope that the second year players show some level of improvement moving forward. The board, even more than most years, seems to be far too busy missing most of the mid-range for the sake of the extreme points on these issues.


And Bethel wasn't a huge expenditure, while the TEs were, so the comparison really doesn't hold up.

See, to me, saying players are flops after one year IS an extreme point on this issue. Saying let's see what they give us in year 2 with a bit more "normal" circumstances before declaring, definitively, that they are flops is mid-range.

 

[Deus Irae]

See, to me, saying players are flops after one year IS an extreme point on this issue.

But it's obviously not. There are players where you "know" in just a practice or two, yet people here continue to pretend that there's some nearly-set minimum of time required for draftees, as long as they are Patriots draftees. I mean, you know that people here have no problem calling other teams' draftees busts in year one. The sensible position to take on this thread's title is to say "Yes, they flopped. That can obviously then be followed up with something like "But the team has looked to fix that problem, and hopefully one or both of these kids can surprise us moving forward", if one is an optimist or just thinks the particular circumstances merit it. But, for some reason, we rarely seem to take such sensible approaches to failed Patriots players around here.

Saying let's see what they give us in year 2 with a bit more "normal" circumstances before declaring, definitively, that they are flops is mid-range.

There's a difference between giving players second chances and pretending they haven't been flops. There's also a difference between evaluating an entire draft class and evaluating individual players. And we also generally acknowledge a difference in how teams handle high round players versus how they handle lower round players. If the Patriots cut Tre Nixon this offseason, few will be screaming about him needing 2-3 years to show out, but Barmore/Jones getting the axe would lead to much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

What was the indictment? That they weren't the 2nd coming of Gronk and AH circa 2010? If that is your point- I agree.

Landing both Smith and Henry was a rare opportunity and Bill took advantage of it. Thats really all there is to it.

Like you said the kids were at a massive disadvantage last year. No camp. Got hurt. Bill has no idea if they are players or not.

Did the Pats really need two TE's from the UFA market? Couldn't that money have been spent elsewhere?

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

You know what should baffle you? It should baffle you that Belichick ever cuts a young player from his 90 man roster. After all, the team is all about being patient and developing players, right?

Now your taking my words twisting them a bit and to the extreme. Context matters. I don't think Asiasi and Keene were in an ideal situation last year ontop of playing in a position where usually players don't start contributing routinely until around year 3.

I think we upgraded the TE room and Asiasi as TE3 is actually a good thing for both team and player.

I never said the team was ALL about patience and developing players ..but it has been a big part of their identity. So yeah I think given the season last year...calling asiasi and Keene busts is pretty harsh. I'm not predicting they make the final 53 .....but I wouldn't be shocked if they did.

Jake Bequette anyone?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Did the Pats really need two TE's from the UFA market? Couldn't that money have been spent elsewhere?

Where? Who?

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Where? Who?

rEsiGninG BrAdy and ThuNeY dude.

 

[RobertWeathers]

rEsiGninG BrAdy and ThuNeY dude.

gawd...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Now your taking my words twisting them a bit and to the extreme. Context matters. I don't think Asiasi and Keene were in an ideal situation last year ontop of playing in a position where usually players don't start contributing routinely until around year 3.

I think we upgraded the TE room and Asiasi as TE3 is actually a good thing for both team and player.

I never said the team was ALL about patience and developing players ..but it has been a big part of their identity. So yeah I think given the season last year...calling asiasi and Keene busts is pretty harsh. I'm not predicting they make the final 53 .....but I wouldn't be shocked if they did.

Jake Bequette anyone?

Dont fall into the Deus trap. Hes full of it.

 

[50-yard-line]

You won't get through to them...don't even bother trying.

The Patriots had all this cap space in 2021, which has been pointed out over and over by people with a brain cell, could have been used to easily backload and offset contracts during the 2020 offseason (Brady). Yet, they claim that the team WaS bRoKe in 2020 and had no choice but to let go of the greatest player in NFL history...there is a lot of this moneybags/cheapskate dichotomy with the Gronkowski and his subsequent replacements too.

The most salary cap disciplined team in the history of the universe was so damn careful and committed to every tiny fraction of a penny and cap percentage (quarterback cannot exceed 13% of the cap!!!) - to eliminate the risk of handing out an extra contract year to a player where age was a concern, or to increase the salary of the greatest TE ever without BS incentives.

But now? Now? Well, I'll tell you about now. Now, they just have a bunch of money to burn, baby!!!!!! Burn it all up!! Screw value, cap percentages, positional allocation, etc. It's Jonnu Smith and Hunter Henry we're talking about!!! The Jonnu Smith. The Hunter Henry. The Nelson Algohor. (Ric Flair: whooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!)

smh

 

[captain stone]

Captain likes to take shots at every single BB draft pick and FA acquisition. Thats his shtick.

That's not true (I liked the Mac Jones pick, for instance) and it isn't shtick if time shows many of these warnings to be well-founded.

 

[captain stone]

Like you said the kids were at a massive disadvantage last year. No camp. Got hurt. Bill has no idea if they are players or not.

I think Bill might already have an idea if they're players or not...