Why do people say Mac Jones has a weak arm?

[RobertWeathers]

 

[sb1]

People always get bent out of shape.

Weak compared to some random guy that has never played football? Hell no

Weak compared to Mahomes who can flip his wrist and the ball flies 60 yards on a dime? Kind of. Ave is a better way of putting it.

Great arm strength as compared to Ave arm strength in the NFL is not a big deal.

Mac's arm is strong enough to be great. He reminds me a lot of Drew Brees who also had Ave arm strength.

I think it depends on the system. Gotta have a very strong arm to run the offense that we had with Brady, and he definitely did have that.

Cam’s arm strength was sapped by all the injuries he’s had and when he tried to run that offense he was a disaster. Even BB reportedly thought that Cam’s arm strength was a problem.

Mac wouldn’t have been our pick at 15 if Bill felt his arm strength was an albatross around his career.

 

[Fuzz]

Jones is blessd with great footwork, whether he is climbing the pocket or just stepping into his throws he can snap those hips and push that ball downfield if he wants to. That being said, a lot of the wow factor of Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance etc, they don't need to do any of that stuff. They can be standing still, shoulders square, backing up, whaterver and with a flick of the wrist the ball is gone. Its ridiculous how easy these guys make it look.

But I am fine with who Mac Jones is. He is accurate, decisive, can throw a very catchable deep ball (Alabama) and gets the ball out super quick after its snapped. Would I like to see him throw one of those under pressure "on a rope" passes off his backfoot to the sideline. Sure that would be fun, but why penalize him for his great footwork

There’s a downside to that talent too. I think we’re seeing it now with Mahomes where his mechanics have completely broken down. I have no doubt he’ll get it back, but i think it will be an issue on and off throughout his career.

A similarity I noticed between Brady and Mac is that they seem to value consistency above all else. They basically want to become robots on the field. I think the fact that they are forced to rely on their mechanics help them stick to it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Theres an unofficial combine metric called "Ball Velocity" that is the closest thing we have to empirical evidence in this area. Unfortunately, there was no combine in 2021, so we don't have the numbers for Mac. Based on the eye test alone, he definitely seems to throw it slower than average for the NFL level.
That doesn't necessarily mean he has a weak arm though.

Watson was a complete bust on ball velocity at the combine - one of the lowest measurements recorded:

Ball Velocity Is Bunk - Inside The Pylon

Dave Archibald breaks down why ball velocity measurements for quarterbacks at the NFL Combine aren't a helpful predictor of NFL success.

insidethepylon.com

I mentioned this before when it was brought up but you can't rely on the combine for this bc QB's aren't trying to throw it as hard as they can. No one is lining them for a drill or w/e. I'd probably decline if I was a QB even if I was specifically asked. If you're not paying me I'm not trying to throw the ball through a brick wall.

 

[gobesmug]

I think it depends on the system. Gotta have a very strong arm to run the offense that we had with Brady, and he definitely did have that.

Cam’s arm strength was sapped by all the injuries he’s had and when he tried to run that offense he was a disaster. Even BB reportedly thought that Cam’s arm strength was a problem.

Mac wouldn’t have been our pick at 15 if Bill felt his arm strength was an albatross around his career.

No coach worth their contract will ever force a QB into their perceived "system". Good coaches always tweak their offense to match the QB.

Look at what John Harbaugh did with going from Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson?

Or Sean Payton to Drew Brees, to Winston.

Belichick changed it from Jimmy G to start the season Brady was suspended, then changed it for the 1 game he knew Brisset was starting, to getting screwed by Jimmy G deciding on GameDay that he didn't want to play then to Brady taking back over.

So no, I don't think the difference in arm strength is an issue because route designs and play calling will always be tweaked to take advantage of what your QB does best.

The offense we are using right now would be drastically different if we traded for Deshaun Watson

 

[RobertWeathers]

There’s a downside to that talent too. I think we’re seeing it now with Mahomes where his mechanics have completely broken down. I have no doubt he’ll get it back, but i think it will be an issue on and off throughout his career.

A similarity I noticed between Brady and Mac is that they seem to value consistency above all else. They basically want to become robots on the field. I think the fact that they are forced to rely on their mechanics help them stick to it.

Yea i'm starting to see some Brett Favre 2.0 in Mahomes.

 

[Rob0729]

The discussion was arm strength, not arm accuracy.

Because many QBs with weaker arm strength can throw it just as far as ones with stronger arms but they sacrifice accuracy while doing it. When QBs lose arm strength you can see them still throw the ball just as far as they used to. What happens is that their passes start to get a yard or two more off target than they used to be.

But who cares? The NFL QB competition was the equivalent of a bunch of guy getting together to play a round of golf and the winner getting $50. Half the guys there are just there to hang out and have fun and aren't even competing. Look who won the NFL QB Competition in the early 2000s - Josh McCown won in 2007, Chris Simms won in 2006, Jake Delhomme won in 2005, Trent Dilfer in 2001, and Jake Plummer in 2000 (he won in 1999 too). None of these were even close to the most talented QBs in the league. That how seriously the QBs took the competition. It was fan competition to watch, but you knew half the guys weren't trying that hard.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because many QBs with weaker arm strength can throw it just as far as ones with stronger arms but they sacrifice accuracy while doing it. When QBs lose arm strength you can see them still throw the ball just as far as they used to. What happens is that their passes start to get a yard or two more off target than they used to be.

