PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
Search

Will Mac Jones "tank" us into the #1 Overall Pick? Is that why he's still our starter?


Toofy

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
2,387
Reactions
2,935
When it comes to franchise QBs there are no guarantees, especially if the Pats have #2.
  • 1993. DREW BLEDSOE, NE. RICK MIRER, SEA. ...
  • 1998. PEYTON MANNING. RYAN LEAF. ...
  • 1999. TIM COUCH. DONOVAN McNABB. ...
  • 2012. ANDREW LUCK. ROBERT GRIFFIN III. ...
  • 2015. JAMEIS WINSTON. MARCUS MARIOTA. ...
  • 2016. JARED GOFF. CARSON WENTZ. ...
  • 2021. TREVOR LAWRENCE. ZACH WILSON.
Great post. This is the fear I have .... Can davis mills/ Cousins be a decent bridge QB while we draft a mid round QB with high potential and allow him to develop while drafting best player available in R1 and R2 instead of QB where bust potential is so high.

Considering that we are so devoid of talent, reiterating Ian's point, is it worthwhile to draft a QB this year before we create an identity . We are more like Texans couple of years back . We need to build talent on both sides , build a new GM office and coaching team before we draft QB.

With so much churn, does it make sense to draft QB. I think we should draft Marvin Harrison if available and go QB in r3 or late round 2.
 

sb1

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
34,418
Reactions
38,624
Considering that we are so devoid of talent,
Oh no we're not devoid of talent, BB with a proven genius track record on offense in the NFL built this amazing offense with a great OL and all these great weapons and all we need to do now is change the QB and poof instant contenders.

Or so certain posters want me to believe. rofl
 

Stu Pidassle

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
965
Reactions
1,684
Great post. This is the fear I have .... Can davis mills/ Cousins be a decent bridge QB while we draft a mid round QB with high potential and allow him to develop while drafting best player available in R1 and R2 instead of QB where bust potential is so high.

Considering that we are so devoid of talent, reiterating Ian's point, is it worthwhile to draft a QB this year before we create an identity . We are more like Texans couple of years back . We need to build talent on both sides , build a new GM office and coaching team before we draft QB.

With so much churn, does it make sense to draft QB. I think we should draft Marvin Harrison if available and go QB in r3 or late round 2.
It does seem like a chicken and egg scenario with the QB and establishing team culture. With a deep QB draft and no obvious generational talents, I don't want the team to bet too much on someone who could spectacularly bust. I would prefer that the Pats pick a Harrison or an LT as their pick in the draft. Best case scenario the Pats drop down to 10 or so to draft an LT and pick up a second 1st round pick that they can use on a QB. Keep Mac since he is not worth anything, pick up a veteran and make it an open competition with the new guy.
 

sb1

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
34,418
Reactions
38,624
It does seem like a chicken and egg scenario with the QB and establishing team culture. With a deep QB draft and no obvious generational talents, I don't want the team to bet too much on someone who could spectacularly bust. I would prefer that the Pats pick a Harrison or an LT as their pick in the draft. Best case scenario the Pats drop down to 10 or so to draft an LT and pick up a second 1st round pick that they can use on a QB. Keep Mac since he is not worth anything, pick up a veteran and make it an open competition with the new guy.
100%.

A miss at the top of the draft would be catastrophic for the rebuild. There are concerns with both consensus QBs at the top of the draft.
 

captain stone

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
34,025
Reactions
27,269
There is no way that BB tanks. It is not in his DNA. Not a chance.

The only thing I know about Bill's DNA is that, when placed under a microscope, shows that he Sucks as a HC without a HOF QB under him.


And Mac is really not that bad; he just has no one to throw to and little in the way of line protection. However he is psychologically damaged from fans, and now coaches, excoriating him. His downfall started with "dirty player" accusations; he was clearly affected by that baloney and had a dreadful game as a result (calling an NFL quarterback a "dirty" player is like (to paraphrase Apocalypse Now) handing out a speeding ticket at the Indianapolis Speedway). Since then he has been a mess, trying make up for lack of WR separation by forcing the ball and trying to make up of lack of protection by throwing on the run...both of which lead to disaster. Anyone who thinks that Mac sucks should watch his college highlights....and his first year with the Patriots.

Mac does indeed Suck. His college highlights & his first year with the Pats were Frauds.


The Patriots, being what they are this year, will confound expectations and win against the Giants and a few other dodgy teams. I seriously doubt that they will end up with the number 3 pick.....more like number 8 or so.

