Rumor: Some Patriots Players Have Doubts About Cam Newton

[Love The Drake]

Question is has the shoulder and arm gotten stronger.
Because if the answer is no he’s really just a utility guy without a true position.

 

[goheels22002]

Our number one corner is coming off an injury, getting older, and may be disgruntled/traded. Our number two corner is great as a number two but struggled mightily as a number one last year. I don't always trust those Baltimore LB's on big money deals once they leave the Ravens. Van Noy is a couple years older than when we last had him. Hightower is older, has a history or injuries, and also didn't play all last year. Our defensive line at least has depth but aside from Guy I don’t think any of them are your clear cut starter(s).

I think the defense will be definitely better than last year just due to the fact that we at least have some depth in the front seven now but to call it "elite" when camp hasn't even started yet is ridiculous.

Thank you. The Gilmore thing is a slight concern, but a bump in pay from his 2021 $8 million (including incentives) deal to $11M or $12M will probably help his strained quad get better. The Pats have the cap space to get that deal done. The Gilmore issue is an interesting test for GM-Trainee Matt Patricia to solve. Gilmore reported on time, is justified to use PUP to get his contract settled. He's earned the right to "get what I'm worth."

Linebacker looks loaded to me. Not sure why you doubt Matt Judon's ability, especially with guys like Josh Uche and Chase Winovich in the rotation. The main question in my mind is whether Bentley is a genuine starting ILB.

 

[203Pat]

Thank you. The Gilmore thing is a slight concern, but a bump in pay from his 2021 $8 million (including incentives) deal to $11M or $12M will probably help his strained quad get better. The Pats have the cap space to get that deal done. The Gilmore issue is an interesting test for GM-Trainee Matt Patricia to solve. Gilmore reported on time, is justified to use PUP to get his contract settled. He's earned the right to "get what I'm worth."

Linebacker looks loaded to me. Not sure why you doubt Matt Judon's ability, especially with guys like Josh Uche and Chase Winovich in the rotation. The main question in my mind is whether Bentley is a genuine starting ILB.

If Van Noy and Hightower look like they are close to what they were last time we saw them in Patriots uniforms I think the LB group will be one of the stronger units on the team. I think Uche and Winovich may be battling it out for that opposite outside LB/pass rusher spot with Wino being a potential surprise cut/trade candidate. Bentley can fall back into a rotational role where he is much better suited (that is if he doesn't lose his job to McMillian). The thing with Judon isn't as much about him as it is the history of Ravens linebackers signing big money deals elsewhere and not living up to the contract. I don't know if it is the system they run there that lets the LB's rack up the stats to get paid or what but they generally seem right when they don't re-sign one of their LB's to a big money deal. Paul Kruger, Ed Hartwell, Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott, Dannell Ellerbe. All free agent busts elsewhere. Outside of Zardarius Smith none of them have really done much outside of Baltimore.

 

[rochrist]

Rumors are just that. I remember rumors of the Covid virus was a hoax. Saying them doesn't make them true.

Rumors aside, I've been thinking a LOT about the QB situation and AT THIS POINT, I've come to this conclusion. It would be best for the TEAM if Cam performed well enough to start the season. Starting rookie QB's rarely work out, even for QB's who later turn out to be great. Wanna remember Payton's first year, or Brees' (and the list can go on and on.)

(.....edited for space)

That was a bad rebuilding team the Colts had in 98. No one cared when Manning made mistake after mistake. This isn't that kind of team. This is team with a 3 year window, and Bill doesn't want to give up 33% of that window while a rookie goes through his growing pains.

That presents an interesting question. How many of those rookie QB's who had rough years (out of the highly rated ones) were dropped in place on teams that were ready to contend. As you note with Manning, that was a ****ty team. How many of his problems stem from being a rookie and how many from just being on a bad team? And how would he have looked if he'd been dropped into place with a prospective SB winner?

 

[rochrist]

Agree. There is no precedent for a rookie QB coming in and seeing, for the first time, how to handle elite NFL defenses or crafty defensive coordinators, well enough to win a Superbowl. Mahomes and Brady sat a year first for good reason. Mac isn't Marino. This Pats team is built to make a run, not to rebuild just yet, so it wouldn't make sense to burn a year while a rookie QB makes every inevitable mistake and then waste maybe the last year together of McCourty, Hightower, and Gilmore.