But who cares? The NFL QB competition was the equivalent of a bunch of guy getting together to play a round of golf and the winner getting $50. Half the guys there are just there to hang out and have fun and aren't even competing. Look who won the NFL QB Competition in the early 2000s - Josh McCown won in 2007, Chris Simms won in 2006, Jake Delhomme won in 2005, Trent Dilfer in 2001, and Jake Plummer in 2000 (he won in 1999 too). None of these were even close to the most talented QBs in the league. That how seriously the QBs took the competition. It was fan competition to watch, but you knew half the guys weren't trying that hard.

You made a false claim about arm strength, comparing Jones to early Brady. The rest has followed from there. So you were the one who cared.

Just let it drop.

 

[bormio]

He can throw a ball with hyper accuracy and that is far more important than arm strength. He throws into tight windows, he threw a 75 yarder to Bourne... his arm is plenty strong. Very rarely does a QB need to throw it more than 30-40 yards in the air.

Draftniks needed a reason to knock Mac down a peg in pre-draft, he had a doughy body, he didn't run super fast, there was a large class of QB prospects coming out and many were athletic specimens; taller, heavier, faster etc.

The reality is Mac put up the greatest single season of passing in college history and many "talent evaluators" ignored it at their own peril. Now those same guys are on TV (or here) saying Mac has a weak arm but he's really smart... they're covering up for the fact they completely screwed up the evaluation.

Every year it's the same thing, running QB's are the future, they're going to revolutionize something... garbage. Before the advent of the forward pass, running "backs" was all there was. It's not new, it's retro. Passing is the job, it's one-two-three on the list of importance after protecting the football. Kyler Murray can run faster than any QB in the league, he beats you with his arm. The greatest QB in history was among the worst athletes in the league while he played, kind of tells you the importance of running. QB's need to have it between the ears, have good motor control... running, athleticism... that's just gravy.

Analysts never admit they were wrong. They just spew more and more inane analysis

 

[Joker]

I heard Mac has a weak back too...how long has he had this weak back?

Oh...about a week back...nyuk nyuk nyuk

 

[BigPeteG]

I mentioned this before when it was brought up but you can't rely on the combine for this bc QB's aren't trying to throw it as hard as they can. No one is lining them for a drill or w/e. I'd probably decline if I was a QB even if I was specifically asked. If you're not paying me I'm not trying to throw the ball through a brick wall.

I dunno. It passes the sniff test - Josh Allen is the highest rated at the combine and has what I think is the biggest arm.

Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2020 (ourlads.com)

Okay sure - I know what you are thinking maybe guys aren't really trying. But when they do try those are the kind of numbers they produce that is in the normal range of throws..

Check out Mahommes trying to throw it fast..

How Fast Does Patrick Mahomes Throw A Ball?! | NFL Total Access | NFL Highlights HD - YouTube

Ryan Mallet has a huge arm - maybe he wasn't the most accurate but he could throw it pretty far.. And again combine numbers seem to reflect that..

It's too bad Mac wasn't at the combine because as with his run speed - I think his arm would be better then people think.. I'd wager that Mac Jones arm would be as scouted - NFL average so like 56 in velocity... I think they do track this with the advanced stats - so would be very curious to know what his fastest pass was this year..

Another guy who claimed Mac Jones has a weak arm is Rex Ryan.. He called it a pea shooter. The scouts didn't claim that though - just said it was not elite. AKA among NFL QBs it would be average. If you really want to think about this you have to ask among NFL starters who has a weaker arm?

Tua? Garrapollo? Tannehill? Darnold? When you think of it like that - its pretty likely his arm is NFL average. Not that this dooms him or anything but if OP really wants to know where this idea comes from - it comes from scouts and rex ryan.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I am glad Mac didn't go to the Combine.

I am glad Mac fell to #15.

I am glad people think Mac has a weak arm and a low ceiling.

The perfect plan is all coming together.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

They don't say he has a weak arm just that's it not as strong as the other QB's taken ahead of him. His arm strength is just fine though. Rex Ryan's opinion doesn't count, he's a foot fetish moron.

 

[bormio]

They don't say he has a weak arm just that's it not as strong as the other QB's taken ahead of him. His arm strength is just fine though. Rex Ryan's opinion doesn't count, he's a foot fetish moron.

Rex Ryan says lots of things. Very few are true

 

[JarOfMayo51]

He can throw a ball with hyper accuracy and that is far more important than arm strength. He throws into tight windows, he threw a 75 yarder to Bourne... his arm is plenty strong. Very rarely does a QB need to throw it more than 30-40 yards in the air.

Draftniks needed a reason to knock Mac down a peg in pre-draft, he had a doughy body, he didn't run super fast, there was a large class of QB prospects coming out and many were athletic specimens; taller, heavier, faster etc.

