Wilfork or Talib...who do you pay after the season?

[ausbacker]

This is the key to me. Wilfork has been invaluable both on and off the field, but this is a TOUGH injury. At his age and size, you just can't assume he'll be able to come back to the same level of play.

Back in the mid 90's I was doing a track session and heard a beach sprinter blow out his achilles whilst accelerating from a 3 point start. He was a big guy for a runner (perhaps 6'2, 230ish). The sound that made was something I'll have a hard time forgetting. Unfortunately for Mark, he never returned to sprinting. That's the unfortunate reservation I have for Wilfork. I must make the disclaimer that my commentary is without knowing the severity of Wilfork's injury and subsequent surgery.

Given the above commentary, Wilfork is a trooper and has proven time and time again that he has the heart and determination to make a full recovery. I for one am hopeful that he does but am preparing for life after Wilfork if that unfortunate reality comes to fruition.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Wes Welker all over again. The player who plays like a HOFer for the Patriots gets thrown under the bus and the shiny new toy gets all the polish.

This debate is really going to suck.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Back in the mid 90's I was doing a track session and heard a beach sprinter blow out his achilles whilst accelerating from a 3 point start. He was a big guy for a runner (perhaps 6'2, 230ish). The sound that made was something I'll have a hard time forgetting. Unfortunately for Mark, he never returned to sprinting. That's the unfortunate reservation I have for Wilfork. I must make the disclaimer that my commentary is without knowing the severity of Wilfork's injury and subsequent surgery.

Given the above commentary, Wilfork is a trooper and has proven time and time again that he has the heart and determination to make a full recovery. I for one am hopeful that he does but am preparing for life after Wilfork if that unfortunate reality comes to fruition.

I agree that the injury is a real concern, but also agree with the rest of your comments, and unfortunately (For Wilfork's negotiating stance) I think this is really going to make it much easier for him to remain with the team for the rest of his career, because most teams will be scared off of giving him any long term deal given that injury and his body type. Wilfork is and always will be much more valuable to the Patriots than to other teams and I think they will be able to get future deals done with him to retire a Patriot, and I don't believe it will impact the TaliB negotiations at all. I do think the better question is going to be McCourty/Talib, as I doubt the pay both big money, even though i am obviously hoping they find a way to do so.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Hard for ankles to support that 400 pound body. Long recovery and he may end up retiring. Has a family history of diabetes and an eight figure bank account.

Wilfork is about 6'1 340, he's not even close to 400 lbs. just another meme the haters like to use to try to support their weak assed arguments/.

 

[Big-T]

Wes Welker all over again. The player who plays like a HOFer for the Patriots gets thrown under the bus and the shiny new toy gets all the polish.

This debate is really going to suck.

There's no room for sentiment when it comes to FO decisions.

Unless you think Vince Wilfork - at his age, coming off such an injury is really worth an $11.5m cap hit? He will need to sign an extension to cut that number down in all likelihood.

 

[manxman2601]

Wes Welker all over again. The player who plays like a HOFer for the Patriots gets thrown under the bus and the shiny new toy gets all the polish.

This debate is really going to suck.

If my shiny new toy shuts down Vincent Jackson, Julio Jones, AJ Green and Jimmy Graham in consecutive weeks, then I want it to be Christmas every day.

 

[Huckleberry1]

There's no room for sentiment when it comes to FO decisions.

Unless you think Vince Wilfork - at his age, coming off such an injury is really worth an $11.5m cap hit? He will need to sign an extension to cut that number down in all likelihood.

Good thing i'm just a fan. I'm fine with an extension, I'm not fine with losing Wilfork.

 

[BradyFTW!]

He has a huge cap hit and a $7.5 million base salary. Wilfork could be gone if he doesn't take a pay cut either outright or through an extension.

I'm going to go a step further and say that I expect exactly this to happen. The Pats aren't going to take that cap hit for a mid-30s NT recovering from a torn achilles. If he doesn't renegotiate, he'll be gone.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wilfork is about 6'1 340, he's not even close to 400 lbs. just another meme the haters like to use to try to support their weak assed arguments/.

What's weak about being skeptical that a 330+ pound player (he entered the league at 325, and the eyeball test says he's gained at least 25 pounds since then) can recover from a torn achilles to the point that he justifies an $11.5M cap hit?

Look, Wilfork is one of my all-time favorite Patriots. I love the guy, about as far from a hater as you can get. But that's a big cap hit for a guy with as many question marks as he's going to have entering next year. I'd hate to see him go, but look at the opportunity cost of keeping him at that hit.

I'm pretty optimistic that Wilfork will agree to a below-market deal that pays him less in 2014 but keeps him around through 2016 or so, with some guaranteed money to protect him against his body breaking down and give him some incentive to sign the deal. Makes sense for both sides, keeps him around, and hopefully allows the Pats to transition him into a smaller role over time that keeps him fresher and eases the long-term wear and tear on his body.

