Wtf happened with Brissett deal?

[HailHydra]

What is this nonsense? The reason Brissett can possibly land a 2rd round is we traded him to Colts and he played one entire season. If we kept him, he still is worth nothing.

We traded a player who started 2 games for us, and didn't play too poorly (1-1) for a player whose on the roster bubble. Now, we have a terrible Brian Hoyer and a 7th round pick rounding out our depth chart. Brissett was better than both and under a rookie deal.

 

[HailHydra]

So Brissett's trade value would be exactly the same if he had been standing on the sidelines in New England for another year instead of starting in Indy?

If Garoppolo's trade value from playing 2.5 games = 2nd round pick, then Brissett's value could've been at least a 4th?

 

[HailHydra]

No

Brissett is better than Hoyer.

 

[Kdo5]

I think we messed up giving up on this kid so soon, hope Dorsett makes it worth it but I’m not sure he even makes the roster. Brissett did well last year considering. Not sure he ever becomes a real good starter, but I think he’ll be in this league a decade from now still.

He got killed last season behind an absolutely god awful offensive line. 50+ sacks. Maybe some were on him but that is still very bad. And all things considered he held up decently.

I doubt he'll ever be a real starter but probably a decent backup.

 

[patfanken]

The problem with the jimmy G trade is B.B. turned down Cleveland’s offer of a first round pick which ended up being 4 overall in 2018 draft.

You make that statement as if the Cleveland offer was a proven FACT, NG, when the truth of it is the Cleveland brass has NEVER confirmed it.

There are dozens of "reports" that teams have offered this or that for a player, every year. For the most part they turn out to be just "speculation".

BTW- does it really jibe that the guy who has run this football operation for close to 20 years under the mantra of "I do what is best for the team" turn down the #4 pick for the #40 pick? No I don't think so either.

 

[HailHydra]

You make that statement as if the Cleveland offer was a proven FACT, NG, when the truth of it is the Cleveland brass has NEVER confirmed it.

There are dozens of "reports" that teams have offered this or that for a player, every year. For the most part they turn out to be just "speculation".

BTW- does it really jibe that the guy who has run this football operation for close to 20 years under the mantra of "I do what is best for the team" turn down the #4 pick for the #40 pick? No I don't think so either.

I doubt the Browns thing too. You would be freaking insane to turn down a pick that has 10x the value of the other.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

If Garoppolo's trade value from playing 2.5 games = 2nd round pick, then Brissett's value could've been at least a 4th?

You really think all of Jimmy's trade value comes from six quarters against Arizona and Miami and doesn't also include all the snaps in preseason that show how far ahead he was of Brissett in development?

 

[Oswlek]

Are you saying Cleveland didn’t offer a first round pick?

"A first round pick" =/ "the 2018 first round pick". Nor is it likely Cleveland would have gone winless if Jimmy had been their quarterback.

That's even granting a first was offered, which is not a certainty given how opaque the reporting has been.

On point number 2...then B.B. and kraft weren’t on the same page because kraft shipped jimmy g out and B.B. didn’t seem happy about it. So the miscommunication cost the patriots more compensation that they could have gotten

How do these factors have anything to do with an offer made in April of 2017? Wouldn't Kraft have been happy that Bill chose to trade Jimmy at that time? What miscommunication is even possible at that point?

The most likely scenario is that Bill recognized how good Jimmy is and decided the potential drop in value was worth the million-to-one odds that circumstance would allow JG to be retained. It was a calculated gamble that didn't work out, such is life.

 

[Froob]

You make that statement as if the Cleveland offer was a proven FACT, NG, when the truth of it is the Cleveland brass has NEVER confirmed it.

There are dozens of "reports" that teams have offered this or that for a player, every year. For the most part they turn out to be just "speculation".

BTW- does it really jibe that the guy who has run this football operation for close to 20 years under the mantra of "I do what is best for the team" turn down the #4 pick for the #40 pick? No I don't think so either.

Cleveland has a lot of recent history of revionist history to save face lol. I’m sure they tried to trade for Brady in the 2000 draft and Bill wouldn’t take all their first round picks . Wouldn’t be surprised if Bill took slightly less though.

Could be why we got Trent Brown so cheap later, that looks like such a dumb move for San Fran when their o line is hurting.

 

[patfanken]

On point number 2...then B.B. and kraft weren’t on the same page because kraft shipped jimmy g out and B.B. didn’t seem happy about it. So the miscommunication cost the patriots more compensation that they could have gotten

So basically you want us to believe that Bob Kraft was, at the time, making the personnel decisions for Patriots??? Do you know how LUDICROUS that sounds, NG?

Bob Kraft didn't trade JG, BB did and he did simply because he wanted to get SOME value for an asset rather than the nothing he would have gotten if he had waited until the end of the season.

