Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

[voluntarysaftey]

Talib. Wilfork will be more likely to take a hometown discount when the time comes. He might even retire depending how he does next season.

I agree with this. Wilfork strikes me as the Bruschi / Troy Brown type -- money won't be an impediment to getting him signed. I think he'll just take whatever is offered --which will likely be less than his open market value; and his open market value will likely be less than top dollar cause of his age and now recent injury.

But I wouldn't pay Talib top dollar -- I'm not convinced that if he got top dollar, he'd remain the team player; it's tough to just ignore everything that happened in Tampa when considering a player for a huge contract

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

I agree with this. Wilfork strikes me as the Bruschi / Troy Brown type -- money won't be an impediment to getting him signed. I think he'll just take whatever is offered --which will likely be less than his open market value; and his open market value will likely be less than top dollar cause of his age and now recent injury.

But I wouldn't pay Talib top dollar -- I'm not convinced that if he got top dollar, he'd remain the team player; it's tough to just ignore everything that happened in Tampa when considering a player for a huge contract

Hip injury precedes behavior in Tampa to me.

 

[supafly]

Hip injury precedes behavior in Tampa to me.

I agree. I have about zero concerns about his ability to fall in line with the team concept at this point in time.

The fact that he's in his 6th year and has had constant battles with both hip and hamstring issues is much, much more concerning in my opinion.

 

[supafly]

I'm still not sure why we have to decide between Talib and Wilfork to begin with? Wilfork is not even a free agent until Feb. 2015. The decision to sign Talib or not won't have much, if anything, to do with Vince Wilfork.

There are any number of players who are free agents between now and the next 16-17 months in 2015, so this attempt at a comparison could be made with about 10-12 different players.

I would think a McCourty/Talib comparison would be more appropriate myself, and even then there's no reason why they can't keep both eventually.

 

[DocHoliday]

This hip injury might be the perfect thing to knock some luster off him and allow the Pats to negotiate a slightly under market contract.

That said, I do have concerns about his personality and behavior. I hate to stereotype, but anyone who has heard him talk can easily attest the guy sounds like trouble.

 

[kennyb]

They don't have to make a decision for many months so they'll have time to see how his recovery is going. Would not be surprising if a busted Achilles is a career ender for a 400 pounder. And he's closer to 400 pounds than 350. He has gained jumbo pounds since coming into the league.

 

[rblee83]

While they don't have to make a decision for many months, I think they could save some money by getting Talib signed to an extension during the season. It could be the difference between him staying or leaving...

 

[BradyFTW!]

Cutting Wilfork results in a $3.6m cap hit and a huge hole at DT. If Wilfork's healthy, you bring him back.


Frankly, if it weren't for the asininity of all the "get rid of Welker" people, I'd think this thread was just crazy people talking.

So what? They're paying the $3.6M either way, it's a sunk cost. It's utterly meaningless in the evaluation of whether to cut or keep Wilfork. All that matters in this evaluation is the savings if he's cut. It's $3.6 to cut him or $11.6 to keep him, so the Pats save $8M against the cap if they cut him.

Knowing that, first you have to ask the following: will Wilfork's production be worth $8M against the cap next year, at 33 years old and coming off of a ruptured achilles?

Second, and more importantly, you have to ask where else the Pats could potentially allocate that money. If it's the difference between paying Talib and letting him walk, for instance, that will obviously be a real decision that requires a lot of consideration.

Not sure what part of that seems so ridiculous to you.

 

[Deus Irae]

So what? They're paying the $3.6M either way, it's a sunk cost. It's utterly meaningless in the evaluation of whether to cut or keep Wilfork. All that matters in this evaluation is the savings if he's cut. It's $3.6 to cut him or $11.6 to keep him, so the Pats save $8M against the cap if they cut him.

Knowing that, first you have to ask the following: will Wilfork's production be worth $8M against the cap next year, at 33 years old and coming off of a ruptured achilles?

