Tom Curran speculates on if Mac Jones will get Downgraded to third string

[203Pat]

Exactly, I mean look, believe it or not, in the 20 years of players coming and going and coaches coming and going and injuries etc. The patriots were not just a loaded super team from 2001 to 2019. But the difference is, when the players are bad, they were 10-6, not 2-8 and that is the difference. I honestly have zero clue how the pats went to the 2011 superbowl with those receivers or the afc title game in 2006.

This is why the "they went 11-5 in 2008 with Matt Cassel" thing always annoys me. That roster was largely the same as a roster that went 18-1 the year before. Throw the stats out between Brady and Cassel because they weren't even remotely close. A 5 game swing is huge in a 16 game season. Take most playoff teams from any year and swap 5 wins for losses and 90% of the time that team is no longer in the post season.

 

[Pats1971]

Spot on. It's an organizational failure. Responsibility for team regressing and flat out sucking ass in 2023:

Bill Belichick: 85%
Corky Jones: 10%
Injuries: 5%

Kraft needs to hold Bill responsible for this mess after drafting a QB1 in Rd 1 and spending a record amount of $ in FAcy just 2 seasons ago:

1. Instruct Bill not to win another ****ing game.
2. Can Bill's ass on Black Monday.
3. Go find the best GM money can buy (whatever it takes).
4. Let GM find offensive minded HC.
5. Decide what to do w/ Corky (but DO NOT sign 5th yr option).
6. Draft a top QB w/ 3rd (hopefully 2nd pick).
7. Start a new era of Patriots Nation.

I'm excited for the future.

Eh...not really. What people are not really seeing is Bill is coaching and bringing in players the same exact way he did 15 years ago. This was said by Brady on the monday night game in his show. The difference is, you had a QB and other players that could cover up for bad moves and the such, you dont anymore. You have a Qb that needs perfect around him and you dont have the vet presence at other positions. So Bill either has to A. do what he has done that worked for 20 years or completely change the entire process which has not proven to work. There are not teams that did it like the Patriots for 20 years, that doesnt exist. Coaches can only do so much. A perfect playcall was called at the end of that game sunday. It had the TE wide open in the endzone, line blocked, guy ran great route, playcall was correct. It was intercepted. When a coach calls something, if it works they are a genius if it fails they are an idiot. Execution matters always. In 2014 if Wilson throws a walk in TD because the corner does not see it and make a move. Wilson is praised, the coach is called a genius for throwing right there because the pats didnt expect it. But since Butler made a play....the coach is an idiot and wilson choked.

 

[Fatmancryin]

I would bet Mac starts vs the Giants. This cloak and dagger from BB needs to stop. Either way just announce either or stop playing games with media and fans and stop adding fuel to an already burning blaze. BB always says he’s going to do what’s best for the football team but the way this season has gone and the Mac struggles, I wonder if this is a big FU to Kraft. You wanted him you get him and this is what you get. I really can’t think of another reason why not try something new that should have been after the Saints game when you could have saved the season potentially.

 

[venecol]

Eh...not really. What people are not really seeing is Bill is coaching and bringing in players the same exact way he did 15 years ago. This was said by Brady on the monday night game in his show. The difference is, you had a QB and other players that could cover up for bad moves and the such, you dont anymore. You have a Qb that needs perfect around him and you dont have the vet presence at other positions. So Bill either has to A. do what he has done that worked for 20 years or completely change the entire process which has not proven to work. There are not teams that did it like the Patriots for 20 years, that doesnt exist. Coaches can only do so much. A perfect playcall was called at the end of that game sunday. It had the TE wide open in the endzone, line blocked, guy ran great route, playcall was correct. It was intercepted. When a coach calls something, if it works they are a genius if it fails they are an idiot. Execution matters always. In 2014 if Wilson throws a walk in TD because the corner does not see it and make a move. Wilson is praised, the coach is called a genius for throwing right there because the pats didnt expect it. But since Butler made a play....the coach is an idiot and wilson choked.

Come on man, every single move Bill made the last 4 seasons (and beyond) have brought us to this point. You pointed out the problem, he's trying to do the same thing he's always done and it no longer works. He's not about to change at 71 going on 72. He had a good run. It's over. Time to find a younger executive GM and offensive minded HC to lead the team into the future.