In reality the ONLY question fans should have about the JG trade is if BB should have traded him before the draft, rather than in mid season. JG's value was much higher at that point. I know I was bitterly disappointed when the draft ended and JG was still with the team.

 

[Hyped]

Do you really believe that report?

Exactly.

No way do the Seahawks give up a 2nd for a BACK UP QB...especially when they have taken massive losses on defense and have a leaky OL.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Cleveland has a lot of recent history of revionist history to save face lol. I’m sure they tried to trade for Brady in the 2000 draft and Bill wouldn’t take all their first round picks . Wouldn’t be surprised if Bill took slightly less though.

Could be why we got Trent Brown so cheap later, that looks like such a dumb move for San Fran when their o line is hurting.

It reminds me of the 2014 draft. I knew all along that Aaron Donald was the best player and should be the #1 pick. I..uhh....I just forgot to say anything.....to anyone....at the time. But I knew all along!!

 

[HailHydra]

You really think all of Jimmy's trade value comes from six quarters against Arizona and Miami and doesn't also include all the snaps in preseason that show how far ahead he was of Brissett in development?

Last year during preseason, Brissett wasn't poor by any means. In the game he had significant snaps in, Brissett was 28/39 for 341 and 4 TDs 1 INT. Preseason is a layman's way to analyze a QBs development.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, yeah we all talk about the Garoppolo deal, but how did we lose so poorly on the Brissett deal? Based on reports of the Seahawks offering a 2nd rder for the kid, and the Colts turning it down, makes me think that trading Brissett for Phillip freaking Dorsett is one of the worst trades that we have ever done.

I reject the notion that "we" lost on the Brissett deal.

 

[Oswlek]

Exactly.

No way do the Seahawks give up a 2nd for a BACK UP QB...especially when they have taken massive losses on defense and have a leaky OL.

Especially when the backup only has two more years remaining on his contract. It's just a silly proposition.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Last year during preseason, Brissett wasn't poor by any means. In the game he had significant snaps in, Brissett was 28/39 for 341 and 4 TDs 1 INT. Preseason is a layman's way to analyze a QBs development.

But it's also that Garoppolo had 4 preseasons and 3.5 years in the NFL when he was traded. Brissett had just finished his 2nd preseason. Of course Jimmy had more trade value, and it's obvious he's much more developed.

I also think we're debating the trade as if the results are final. Yes, Dorsett might be a cut. But what if he becomes an important member of the team this year?

 

[maineman209]

I think we messed up giving up on this kid so soon, hope Dorsett makes it worth it but I’m not sure he even makes the roster. Brissett did well last year considering. Not sure he ever becomes a real good starter, but I think he’ll be in this league a decade from now still.

I don't know that it was "giving up" really. The Pats had just suddenly lost both Edelman and MM for the season. They needed a WR with some future potential who wouldn't cost a draft pick or break the cap.

I agree about Brissett likely being in the league for a long time, but I don't think we know yet how that trade balances out, and it might be awhile.

 

[mgteich]

Brissett is better than Hoyer.

not for our offense

To be more clear, I would rather have Hoyer and Dorsett than have Brissett.

 

[Ring 6]

Brissett is better than Hoyer.

That’s debatabke, Brissett was pretty awful last year
58.8% complete
30th in scoring offense
Less ham 200 passing yards per game
Indecisive to the point of taking 52 sacks.
23 offensive TDS in 15 games
Declining numbers as teams got tape (last 6 games:
97-175 (55.4% which is tebowesque)
926 yards (that’s the equivalent of 2469 over a full season for a starting qb which is awful)
4 TDS (equivalent of a full season total of <11)
5.29 yards per attempt
73 passer rating
14 points per game
Not sure how this is better than anyone.

but your full comment was

I doubt that he's a franchise QB. But is he better than Hoyer? Yes. Would we have trade bait on our team, so that WE could be the one's denying 2nd round picks for players that wouldn't start? 100% yes.

If the rumor from Volin (think about that for a minute) were true, and there are major issues with that, including Seattle doesn't have a 2 to offer, the reason would be because Brissett has a year of starting experience. If we hadn’t traded him he would have sat on the bench all season and that value wouldn’t be there

 

[ctpatsfan77]

"A first round pick" =/ "the 2018 first round pick". Nor is it likely Cleveland would have gone winless if Jimmy had been their quarterback.

That's even granting a first was offered, which is not a certainty given how opaque the reporting has been.

How do these factors have anything to do with an offer made in April of 2017? Wouldn't Kraft have been happy that Bill chose to trade Jimmy at that time? What miscommunication is even possible at that point?

The most likely scenario is that Bill recognized how good Jimmy is and decided the potential drop in value was worth the million-to-one odds that circumstance would allow JG to be retained. It was a calculated gamble that didn't work out, such is life.

And given that Garoppolo appears to have been TB12's personal fountain of youth, this was hardly the worst possible outcome.