Actually, Dan Marino did ok. (another interesting thing about him is that he was the SIXTH QB drafted that year - 27th in the first round .) He didn't start till the sixth game, but he went on to have a pretty good year, losing to Seattle narrowly in the playoffs. And then of course he threw 48 TDs his SECOND year.

 

[Hyped]

General comments/thoughts:

- Brady was not pro-ready his rookie year. In fact, I expected him to be cut and re-signed to the practice squad. He was pencil thin!

- Brady in year 2 was actually looking VERY good, but not yet ready to supplant Bledsoe. He was leaps and bounds better than Huard though and that was obvious.

- Jones is more pro-ready than Brady was in 2000...and maybe even 2001.

- Cam will be hard to unseat regardless and if Cam plays mistake-free ball, he is starting, IMO. And it will be his job unless he makes mistakes.

- If Jones is going to start at all this year, he will have to be decisively better than Cam in camp...and practices.

- Either way, we are going to get BETTER QB play this year anyway. So, I am good!

- And previously I have floated the idea of Cam at TE.....I think he would be good. We could put 41 personnel out there and run a play action fake...but have the RB throw the ball to Cam.....

 

[Zuma]

Question is has the shoulder and arm gotten stronger.
Because if the answer is no he’s really just a utility guy without a true position.

He's had 2 or 3 surgeries on the shoulder. IMO its not going to get better. He can work it to try to make it stronger but that's more wear and tear on an already shot shoulder.

 

[captain stone]

One season of 7-9 is not a trend.

The defense in 2021 is elite by any measure, especially the front seven with the security of knowing they can get after the QB and fill their gaps with a great secondary in support. Hightower and Van Noy will restore order to your universe.

The 2021 defense is Far from elite...We have no Beef Curtain to help stop the run; our DEs opposite Judon are Wise, Wino & a rookie; Phillips is our only S/LB able or even willing to cover anyone; we have no proven Outside CB #3; and Lord help us if our #1 CB's recovery takes longer than hoped and/or renders him less effective than he was pre-injury in 2020, when he didn't exactly remind anyone of his 2019 season anyway.

The Patriots offense is dramatically better with the additions of the TEs alone. The WR corps is vastly better as well. The QB room has three veterans and a 1st round selection who understudied at Alabama behind two current NFL starters.

The OL still has questions to answer, and its depth after Karras is trash.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Actually, Dan Marino did ok. (another interesting thing about him is that he was the SIXTH QB drafted that year - 27th in the first round .) He didn't start till the sixth game, but he went on to have a pretty good year, losing to Seattle narrowly in the playoffs. And then of course he threw 48 TDs his SECOND year.

That's what I mean. Even the best possible case, the rookie QB isn't ready to go all the way and win it all. This is maybe the last good year of McCourty, Hightower, and Gilmore together, I don't want to waste it on a year of a rookie QB making inevitable mistakes and we lose in the first round. I'd go with Cam as the first option. But yes if Cam stinks the bed in Sept then have to evalute everything (including trading away defensive vets for draft picks and just blow it all up before the trading deadline).

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's what I mean. Even the best possible case, the rookie QB isn't ready. This is maybe the last good year of McCourty, Hightower, and Gilmore together, I don't want to waste it on a year of a rookie QB making inevitable mistakes and we lose in the first round. I'd go with Cam as the first option. But yes if Cam stinks the bed in Sept then have to evalute everything (including trading away defensive vets for draft picks and just blow it all up before the trading deadline).

If Cam ****s the bed in 2021 then they play Mac.

If Mac plays like Cam then the D is still there to keep them in games.

They are not going 7-9 again. Roster has much more talent than last year.

More cap clears in 2022 with older players gone, Mac is in Year 2 of rookie deal with a ton more experience and the re-loading of the roster continues.

 

[goheels22002]

The 2021 defense is Far from elite...We have no Beef Curtain to help stop the run; our DEs opposite Judon are Wise, Wino & a rookie; Phillips is our only S/LB able or even willing to cover anyone; we have no proven Outside CB #3; and Lord help us if our #1 CB's recovery takes longer than hoped and/or renders him less effective than he was pre-injury in 2020, when he didn't exactly remind anyone of his 2019 season anyway.

