Will our WRs make plays out of the slot? + Will Brady be able to adapt and master the vertical game?

[maineman209]

Predictability was not an issue with the saints

Because they had Cooks line up in different spots and run a lot of different routes. The Saints' passing game is probably every bit as complex as the Pats'.

Evolution of the Saints passing offense.

My point is that Cooks may be significantly better at "getting behind defenders" than most WRs and that maybe that's what he's "best at", but he can get behind defenders in a lot of different ways - both before and after the catch - and he's really, really good at a lot of different things. To reject exploiting all of his capabilities for fear that he'll get injured is what seems like a "waste of talent" to me.

 

[maineman209]

Man I don't know. Cooks doesn't get the separation Edelman or Amendola does in short routes. Both Edelman and Amendola have a "juke the **** out of you" move to get separation and I haven't seen that from anyone else on the team.

I'm attempting to put up a video of all of Brady's throws during the KC game using the coaching film. We can discuss it more then hopefully. Putting the video together and putting it up on youtube has been quite the process.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a WR with the kind of magical, "now you see me; now you don't" jump cut that Edelman has. It's otherworldly. Amendola maybe isn't quite as elite physically, but he's right up there. Both are superb at selling the fake with their body language.

I agree that we've not seen Cooks get that kind of separation on underneath routes - yet. The Saints used him in that role some of the time, but Payton has already commented that that Pats seem to be using him there a lot more. Which likely means he's been practicing those routes more than he has in the past. I have to think that the Pats like what they've seen from him in practice so far, at least a little, or they might not have used him that way quite as much against KC as they did (about 20% of his routes, according to Reiss).

Anyway, Cooks is just 23 and just starting his fourth NFL season. Although I certainly wouldn't expect him to get anywhere near the level of the 30-year-olds, even by the end of this season, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that he might improve some and even provide an occasional, "where the hell did THAT come from?!" moment later on.

Regardless, at the moment, it appears that the Pats are going to have to rely on Cooks to run some percentage of the "Edelman routes", and there are play calls that can help him get open, so his level of success there depends at least partly on McDaniels.

 

[DSting]

Forget the Brady is off talk, where was he supposed to throw it? KC played a lot of cover 1 with man press. Clogged the middle with tons of zone. There was no room for slot catches, it just wasn't there. The key was outside receivers beating the man coverage, and the just did not do that--most concerning. Cooks and Hogan could not gain separation, there was NO window for Brady to throw into. Very concerning, because Cooks was probably brought in to counter the cover 3 that's popping up everywhere, including Atlanta--everyone's copying Seattle. Conventional thinking is beat cover 3 with vertical routes in the zone seams. KCs press man was flat out locking down our receivers. Period.

 

[IllegalContact]

Well, I don't want to go around in circles with you if we have a difference of opinions, but I responded to a comment where you claimed that Cooks would be best used when "getting behind defenders." That's what I disagreed with.

To me, your comments appeared to suggest that he should mainly be targeted on longer downfield throws. I think you need to hit him on middle of the field crossers like we saw on Thursday, particularly with that speed where he can turn it on and gain significant YACs. Ultimately, I think they'd like him to do a little bit of everything. Back shoulder/comeback timing throws, outs turning near the sideline, crossing routes that are both shallow and intermediate, bubble screens, and obviously, a couple of longer downfield shots in just about every game. We saw most of that in game one, aside from the bubble screen.

The fact that he lined up in the slot on 20% of his reps suggests that Belichick and McDaniels agree on some level, however, I can fully appreciate the fact that you don't want to see him go over the middle too often.

my comments don't appear to suggest anything other than what they say........his top ability is to get behind the defenders (go, post, flag)

he is also very effective at hooks, out, and in

slants and quick outs are also ok, but hitches and 5 yard crossing patterns can be saved for others

 

[luuked]

Well BB kept TE:Jacob Hollister for a reason we should see all three TE's dressed. We need the TE's to take pressure off our now thin WR position. I see alot of Two TE's sets this keeps Hogan and Cooks in their proper outside positions. Also we would have a Single RB every time for a run or pass threat. That's the kind of Offense I see going forward until DA returns.

Hollister plays no role for this year's team and if there are no injuries he will stay inactive through most games.

 

[mgteich]

Forget the Brady is off talk, where was he supposed to throw it? KC played a lot of cover 1 with man press. Clogged the middle with tons of zone. There was no room for slot catches, it just wasn't there. The key was outside receivers beating the man coverage, and the just did not do that--most concerning. Cooks and Hogan could not gain separation, there was NO window for Brady to throw into. Very concerning, because Cooks was probably brought in to counter the cover 3 that's popping up everywhere, including Atlanta--everyone's copying Seattle. Conventional thinking is beat cover 3 with vertical routes in the zone seams. KCs press man was flat out locking down our receivers. Period.

Given that KC often had 8 in coverage, no points in the 4th quarter might lead analysts to conclude that we have a very poor set of running backs. Alternatively, one could conclude that the play calling was the issue.

I agree that it is unreasonable to blame the QB for not producing against 8 in coverage.

 

[maineman209]

Making him (Cooks) a slot WR is silly when you have a guy like hogan

If you mean making Cooks primarily a slot receiver, yeah I would think that was silly. But then, I'd say the same about making Hogan primarily a slot receiver.

I understand that some posters are suggesting that Cooks take over the majority of Edelman's snaps and routes. I'm not one of them. However, if Cooks proves capable of successfully sharing part of the load out of the slot and over the middle (along with Hogan, Amendola, Lewis, Burkhead, White, Allen - even Gronk on occasion perhaps), it seems silly to me not to do so.