You're at 3.6 already, and you still have to fill the position. If Wilfork is healthy, you bring him back.

Second, and more importantly, you have to ask where else the Pats could potentially allocate that money. If it's the difference between paying Talib and letting him walk, for instance, that will obviously be a real decision that requires a lot of consideration.

Not sure what part of that seems so ridiculous to you.

Given that I already noted the "if healthy" aspect, making that a non-issue in terms of any disagreement .... every single bit of it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Talk about "what have you done for me lately" fans. Wilfork is a legend and WILL retire a Patriot.

People said the same thing about Vrabel, McGinest, Seymour, Law, Welker and Moss too. The bottom line is that if his performance doesn't measure up to what they stand to save by cutting him, he will be asked to restructure and cut if he doesn't. And with that figure being $8M next year, it's an interesting proposition. Far from a guarantee, given the nature of his injury.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Franchise tag him next year...see if he can do it again

 

[manxman2601]

Wilfork has dominated the interior line for his entire career, how does a 5 week span trump that?

I don't believe I ever said it did. Just acknowledging the reality that Talib is beasting it right now.

 

[PATRlOT]

Wouldn't the better question be Talib or Edelman?

I'd hate to see either leave

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Wouldn't the better question be Talib or Edelman?

No becasue that's an easy decision if it's only between these two

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

Wouldn't the better question be Talib or Edelman?

I'd hate to see either leave

Not close. In preseason, I was wondering if my man edes would stick around. Kr/pr competition, plus a ton of bodies at WR made me wonder, but he is still here, and it is for a reason.

If it comes down to money, let talib walk. How is Revis Island fairing this year?

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

I don't believe I ever said it did. Just acknowledging the reality that Talib is beasting it right now.

And again a hip injury. You really want to lock him up long term?

 

[manxman2601]

And again a hip injury. You really want to lock him up long term?

I'm not a doctor so I can't say how serious an issue it is long-term. Obviously if it's likely to be a serious issue, then no. But you, nor I have the qualifications or access to make that determination.

 

[jsull87]

You do if you think Dennard + Ryan (or another) can fulfill close too as good a role. 10m+ is a lot to pay out if you think the gain is only marginal. Note, I'm not saying that's how the Pats feel, just that if they do, it's unlikely they'd pay out that money.

That's the right way of looking at things. The issue for us is, what Talib did to Jimmy Graham yesterday was terrific and there would maybe be 2-3 guys in the league capable of one on one doing that especially in the form he has been in.

I love VW and there hasn't been a better more consistent player on our D over the past 4 years (arguably Mayo). But if i had to choose it would probably be Talib even taking health into consideration because both are injured atm.

The other thing to take into account is the poor drafting of DB's and our history of good drafting of DL players high in the Bb era. Ron Brace aside.

 

[jsull87]

Franchise tag him next year...see if he can do it again

Exactly what i would do. That gives you time to sort out extensions for Mankins, McCourty, Solder e.t.c

 

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

I'm not a doctor so I can't say how serious an issue it is long-term. Obviously if it's likely to be a serious issue, then no. But you, nor I have the qualifications or access to make that determination.

Again, this is how many years straight with an upper leg/hip injury? I don't need to be a doctor... that's all a lot of "injuries," within the same position relevant area. A db makes his living with his legs first. I'll take McCourty and an over extended vince first. If Talib settles for a team deal, which I doubt, (didn't he turn down the multi year deal, team friendly, for the prove it?) Then I would extend McCourty as well and hope to manage Vince next year or during the next season.

I don't see this happening. AT is a mouthy (Dont get me wrong, I love this about him) yet talented db. His injury history is far beyond worrisome. I don't think he holds up for more than two years. Hell, I don't think he comes back at the level he played these first few weeks. Recurring hip injury, not getting any younger, contract year (going to rush himself back for the $), it only gets worse.