Will our WRs make plays out of the slot? + Will Brady be able to adapt and master the vertical game?

[supafly]

So brady connecting on deep balls to cooks isn't chemistry? It only counts if the passes is thrown under 15 yards?

Look dude, they've played in exactly one game together and hit on 3/7 passes. What I'm saying isn't exactly earth shattering news. There was a time where Brady was noticeably frustrated with their timing smacking the top of his helmet and pointing, which has been pretty consistent over the years with signaling miscommunication with a receiver.

He hit him on one long bomb, so claiming that they connected on multiple deep balls simply isn't true. They missed on a sideline route, a back shoulder throw, another pass downfield, etc. They'll obviously be working out the kinks that any new receiver will have as the year goes on, and I can promise you that a lot more will be expected of Brandin Cooks than just running down the field for bombs.

I think you're focusing a lot more on what you disagree with than what you agree with, for some reason. Any moron can tell you that the chemistry wasn't there as much as it will need to be in their first game, and that they'll continuously be making improvements and adjustments as the year went on. That doesn't mean that we didn't have an exciting play downfield, that Cooks doesn't have obvious speed, or that the KC defender played him incorrectly at times, but this is a complex offense and much more will be expected of him as they improve upon their chemistry with more live game reps together.

 

[IllegalContact]

The only problem I see with Cooks being limited to running the routes he's been best at (up to this point) is that he'll become predictable to opponents.

The other thing is that the Saints did use Cooks out of the slot a bit, according to Payton, though not as frequently as the Pats used him Thursday, apparently.

Predictability was not an issue with the saints

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[BelichickFan]

With no context of who the receiving group was, that's not very relevant. We have a strong receiving group still. Need to make it work and stop crying about Edelman.

 

[IllegalContact]

So, your idea as to how to best utilize Cooks is to simply have him run go routes, where Brady can throw him long bombs?

Have you seen the way that other NFL receivers with speed have been deployed over the last, say, 30 years or so? Jerry Rice averaged 14.8 ypc. They didn't hit him with long bomb go routes all the time. They took advantage of his speed mismatches in all kinds of formations. That's what people here are talking about with Cooks. You saw some good examples of the sideline throw at the sticks, the back shoulder throw that Lloyd used to master, and the Mike Wallace-type crossing route that went for a nice gain. None of those were plays where Brandin Cooks got "behind the defenders."

That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be giving him a couple of deep shots every game, of course.

That's not what I said at all

There are plenty of routes as an X

Making him a slot WR is silly when you have a guy like hogan

 

[supafly]

That's not what I said at all

There are plenty of routes as an X

Making him a slot WR is silly when you have a guy like hogan

Well, I don't want to go around in circles with you if we have a difference of opinions, but I responded to a comment where you claimed that Cooks would be best used when "getting behind defenders." That's what I disagreed with.

To me, your comments appeared to suggest that he should mainly be targeted on longer downfield throws. I think you need to hit him on middle of the field crossers like we saw on Thursday, particularly with that speed where he can turn it on and gain significant YACs. Ultimately, I think they'd like him to do a little bit of everything. Back shoulder/comeback timing throws, outs turning near the sideline, crossing routes that are both shallow and intermediate, bubble screens, and obviously, a couple of longer downfield shots in just about every game. We saw most of that in game one, aside from the bubble screen.

The fact that he lined up in the slot on 20% of his reps suggests that Belichick and McDaniels agree on some level, however, I can fully appreciate the fact that you don't want to see him go over the middle too often.

 

[supafly]

This is exactly why it was terribly obvious to me that Amendola would be our main weapon in attempting to take up part/most of Edelman's reps. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why others didn't see it the same way, but I've been wrong so many times before that I simply chalked it up to likely losing my mind.

With no context of who the receiving group was, that's not very relevant. We have a strong receiving group still. Need to make it work and stop crying about Edelman.

That sounds great in theory, but you're well aware of how this offense has operated during Brady's time here. The fact that there have only been two games without a credible underneath man in the past 10 yrs pretty much says it all.

I'm sure they'll continue to attempt to adapt and adjust, but it isn't going to come easy, and it may not come for awhile.

How many times has the opposition taken away the underneath stuff limiting guys like Edelman and Amendola to little production, yet our offense continues to thrive? Not very often. It's basically the gameplan used to beat Brady. Flood the middle, make him hold onto the ball an extra 0.5 second and generate pressure. It changes the odds dramatically, especially with Mitchell sidelined. You saw what adding 0.2 seconds to his release time did the other night once Amendola went down. He failed on his last 9 attempts, going 0/6 with 3 sacks.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Losing Edelman is a knock out punch. Amendola isn't near him in elusiveness or quickness, guy has heart but can't touch 11. They're gonna have to adjust somehow, I figured there would be growing pains moving forward.

But Dola helps those scrappy routes that Jules would run..with both out...it is a vertical game for now

 

[Oswlek]

One of those games was Harper's Muff, and was a victory in every possible universe aside from the one those refs happened to be in that evening. It was also a team so beat to hell that Bolden, rookie White, LaFell, and Chandler were the top options after Gronk... who also left injured.

Not exactly useful precedent.

 

[Pats1989]

IF ( Hypothetical I know) Brady were to play awful in the next few games, leaving the Patriots at 1-2 or 0-3, would BB do the unthinkable and start Jimmy G? Again, it's hypothetical. I doubt it happens ( Pats being 0-3).

 

[Tony2046]

IDK ...