 

[IllegalContact]

If you mean making Cooks primarily a slot receiver, yeah I would think that was silly. But then, I'd say the same about making Hogan primarily a slot receiver.

I understand that some posters are suggesting that Cooks take over the majority of Edelman's snaps and routes. I'm not one of them. However, if Cooks proves capable of successfully sharing part of the load out of the slot and over the middle (along with Hogan, Amendola, Lewis, Burkhead, White, Allen - even Gronk on occasion perhaps), it seems silly to me not to do so.

yes.......versatility is important

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[maineman209]

OMG! Belichick just gave away the Pats ultra-super-secret strategy for the passing attack!

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a WR with the kind of magical, "now you see me; now you don't" jump cut that Edelman has. It's otherworldly. Amendola maybe isn't quite as elite physically, but he's right up there. Both are superb at selling the fake with their body language.

I agree that we've not seen Cooks get that kind of separation on underneath routes - yet. The Saints used him in that role some of the time, but Payton has already commented that that Pats seem to be using him there a lot more. Which likely means he's been practicing those routes more than he has in the past. I have to think that the Pats like what they've seen from him in practice so far, at least a little, or they might not have used him that way quite as much against KC as they did (about 20% of his routes, according to Reiss).

Anyway, Cooks is just 23 and just starting his fourth NFL season. Although I certainly wouldn't expect him to get anywhere near the level of the 30-year-olds, even by the end of this season, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that he might improve some and even provide an occasional, "where the hell did THAT come from?!" moment later on.

Regardless, at the moment, it appears that the Pats are going to have to rely on Cooks to run some percentage of the "Edelman routes", and there are play calls that can help him get open, so his level of success there depends at least partly on McDaniels.

Not according to bb today 9-15

Q: What have you seen from Cooks working as a slot receiver?

BB: I think he's more of an outside receiver than an inside receiver, which is where we've played him.

 

[maineman209]

Not according to bb today 9-15

Q: What have you seen from Cooks working as a slot receiver?

BB: I think he's more of an outside receiver than an inside receiver, which is where we've played him.

This is the only BB quote on Cooks from today's presser that I've seen so far. Also, a least a couple different sources now have noted that Cooks played 20% of his snaps out of the slot against KC.

If you have a link to the transcript of the presser that disputes what Perry tweeted, I'd be happy to read it.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is the only BB quote on Cooks from today's presser that I've seen so far. Also, a least a couple different sources now have noted that Cooks played 20% of his snaps out of the slot against KC.

If you have a link to the transcript of the presser that disputes what Perry tweeted, I'd be happy to read it.

With Edelman gone, and Amendola on the shelf, this team doesn't have a slotWR. Just sticking an outside receiver into the slot position doesn't magically make the skillset of the receiver morph into the WWW/JE mold. Burkhead (and maybe Lewis, though he's probably too fragile to risk using him there full time) is better suited for the slotWR position than any of the currently available WRs.

They can take a slot by committee approach, but it's only going to give them some of what they've had in the past. It's not going to be a full replacement strategy. They just don't have the WR horses for that.

 

[mgteich]

It seems that you have suggested Burkhead as an option for full replacement. Obviously, others (Cooks, Hogan and Lewis) can play the slot in certain situations.

With Edelman gone, and Amendola on the shelf, this team doesn't have a slotWR. Just sticking an outside receiver into the slot position doesn't magically make the skillset of the receiver morph into the WWW/JE mold. Burkhead (and maybe Lewis, though he's probably too fragile to risk using him there full time) is better suited for the slotWR position than any of the currently available WRs.

They can take a slot by committee approach, but it's only going to give them some of what they've had in the past. It's not going to be a full replacement strategy. They just don't have the WR horses for that.

 

[Deus Irae]

It seems that you have suggested Burkhead as an option for full replacement. Obviously, others (Cooks, Hogan and Lewis) can play the slot in certain situations.

Huh? How do you get from

They can take a slot by committee approach, but it's only going to give them some of what they've had in the past. It's not going to be a full replacement strategy. They just don't have the WR horses for that.

to your post?

 

[stinkypete]

I don't think anyone thought Hogan would struggle the way he did. And Amendola did what he always does....get hurt. Amendola was the biggest disappointment for me. I have faith our D will turn it around but this passing attack is extremely concerning. Brady seems lost without Edelman/Amendola.

Hogan's struggles were not a surprise. He is not a slot receiver.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Also we're fortunate that there have been tougher Saints teams than this year's edition.

 

[maineman209]

With us worrying about how long Amendola may be out, debating which player is most likely to take the majority of snaps/targets lined up in the slot this season, and arguing over whether Cooks is a "slot receiver" or not, it'll be hilarious if it turns out that McD has the offense practicing a good, old-fashion, smashmouth, run-it-down-their-throats gameplan for tomorrow.

There is at least one precedent. The Pats laid a similar turdish performance in their 2014 opener against Miami as they did against KC last Thursday. Then, in week-2, they rode into Minny and ran the ball 37 times for 150 yards while passing only 21 times for 149 yards.

Futhermore ...

Last Monday, the Saints had difficulty stopping rookie RB Dalvin Cook (22/127), and most of those run plays didn't use a FB. The Pats have four RBs who appear to be able to run the ball well (plus Develin at FB), and three of those RBs are also threats to catch passes out of the backfield (or the slot).

Just sayin'.

 

[Uptown]

 

[jmt57]

Matt Chatham opines on utilizing running backs more, to replace some of the play calls that went to JE and DA.