Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

[manxman2601]

Again, this is how many years straight with an upper leg/hip injury? I don't need to be a doctor... that's all a lot of "injuries," within the same position relevant area. A db makes his living with his legs first. I'll take McCourty and an over extended vince first. If Talib settles for a team deal, which I doubt, (didn't he turn down the multi year deal, team friendly, for the prove it?) Then I would extend McCourty as well and hope to manage Vince next year or during the next season.

I don't see this happening. AT is a mouthy (Dont get me wrong, I love this about him) yet talented db. His injury history is far beyond worrisome. I don't think he holds up for more than two years. Hell, I don't think he comes back at the level he played these first few weeks. Recurring hip injury, not getting any younger, contract year (going to rush himself back for the $), it only gets worse.

I'm not saying you're wrong and ultimately I think it's unlikely that Talib gets re-signed. I can see a franchise year though. But in the end, I think BB sees better value in re-signing our younger draftees and putting Dennard and Ryan or draft pick as starting corners. There'll be some drop off, but the way Dennard is playing at the moment, maybe not too big a one.

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

I'm not saying you're wrong and ultimately I think it's unlikely that Talib gets re-signed. I can see a franchise year though. But in the end, I think BB sees better value in re-signing our younger draftees and putting Dennard and Ryan or draft pick as starting corners. There'll be some drop off, but the way Dennard is playing at the moment, maybe not too big a one.

Now we are also assuming Dennard stays out of jail... those Nebraska courts

 

[manxman2601]

Now we are also assuming Dennard stays out of jail... those Nebraska courts

That's alright. We'll just draft his cousin Darqueze (which isn't that bad a shout).

 

[patchick]

You're at 3.6 already, and you still have to fill the position. If Wilfork is healthy, you bring him back.

I don't think "if healthy" is enough of a qualifier in this case. It's unlikely to be an all-or-nothing issue...assuming he can play, how effective will he be? And when will you know the answer to that? Free agency begins in five months. I just can't imagine that they'll have a clear bead on Wilfork's expected strength and agility for the 2014-15 season by then.

So you have 3 choices:

A. Cross your fingers and stick with Wilfork's contract. If he's ready to be a quality starter again in September, great. If not, you've spent $11 million and you still have no starting DT.

B. Cut Wilfork, absorb the dead money, and have an extra $7.5 million to fill out your roster.

C. Try like made to renegotiate his contract, being prepared to cut him if he flat-out refuses.

You've said that it's pretty much crazy talk to consider anything but A. From where I sit, barring news that his injury was far less severe than has been reported, A looks tremendously risky. I'm betting on C, crazy or not.

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

That's alright. We'll just draft his cousin Darqueze (which isn't that bad a shout).

I'll have to look him up, what school I'd he attending?

 

[manxman2601]

I'll have to look him up, what school I'd he attending?

Michigan State. Looking like a potential 2nd or 3rd rounder right now. Very physical just like Alfonso.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't think "if healthy" is enough of a qualifier in this case. It's unlikely to be an all-or-nothing issue...assuming he can play, how effective will he be? And when will you know the answer to that? Free agency begins in five months. I just can't imagine that they'll have a clear bead on Wilfork's expected strength and agility for the 2014-15 season by then.

So you have 3 choices:

A. Cross your fingers and stick with Wilfork's contract. If he's ready to be a quality starter again in September, great. If not, you've spent $11 million and you still have no starting DT.

B. Cut Wilfork, absorb the dead money, and have an extra $7.5 million to fill out your roster.

C. Try like made to renegotiate his contract, being prepared to cut him if he flat-out refuses.

You've said that it's pretty much crazy talk to consider anything but A. From where I sit, barring news that his injury was far less severe than has been reported, A looks tremendously risky. I'm betting on C, crazy or not.

Unless they're desperate for that extra 7.5 mil for free agency, he'll make it to camp though won't he? I'm assuming his salary is pro-rated as the season progresses rather than guaranteed on a particular date.

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

Michigan State. Looking like a potential 2nd or 3rd rounder right now. Very physical just like Alfonso.

How tall? That would be 37's weakness to my eyes.

 

[Deus Irae]

...You've said that it's pretty much crazy talk to consider anything but A...

No, I didn't. I said that, if he's healthy, you bring him back. It's what you quoted. I never said that the Patriots shouldn't try to restructure his deal or anything of that nature. Your "take it or leave it" approach is ridiculous to me, but that's just one way to approach such a situation.