 

[Tunescribe]

Spot on. It's an organizational failure. Responsibility for team regressing and flat out sucking ass in 2023:

Bill Belichick: 85%
Corky Jones: 10%
Injuries: 5%

Kraft needs to hold Bill responsible for this mess after drafting a QB1 in Rd 1 and spending a record amount of $ in FAcy just 2 seasons ago:

1. Instruct Bill not to win another ****ing game.
2. Can Bill's ass on Black Monday.
3. Go find the best GM money can buy (whatever it takes).
4. Let GM find offensive minded HC.
5. Decide what to do w/ Corky (but DO NOT sign 5th yr option).
6. Draft a top QB w/ 3rd (hopefully 2nd pick).
7. Start a new era of Patriots Nation.

I'm excited for the future.

Instruct BB not to win another game, then can him on Black Monday. Do you see any potential problem with this? Think about it.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

We havent seen a snap from him, how do you know?

It's not like he's a blank slate. The games he did play were disasters. It's not like he's a hidden gem we discovered

 

[venecol]

Instruct BB not to win another game, then can him on Black Monday. Do you see any potential problem with this? Think about it.

No I don't. Bill always says what's best for the team. The season is shot. What's best for the team lies in the future. That includes having the best draft position possible.

Bill being canned goes beyond this season. It's about his abject failure in putting together a competitive team after 4 post-Brady seasons. Bill was great for 20 years. It's over. Time to move on. Even a blind man can see it. Krafts aren't blind.

 

[sb1]

This is why the "they went 11-5 in 2008 with Matt Cassel" thing always annoys me. That roster was largely the same as a roster that went 18-1 the year before. Throw the stats out between Brady and Cassel because they weren't even remotely close. A 5 game swing is huge in a 16 game season. Take most playoff teams from any year and swap 5 wins for losses and 90% of the time that team is no longer in the post season.

Exactly.

11-5 minus 5 games is 6-10. Now that 5 game loss doesn't look so great anymore.

 

[Fatmancryin]

 

[sb1]

Come on man, every single move Bill made the last 4 seasons (and beyond) have brought us to this point. You pointed out the problem, he's trying to do the same thing he's always done and it no longer works. He's not about to change at 71 going on 72. He had a good run. It's over. Time to find a younger executive GM and offensive minded HC to lead the team into the future.

Barnwell has a great article about this. It's really damning to Bill as it should be.

Hang em up coach. Great run. Doubt we see anything like it for a long time. Brady is gone it's time to turn the page to a brand new era.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This has been my thing. The offense is bad. The receivers are bad. The offensive line has been inconsistent. That is all true. But I think with an adequate QB they could be below average and with a great QB you could say theyre an average or "pedestrian" group. Mac is Brady in reverse. Instead of dragging a bunch of JAGs like Chris Hogan, Brandon Lafell, Jabar Gaffney, Reche Caldwell, etc to AFCCGs and super bowls Mac makes JAGS like Parker, Juju, Jonnu look like absolute dumpster fires. Granted Brady is the greatest player to ever play the position and it is unfair to ask Mac to be anything close to Brady but Mac still needs to elevate the guys around him to some extent.

A pretty reasonable take. The receivers are not bad, JJSS won a SB last year. The receivers are average. Mac is Brady in reverse - correct. And the team supported Mac when he sucked including his temper tantrums. OL is average too. With a reasonable QB the Pats are a fringe playoff team but we are probably better off with a high draft pick so playing Mac worked.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Good. Let's see somebody else.

 

[Tunescribe]

No I don't. Bill always says what's best for the team. The season is shot. What's best for the team lies in the future. That includes having the best draft position possible.

Bill being canned goes beyond this season. It's about his abject failure in putting together a competitive team after 4 post-Brady seasons. Bill was great for 20 years. It's over. Time to move on. Even a blind man can see it. Krafts aren't blind.

I was hoping you'd figure this out but your abject Belichick hatred has blinded you. If Kraft instructs his coach to tank the remaining seven games then fires him as you suggest, BB can turn around and get his ex-boss in tremendous hot water with the league leading to possible fine, suspension and loss of draft picks. Of course, it's assumed there would be incentive involved as in the Dolphins' Ross-Flores case, be it monetary or draft pick related. Regarding the latter solely, "bribery" might be a tough standard to prove. But at the very least, BB could do significant damage to Kraft's reputation and that of the Patriots.

Suffice to say it's ridiculous to suggest Kraft would order such a thing or that BB would carry it out, even if he could.

Is tanking illegal?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/us/nfl-miami-dolphins-suspend/index.html#:~:text=Follow%20CNN-,NFL%20suspends%20Miami%20Dolphins%20owner%20and%20strips%20team%20of,after%20tampering%20and%20tanking%20probe&text=The%20NFL%20suspended%20Miami%20Dolphins,to%20integrity%20of%20the%20game.

 

[TheRainMaker]

No I don't. Bill always says what's best for the team. The season is shot. What's best for the team lies in the future. That includes having the best draft position possible.