I really, Really hope that doesn't happen. The Only game I want them to win from here on out is the KC one.
 

cmasspatsfan

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
7,919
Reactions
7,222
It does seem like a chicken and egg scenario with the QB and establishing team culture. With a deep QB draft and no obvious generational talents, I don't want the team to bet too much on someone who could spectacularly bust. I would prefer that the Pats pick a Harrison or an LT as their pick in the draft. Best case scenario the Pats drop down to 10 or so to draft an LT and pick up a second 1st round pick that they can use on a QB. Keep Mac since he is not worth anything, pick up a veteran and make it an open competition with the new guy.
I don't follow college football much, is their a second tier of QBs you like that could be had in the second round?
 

captain stone

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
34,025
Reactions
27,269
Is tanking even a thing? Why would players and coaches risk losing their jobs for a season they might not even be apart of after “the tank?”. They waste one of their prime years for what?

If a coaching staff is unsure of their future with their current team, then naturally they'll play anybody & everybody who they believe gives them a better chance to win... A staff secure in their future, however, would take the rest of a season such as this one - after first trading as many of their vets on the last year of their contracts, and whom the team does not plan to re-sign to a large or perhaps even to a competitive ex-tension, as possible - to further evaluate young/inexperienced players while at the same time also give those veterans nursing injuries And signed through at least the following season some much-needed R & R - which is Egg-Zactly what Bill should've done during 2020, BTW.
 
Last edited:

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
16,566
Reactions
5,104
When it comes to franchise QBs there are no guarantees, especially if the Pats have #2.
  • 1993. DREW BLEDSOE, NE. RICK MIRER, SEA. ...
  • 1998. PEYTON MANNING. RYAN LEAF. ...
  • 1999. TIM COUCH. DONOVAN McNABB. ...
  • 2012. ANDREW LUCK. ROBERT GRIFFIN III. ...
  • 2015. JAMEIS WINSTON. MARCUS MARIOTA. ...
  • 2016. JARED GOFF. CARSON WENTZ. ...
  • 2021. TREVOR LAWRENCE. ZACH WILSON.

Yup there have been some failures high in the draft for QB but there has also been a lot of success in recent years:

2017 Patrick Mahomes (10)
2018 Josh Allen (7) Lamar Jackson (32)
2019 Kyler Murray (1)
2020 Joe Burrow (1) Tua Tagavoila (5) Jordan Love (26) Jalen Hurts ( 53)
2021 Trevor Lawrence (1)
2023 CJ Stroud (2)

Jury still out on Pickett (15) from 2022, and Bryce Young (1) from 2023.

Any of those QBs above, I'd take as an upgrade over Mac Jones.
As they say you miss 100% of the swings you don't take.

The NFL is such a QB dependant league that if you carry a negative factor on offense like Mac Jones, you just don't stand a reasonable chance to win.
Sure building a supporting cast around the QB is important, but you need to START with a QB who is capable of carrying the team and leading you to wins.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly Picks Winner
2022 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
63,767
Reactions
14,127
Great post. This is the fear I have .... Can davis mills/ Cousins be a decent bridge QB while we draft a mid round QB with high potential and allow him to develop while drafting best player available in R1 and R2 instead of QB where bust potential is so high.

Considering that we are so devoid of talent, reiterating Ian's point, is it worthwhile to draft a QB this year before we create an identity . We are more like Texans couple of years back . We need to build talent on both sides , build a new GM office and coaching team before we draft QB.

With so much churn, does it make sense to draft QB. I think we should draft Marvin Harrison if available and go QB in r3 or late round 2.
David mills is as bad as 10
 

Toofy

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
2,387
Reactions
2,935
David mills is as bad as 10
I feel the Stanford QBs have something to give. Luck and Fitzpatrick were more than sufficient. I think mills can thrive with good coaching.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly Picks Winner
2022 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
63,767
Reactions
14,127
I feel the Stanford QBs have something to give. Luck and Fitzpatrick were more than sufficient. I think mills can thrive with good coaching.
I’m interested in how a player plays not who went to the same school.
Fitzpatrick didn’t go to Stanford.
 

Toofy

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
2,387
Reactions
2,935
I’m interested in how a player plays not who went to the same school.
Fitzpatrick didn’t go to Stanford.
My bad.. confused with the other ivy... Harvard.. something cerebral about QB.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly Picks Winner
2022 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
63,767
Reactions
14,127

Toofy

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
2,387
Reactions
2,935
Stanford isn’t an Ivy.
Harvard is.