3.92 ss/6.62 3-cone = Edelman
4.11 ss/6.70 3-cone = Dorsett
3.81 ss/6.76 3-cone = Cooks
4.09 ss/7.09 3-cone = Welker

IIRC, Cooks wasn't completely limited in where he lined up with the Saints' offense, and he was capable of running a number of different route trees. While I don't at all think that Cooks will be THE guy to "replace" Edelman in the slot, I think he's likely to be a significant part of the "committee" that contributes there

Man I don't know. Cooks doesn't get the separation Edelman or Amendola does in short routes. Both Edelman and Amendola have a "juke the **** out of you" move to get separation and I haven't seen that from anyone else on the team.

I'm attempting to put up a video of all of Brady's throws during the KC game using the coaching film. We can discuss it more then hopefully. Putting the video together and putting it up on youtube has been quite the process.

 

[supafly]

IF ( Hypothetical I know) Brady were to play awful in the next few games, leaving the Patriots at 1-2 or 0-3, would BB do the unthinkable and start Jimmy G? Again, it's hypothetical. I doubt it happens ( Pats being 0-3).

No, unless the mistakes were believed to be falling on Brady's shoulders.

Belichick isn't a coach who overreacts, so it would depend on how the games were lost, but one would have to think that he'd continue to believe that Tom Brady gives the team the best at winning games, whether they're 3-0 or 0-3.

They've lost four in a row before AND Brady had a separated shoulder that year, and he wasn't pulled, and that was only in his second year, where pulling him could've easily been justified.

 

[supafly]

Man I don't know. Cooks doesn't get the separation Edelman or Amendola does in short routes. Both Edelman and Amendola have a "juke the **** out of you" move to get separation and I haven't seen that from anyone else on the team.

I'm attempting to put up a video of all of Brady's throws during the KC game using the coaching film. We can discuss it more then hopefully. Putting the video together and putting it up on youtube has been quite the process.

Your video breakdowns and overall contributions have been a huge positive to the forum since you joined a couple of years ago.

 

[supafly]

Man I don't know. Cooks doesn't get the separation Edelman or Amendola does in short routes. Both Edelman and Amendola have a "juke the **** out of you" move to get separation and I haven't seen that from anyone else on the team.

I'm attempting to put up a video of all of Brady's throws during the KC game using the coaching film. We can discuss it more then hopefully. Putting the video together and putting it up on youtube has been quite the process.

I think we may have to wait to see a larger sample size, particularly if Amendola is out, but I agree with some of what @maineman209 is saying in terms of wanting the guy that you traded a first round pick for to be able to run the entire route tree.

The biggest concerns of course, would be putting him in positions to get lit up, and feeling as though his talents may be used in a more effective manner. That said, they lined him up 1/5 snaps in the slot on Thursday, so I'm guessing they'll want to use him there in the future in some capacity. Hopefully, that will limit his exposure to getting big hits, although if Amendola may miss more than a game or two Belichick may not worry quite as much as we are.

 

[Tony2046]

Your video breakdowns and overall contributions have been a huge positive to the forum since you joined a couple of years ago.

Thanks. This one was tough. But I think if people watch the whole thing they'll feel a lot better about Brady and the team.

Personally I think you've nailed a few issues perfectly which can be seen in the video (hopefully it loads properly) including your angle on Dorsett's effectiveness.

 

[supafly]

Personally I think you've nailed a few issues perfectly which can be seen in the video (hopefully it loads properly) including your angle on Dorsett's effectiveness.

I think he's effectively a warm body , although I suppose that they can use him as a decoy in an attempt to help dictate coverage, as well as possibly helping him learn a handful of pre-planned plays.

 

[Tony2046]

I think we may have to wait to see a larger sample size, particularly if Amendola is out, but I agree with some of what @maineman209 is saying in terms of wanting the guy that you traded a first round pick for to be able to run the entire route tree.

The biggest concerns of course, would be putting him in positions to get lit up, and feeling as though his talents may be used in a more effective manner. That said, they lined him up 1/5 snaps in the slot on Thursday, so I'm guessing they'll want to use him there in the future in some capacity. Hopefully, that will limit his exposure to getting big hits, although if Amendola may miss more than a game or two Belichick may not worry quite as much as we are.

You're right it's just one game. Please note pass #4. I've numbered every pass attempt in the video. Amendola breaks a DB's ankles for a 16 yard gain. I have not see anyone else on the team do that on film except Edelman and maybe.....just maybe Mitchell. So yes Cooks can play from the slot but he used his speed to get open while Amendola used his quickness. One takes longer than the other.

Note: I should add Lewis to that list of capable ankle breakers..

 

[Bcc66duece]

You're right it's just one game. Please note pass #4. I've numbered every pass attempt in the video. Amendola breaks a DB's ankles for a 16 yard gain. I have not see anyone else on the team do that on film except Edelman and maybe.....just maybe Mitchell. So yes Cooks can play from the slot but he used his speed to get open while Amendola used his quickness. One takes longer than the other.

Note: I should add Lewis to that list of capable ankle breakers..

Where is this video at Tony? I'd like to watch it if it's publicly available.

 

[Tony2046]

Where is this video at Tony? I'd like to watch it if it's publicly available.

I was in the process of uploading it at the time of that post. I'm posting the thread tonight. It took about 2 hours to upload the video.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

to the OP: No. I have seen the posts and I have heard fans on the radio. Judging from that, there's one thing the Pats appear not to be, it's resilient, and if there's one thing Tom Brady can't do, it's adapt to new conditions.

I'm afraid, based on the intel mentioned, that the Patriots can only win one way, with exactly the starting lineup we planned on watching prior to the first pre-season game.

Okay reality check - teams DO lose games. The Pats ARE good at bouncing back, taking a season-long view. I don't think we're going to troll the Jets by beating them at tanking