I'm aware of the risks involved when it comes to achilles injuries, and I've pointed out in other threads that not all players recover and return to playing. If all goes well, it's generally a 6-9 month recovery time, so the Patriots should have at least some inkling of how things are progressing by the time free agency rolls around.

 

[patchick]

Unless they're desperate for that extra 7.5 mil for free agency, he'll make it to camp though won't he? I'm assuming his salary is pro-rated as the season progresses rather than guaranteed on a particular date.

As a vested vet, wouldn't his whole salary be guaranteed by game 1 at the latest?

 

[manxman2601]

As a vested vet, wouldn't his whole salary be guaranteed by game 1 at the latest?

That's what I was hoping you'd clarify. Contracts are beyond my ken.

But if that's the case, why not keep him through camp and see what he still has to offer? Talib franchise money I suppose possibly.

 

[manxman2601]

How tall? That would be 37's weakness to my eyes.

5-11, 200 lbs approx.

Spartan Highlights - Darqueze Dennard (2010-2012) - YouTube

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

5-11, 200 lbs approx.

Spartan Highlights - Darqueze Dennard (2010-2012) - YouTube

Meh, I'd like someone at least 6'. Receivers keep looking more and more like power fowards. All joking asside, I'm mostly serious.

The only joking would be ignoring the (claimed by you if I remember correct) same physical style.

 

[manxman2601]

Meh, I'd like someone at least 6'. Receivers keep looking more and more like power fowards. All joking asside, I'm mostly serious.

The only joking would be ignoring the (claimed by you if I remember correct) same physical style.

6'0 is nice but they have to be able to defend the pass too - and they go high in the first round. That's one reason why it might be prudent to re-sign Talib. You don't find 6'0+ CBs with his skillset easily (otherwise everyone would have one). If you've got it, it might be dangerous to let it go.

I'm not sure about your final point. Are you saying he does have Alfonzo's physicality or doesn't?

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

6'0 is nice but they have to be able to defend the pass too - and they go high in the first round. That's one reason why it might be prudent to re-sign Talib. You don't find 6'0+ CBs with his skillset easily (otherwise everyone would have one). If you've got it, it might be dangerous to let it go.

I'm not sure about your final point. Are you saying he does have Alfonzo's physicality or doesn't?

I'm speaking of his brother (who I haven't watched). If he is physical, same quickness, take a shot, maybe in the second.

As far as Talib, I would heavily headge against injury with the current track record. A franchise if affordable, if it means either of wilfork/mccourty being extended, I pass.

 

[woolster22]

To elaborate, a stout physical corner can push a target off their route.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

I've got to go on age on this one. Talib is the younger of the two, and I would pay him. No offense to Big Vince, but he is getting up there in years.

 

[xlcjw72]

I don't think "if healthy" is enough of a qualifier in this case. It's unlikely to be an all-or-nothing issue...assuming he can play, how effective will he be? And when will you know the answer to that? Free agency begins in five months. I just can't imagine that they'll have a clear bead on Wilfork's expected strength and agility for the 2014-15 season by then.

So you have 3 choices:

A. Cross your fingers and stick with Wilfork's contract. If he's ready to be a quality starter again in September, great. If not, you've spent $11 million and you still have no starting DT.

Sets great princable with dealing with future big contracts, "Well we backloaded your contract and you had an injury so we arn't paying" its smart business sometimes to eat some money


B. Cut Wilfork, absorb the dead money, and have an extra $7.5 million to fill out your roster.

from a team who paid ocho cingo 6 million to suck and shaun ellis 4 million to be non exestent its not so smart

C. Try like made to renegotiate his contract, being prepared to cut him if he flat-out refuses. see A.

You've said that it's pretty much crazy talk to consider anything but A. From where I sit, barring news that his injury was far less severe than has been reported, A looks tremendously risky. I'm betting on C, crazy or not.

i love wilfork he is what i want every patriot to be

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Good thing i'm just a fan. I'm fine with an extension, I'm not fine with losing Wilfork.

Yeah...good thing you are just a fan.

Besides, in the future, Vince will not be playing 80-90 percent of snaps.

 

[reflexblue]

It depends on what VW wants as ar as money and length of contract. A.T. ha been playing out of his mind in a contract year, and he will most likely asking for top dollar (10+million a year) This is the First time i can remember Wilfork missing any time, while it seems to be a common occurrence with Talib. If i had to chose i'd pay Wilfork, hes a known consistent quantity that even after he gets payed plays hard every week. I haven't seen enough of Talib to say that.