Stanford isn't by true definition and the map location , but on perception is considered to be on par with ivy which denotes excellence.
 

RIpats88

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
6,883
Reactions
8,915
I would have traded him while his stock was fools-gold high after his first year, robbed some other team with his ******** training wheel stats, and it would of been 4D genius management.

I'm hindsight sure. I'm sure eagles would've loved to do the same to Carson wentz.

But at the time he looked like he could be a competent starter.

Just saying I've never seen a team jettison their rookie QB after a season. Especially one in which they played decent.

And not sure if they draft a new guy and say he goes 14tds-14picks his rookie year they should just trade him and start over.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly Picks Winner
2022 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
63,767
Reactions
14,127
Harvard is.

Stanford isn't by true definition and the map location , but on perception is considered to be on par with ivy which denotes excellence.
It isn’t by any definition an Ivy League school. Yes it’s a good school. Bring “ in perception on par” appears harder to say then simply “I was mistaken”
 

FredFromDartmouth

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
3,185
Reactions
1,447
You're one of the last of the holdouts.

Like Outlaw Joisey Wales.

The Union couldn't bring him and make him heel.

I resemble that remark. You just watch, Mac is going to turn this season around and ruin our draft expectations....sure, ha.
 

lancerman

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
8,939
Reactions
10,760
Great post. This is the fear I have .... Can davis mills/ Cousins be a decent bridge QB while we draft a mid round QB with high potential and allow him to develop while drafting best player available in R1 and R2 instead of QB where bust potential is so high.

Considering that we are so devoid of talent, reiterating Ian's point, is it worthwhile to draft a QB this year before we create an identity . We are more like Texans couple of years back . We need to build talent on both sides , build a new GM office and coaching team before we draft QB.

With so much churn, does it make sense to draft QB. I think we should draft Marvin Harrison if available and go QB in r3 or late round 2.
The problem is you need a QB. Bust potential is high, but the highest QB hit rate is in the top 15. Your odds dramatically go down after that.
 

Stu Pidassle

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
965
Reactions
1,684
I don't follow college football much, is their a second tier of QBs you like that could be had in the second round?
I am in the same boat as you. My ideal scenario is based on the understanding that Maye and Williams are too risky to draft with a top two pick.
 

Stu Pidassle

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
965
Reactions
1,684
Yup there have been some failures high in the draft for QB but there has also been a lot of success in recent years:

2017 Patrick Mahomes (10)
2018 Josh Allen (7) Lamar Jackson (32)
2019 Kyler Murray (1)
2020 Joe Burrow (1) Tua Tagavoila (5) Jordan Love (26) Jalen Hurts ( 53)
2021 Trevor Lawrence (1)
2023 CJ Stroud (2)

Jury still out on Pickett (15) from 2022, and Bryce Young (1) from 2023.

Any of those QBs above, I'd take as an upgrade over Mac Jones.
As they say you miss 100% of the swings you don't take.

The NFL is such a QB dependant league that if you carry a negative factor on offense like Mac Jones, you just don't stand a reasonable chance to win.
Sure building a supporting cast around the QB is important, but you need to START with a QB who is capable of carrying the team and leading you to wins.
I agree with your basic premise about the importance of a solid QB. Clearly the chances of finding a franchise QB are better in the first round than later in the draft. I am only saying that the team should not invest a top two pick on a QB that they are not 100% sure of. Looking at your list aligns with with what I would like the team to do. Kyler Murray stands out as someone who was not worth the #1 and there are a number of QB's that were available late in the first round. Parlay the high pick to draft an LT and the chance to take a shot on a potential QB later in the draft. To me that is better than taking a shot at a QB that is only marginally more certain and no LT.
 


Patriots News 2-25, “The Dynasty” Left Much Out, Matthew Slater
Mayo Sets Groundwork, Offers More Transparency With New Staff
Patriots Slater Calling It Quits After 16 Seasons
Patriots News 2-18, The Draft, Free Agency, and “The Dynasty”
MORSE: The Young Guns Patriots New Defensive Coaches
MORSE: Introducing the New Patriots Front Office
49ers Had a Chance, But Questionable Decisions Cost Them in Loss to Chiefs
Patriots News 2-11, Hightower Returns, Staff, Front Office Thoughts
Ranking The 57 Super Bowls From Worst To Best
Wolf’s Ascension Hopefully Will Help Patriots Fix One Key Problem Moving Forward
Top