 

[Deus Irae]

Cutting Wilfork results in a $3.6m cap hit and a huge hole at DT. If Wilfork's healthy, you bring him back.


Frankly, if it weren't for the asininity of all the "get rid of Welker" people, I'd think this thread was just crazy people talking.

 

[Huckleberry1]

If my shiny new toy shuts down Vincent Jackson, Julio Jones, AJ Green and Jimmy Graham in consecutive weeks, then I want it to be Christmas every day.

Wilfork has dominated the interior line for his entire career, how does a 5 week span trump that?

 

[patchick]

I do think the better question is going to be McCourty/Talib, as I doubt the pay both big money, even though i am obviously hoping they find a way to do so.

Yep, for the first time since the Ty Law days, we can really call the secondary a strength of this team. It would be a huge shame to see that era end too soon.

My $.02 is they'll try to keep Talib if they can manage it, but Devin McCourty will get a long-term deal, period. He is exactly the kind of player Belichick invests in: top-flight physical AND MENTAL skills at a position with a lot of leadership responsibility. AKA the Mayo of the secondary.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Yep, for the first time since the Ty Law days, we can really call the secondary a strength of this team. It would be a huge shame to see that era end too soon.

My $.02 is they'll try to keep Talib if they can manage it, but Devin McCourty will get a long-term deal, period. He is exactly the kind of player Belichick invests in: top-flight physical AND MENTAL skills at a position with a lot of leadership responsibility. AKA the Mayo of the secondary.

Agree, I think Beichick loves McCourty and he is exactly the kind of player that they get deals done with. Talib is a different character and i am really wondering where his head is going to be on this. My basic sense is that he wants the big payday and he wants to be known as THE SHUTDOWN CORNER, and given how he has played this season I can understand that, he's playing the best DB I have seen in NE since Ty Law, and this past month was really as good a stretch as i ever saw Law play, if not better. If Talib loves playing for the Patriots then i can see him taking 30 for 5, but if he thinks he can get 50-60 then he is gone. I didn't think they would tag him but now i am starting to wonder, as they paid Welker almost 10 million for a season and Talib is showing he could be worth it on a 1 year deal.

 

[xlcjw72]

How about that shiny new toy with hip issues and character issues? i love talib but i havnt seen him ball on a non contract year. you guys act like wilfork is some replaceable guy. he is still being a leader off the field.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Talib is 27, Wilfork will be 32 in a couple weeks. Wilfork's next contract will be smaller just based on age.

 

[Ring 6]

Wes Welker all over again. The player who plays like a HOFer for the Patriots gets thrown under the bus and the shiny new toy gets all the polish.

This debate is really going to suck.

It simply is not good business in the NFL to pay for tribute to what they did in the past. I just don't believe the next contract is based on what you did on the last one, but what you will do on the next. When age and wear and tear hit, you can't just pay for what they used to be.

 

[woolster22]

I love watching Talib shut down all these big names. And he goes farther than that, getting in their ears and taking them out of the game not only physically, but mentally as well.

As much as I love watching this week to week, how many years in a row has the hip been an issue? That's nothing to shrug at considering he plays, arguably, one of the most athletically demanding positions in the nfl. This isn't a bumb shoulder, this affects everything that his legs do. Hell, depending on the injury it can affect the lower back as well.

Last year he landed on it. This year...simply chasing a TE, leaning on him by the end of the play. No major contact, and I'd have to watch it again, but I don't remember any extreme planting/cutting (atleast by nfl standards). I want nothing to do with this tenancy long term. 2-3 year deal with team protection, maybe.

In relation to Vince? He isn't the question. McCourty is. When Talib went out, who lined up with Graham almost exclusively? Who has been a major factor since lining up at safety?

This kid had slowly turned into a leader of the defensive secondary. He had also been relatively durable (for a position known for seasonal attrition), and seems to be doing all the right things off the field.

Vince deserves an extension, assuming he even wants to pursue one (family history, tough injury which is compounded by his stature). Given what little I can extract from what has been written and from his personal statements, I would assume that he would be very open to a Brady-esque extension. He has made a very significant sun of money over his career and seems to enjoy being in New England.

Given a choice of two of the three, Talib walks. Every time.

 

[CelticPatriot]

Talib. Wilfork will be more likely to take a hometown discount when the time comes. He might even retire depending how he does next season.

 

[Mark12]

Talk about "what have you done for me lately" fans. Wilfork is a legend and WILL retire a Patriot.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It simply is not good business in the NFL to pay for tribute to what they did in the past. I just don't believe the next contract is based on what you did on the last one, but what you will do on the next. When age and wear and tear hit, you can't just pay for what they used to be.

I think Wilfork's next deal is going to be easy for NE to afford, Talib is the question mark. As for what Wilfork "used to be," he has never dropped off that I was aware of, so saying he is diminished is based only upon his injury. If they can reduce their cap hit and extend him i am all for it, but other than that i say that they should let him play next year and try to get a new deal done during it. I don't think the Talib contract is related to it, but a McCourty deal might be.