The reality is Mac put up the greatest single season of passing in college history and many "talent evaluators" ignored it at their own peril. Now those same guys are on TV (or here) saying Mac has a weak arm but he's really smart... they're covering up for the fact they completely screwed up the evaluation.

Every year it's the same thing, running QB's are the future, they're going to revolutionize something... garbage. Before the advent of the forward pass, running "backs" was all there was. It's not new, it's retro. Passing is the job, it's one-two-three on the list of importance after protecting the football. Kyler Murray can run faster than any QB in the league, he beats you with his arm. The greatest QB in history was among the worst athletes in the league while he played, kind of tells you the importance of running. QB's need to have it between the ears, have good motor control... running, athleticism... that's just gravy.

great post!

I fell victim to it, pre-draft I was in love with Justin Fields and just orgasmed over the idea of having a QB that could also turn into a RB/WR on the field. Was upset when the Bears jumped the Pats and drafted him, but ever since I dove into the Mac Jones pool, I've grown to love him more and more every single day

In so many of the mock drafts, Mac Jones was going in round 2 pretty consistently.. I remember doing some mocks getting him in 1st round and was consistently considered a reach. Pretty amazing that in reality, he falls to us at 15 and has all the makings of a legit, franchise QB.. he just doesn't have the pizazz or flair of those other types of QBs, but he's definitely got the skillz to pay the billz! (so sorry for saying that!)

 

[BigPeteG]

Rex Ryan says lots of things. Very few are true

Sure. No one says it is true. But if OP is wonder where that negatives about Mac are coming from.. Scouting reports down on his arm strength and athleticism - as well as Rex Ryan. Ryan no doubt exaggerating the scouting report to make some noise for himself..

Niners should have stuck to their guns and taken Mac - so I am happy about the whole scenario. But just keep in mind there are tons of haters out there who are going to attack whoever the Patriots pick. They can't deal with another era of domination..

 

[Wordsmyth]

Rex Ryan says lots of things. Very few are true

If you give him a FOOT, he'll take a mile!

 

[Kasmir]

Rex Ryan disses Mac for the same reason that many of the Brady Bunch here do: fear that Mac might rehabilitate BB's reputation vs Brady. In Rex's case, he has loudly said that only because of Brady is Belichick thought to be a better coach than Rex Ryan. So he roots against Mac out of fear.

 

[upstater1]

The book on Jones was that he doesn't run that well and he doesn't have a huge arm. He is more brains then brawn so to speak.

"Jones might top out in the NFL as a backup quarterback. He has a quality arm, but does not elite arm strength and is not a running threat for the next level. Jones has ability in terms of moving his feet in the pocket, so he is not a statue, but he will not be a dual-threat quarterback in the pros.

While Jones does not exceptional arm strength or playmaking ability with his feet, he is an accurate passer. He places his ball well, putting it in position for his receiver to make the catch while avoiding putting the pass in danger of being intercepted. Jones is a smart decision maker who protects the ball well and doesn't get careless or panic. He also demonstrated anticipation to help throw receivers open in 2020."

(From WalterFootball.com)

I am going to say it - book was pretty accurate in some ways.. I don't think his arm is like Josh Allen or Rodgers. He is just not as big or strong as those guys - so why would he throw a better ball? Generally big strong guys can throw the ball faster and farther..

What Mac has going for him is that BB and company look for what he has - and do not need a guy with elite arm talent. They want someone accurate who can make good decisions. They want someone tough - mentally.. They want someone dedicated to the team..

I think they have all that in Mac - and that's why on the Pats he can be a starter. FWIW all the "bad" comparisons people like to make - guys like Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins - they would have had a very different career in the Patriots system. Circumstances matter a lot in the NFL. If BB was the coach of the 49ers - Alex Smith would have won that super bowl - IMHO..

It's the same with Jones running speed. He is not a slug like old man Ben. But he isn't putting the fear of god into defenses with his legs. His mobility is normal for an NFL QB. Fields as he was scouted is way more mobile. Guy looks a little like Lamar out there. Scouts as it turns out are not clueless.. Some teams just put different values on different aspects of a player..

I'll say it again though: sports science once did a special about how some QBs that showed super strong arms in practice/challenges did not show those same arms in games. Sports Science did a special which showed Brady throws the ball with more zip (velocity) than any other QB, and I maintain that was so because of Brady's mechanics and accuracy.

If you're accurate, you can afford to put more zip on the ball, but if cranking up your throw results in more inaccuracy, then you're not going to do it as much during a game.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am glad Mac didn't go to the Combine.

I am glad Mac fell to #15.

I am glad people think Mac has a weak arm and a low ceiling.

The perfect plan is all coming together.

Again, arm strength is overrated once you've reached the "strong enough" threshold. The low ceiling thing is something new that's largely a product of the pimping of QBs who run more. It's not meaningless, but it's largely a nothing idea.

All anyone has to know about the concept of ceiling is that Brady's initial projected ceiling, as it's currently being applied, would have been viewed as being lower than Jones', if he were coming out today, because of his greater lack of running.