Bill being canned goes beyond this season. It's about his abject failure in putting together a competitive team after 4 post-Brady seasons. Bill was great for 20 years. It's over. Time to move on. Even a blind man can see it. Krafts aren't blind.

Look, I think Bill's time should be up. This franchise needs a hard reset. But if you were in Bill's shoes, you wouldn't want to lose every game which would really tarnish your legacy just so the team can have a higher pick while knowing you were going to get fired. Bill would probably resign immediately if Bob asked him to purposely lose games.

A high draft pick is nice, but we've seen many teams mess this up. Andy Reid benefitted from San Francisco high fiving and declaring they won the draft (they seriously did this) after taking a midget DL 3rd overall (Soloman Thomas and Rueben Foster later) and Chicago taking Mitch Trubisky 2nd overall over DeShaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes. How many times have we've seen the Jets mess it up? Travon Walker has 3.5 career sacks in the two season with Jacksonville. I still have no idea idea how he was the 1st overall pick. The Raiders cleared out the front office and sent them home the day before the draft so nobody would leak them wanting to select Clelin Ferrell with the 4th overall pick?

 

[venecol]

I was hoping you'd figure this out but your abject Belichick hatred has blinded you. If Kraft instructs his coach to tank the remaining seven games then fires him as you suggest, BB can turn around and get his ex-boss in tremendous hot water with the league leading to possible fine, suspension and loss of draft picks. Of course, it's assumed there would be incentive involved as in the Dolphins' Ross-Flores case, be it monetary or draft pick related. Regarding the latter solely, "bribery" might be a tough standard to prove. But at the very least, BB could do significant damage to Kraft's reputation and that of the Patriots.

Suffice to say it's ridiculous to suggest Kraft would order such a thing or that BB would carry it out, even if he could.

Is tanking illegal?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/us/nfl-miami-dolphins-suspend/index.html#:~:text=Follow%20CNN-,NFL%20suspends%20Miami%20Dolphins%20owner%20and%20strips%20team%20of,after%20tampering%20and%20tanking%20probe&text=The%20NFL%20suspended%20Miami%20Dolphins,to%20integrity%20of%20the%20game.

So now you're implying Bill's a snitch? Lol

Come on man, think a little. Belichick and the Krafts have a very long relationship. Bob gave Bill his chance. They both benefitted from it. These are serious men. They'll have an open and honest conversation about how it's best for the team (for so many reasons) for them to part ways. Bill gets his $ due from his contract and the option on how best to terminate the relationship to save face. He can choose to go elsewhere if he wishes. They can openly talk about how best to leave the team for the future. Bill has never let out so much as a comma from what's discussed behind closed doors. He's not about to start now. Even Bill realizes that it's over.

 

[venecol]

Look, I think Bill's time should be up. This franchise needs a hard reset. But if you were in Bill's shoes, you wouldn't want to lose every game which would really tarnish your legacy just so the team can have a higher pick while knowing you were going to get fired. Bill would probably resign immediately if Bob asked him to purposely lose games.

A high draft pick is nice, but we've seen many teams mess this up. Andy Reid benefitted from San Francisco high fiving and declaring they won the draft (they seriously did this) after taking a midget DL 3rd overall (Soloman Thomas and Rueben Foster later) and Chicago taking Mitch Trubisky 2nd overall over DeShaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes. How many times have we've seen the Jets mess it up? Travon Walker has 3.5 career sacks in the two season with Jacksonville. I still have no idea idea how he was the 1st overall pick. The Raiders cleared out the front office and sent them home the day before the draft so nobody would leak them wanting to select Clelin Ferrell with the 4th overall pick?

None of those examples is a reason for the Patriots not to have their chance at it.

 

[sb1]

Gronk has some interesting takes on Mac and BB.

Also Kay Adams. That is all….

 

[yukon cornelius]

Gronk has some interesting takes on Mac and BB. He thinks Mac is not respected here and should ask for his release even right now and then sign with Cleveland.

Also Kay Adams. That is all….

Gronk was a lot of things.......quality analyst was not one of those things......that and the chip on his shoulder towards Bill, well


who is kay adams, BTW?

 

[Grogan14]

If true....This is a full blown tank. I am OK with that. Of course no on will call it a tank and really its "setting the rebuild up for success".
But let's face it with Zappe or Grier as starting QB and this offense, they could possibly average under 12 points a game for the rest of the season. I also suspect this means Bill knows he is gone at the end of the season.

 

[Grogan14]

Gronk has some interesting takes on Mac and BB.

Also Kay Adams. That is all….

Of course he is not respected. What has he done to deserve respect?