Not sure how you miss them but 2021 additions 6'3" 311lb NT Davon Godchaux, 6'6" 300lb DT Henry Anderson, and 6'6" 310lb Rookie NT Christian Barmore seem to address your concerns about the front 3.

 

[Sicilian]

We have no Beef Curtain

I REALLY need you to find another term for this concept...

 

[PScottman]

is whether Bentley is a genuine starting ILB.

When is he starting? Teams dont put four LBs on the field anymore consistently unless they are elite cover guys...most teams barely even start three!! The most common alignment is two LBs (Hightower and Judon most likely) with Van Noy and probably Uche sprinkled in. Bentley (if he even makes the squad) is a reserve again on this team.

 

[Sicilian]

When is he starting? Teams dont put four LBs on the field anymore...barely even three!! The most common alignment is two LBs (Hightower and Judon most likely) with Van Noy and probably Uche sprinkled in. Bently (if he even makes the squad) is a reserve again on this team.

I think Bentley, MacMillan, Hall, and Langi are all kind of fighting for 2 reserve ILB spots behind Hightower. I think the rest of the linebackers are going to be edge/olb types that will occasionally roam about on 3rd and long, amoeba style.

 

[goheels22002]

When is he starting? Teams dont put four LBs on the field anymore...barely even three!! The most common alignment is two LBs (Hightower and Judon most likely) with Van Noy and probably Uche sprinkled in. Bently (if he even makes the squad) is a reserve again on this team.

With Mayo's amoeba look last year (which I liked) the traditional positions of the front seven are pretty much obsolete. However, I see a lot more 3-4/4-3 looks this year to stop the run with the additions of Barmore, Godchaux and Anderson to go with Wise and Guy up front. Christian Barmore is coming into a great situation with Belichick coaching and the veterans in the DL room.

In a traditional Belichick 3-4, I see Judon, Bentley, Hightower and Van Noy at LB with some excellent situational backups in Winovich, Uche, and 2nd year speedster Anfernee Jennings.

Others disagree with me, but the overall defense has loads depth, speed and a great combination of youth and savvy veterans.

 

[RobertWeathers]

With Mayo's amoeba look last year (which I liked) the traditional positions of the front seven are pretty much obsolete. However, I see a lot more 3-4/4-3 looks this year to stop the run with the additions of Barmore, Godchaux and Anderson to go with Wise and Guy up front. Christian Barmore is coming into a great situation with Belichick coaching and the veterans in the DL room.

In a traditional Belichick 3-4, I see Judon, Bentley, Hightower and Van Noy at LB with some excellent situational backups in Winovich, Uche, and 2nd year speedster Anfernee Jennings.

Others disagree with me, but the overall defense has loads depth, speed and a great combination of youth and savvy veterans.

Agree mostly but I think we might see Uche a lot in a ILB -blitzer type role as well. He did it last year and also in OTEs

Not a lot of speed with Jennings. He's a big ole OLB.

 

[Ring 6]

General comments/thoughts:

- Brady was not pro-ready his rookie year. In fact, I expected him to be cut and re-signed to the practice squad. He was pencil thin!

- Brady in year 2 was actually looking VERY good, but not yet ready to supplant Bledsoe. He was leaps and bounds better than Huard though and that was obvious.

- Jones is more pro-ready than Brady was in 2000...and maybe even 2001.

- Cam will be hard to unseat regardless and if Cam plays mistake-free ball, he is starting, IMO. And it will be his job unless he makes mistakes.

- If Jones is going to start at all this year, he will have to be decisively better than Cam in camp...and practices.

- Either way, we are going to get BETTER QB play this year anyway. So, I am good!

- And previously I have floated the idea of Cam at TE.....I think he would be good. We could put 41 personnel out there and run a play action fake...but have the RB throw the ball to Cam.....

How can “Cam be hard to unseat”? He is among the worst few starting QBs in the league, probably half the teams have better backups than him.
I would list him and Andy Dalton as the 2 easiest to unseat starting QBs in the entire league.

 

[Ring 6]

Agree mostly but I think we might see Uche a lot in a ILB -blitzer type role as well. He did it last year and also in OTEs

Not a lot of speed with Jennings. He's a big ole OLB.

Uche may be used similarly to the way Vannoy has been used, playing many different spots, inside, outside on the ball, off the ball.
That’s the closest comparison in utilization of any patriot in recent history IMO.

 

[bormio]

Some Patriots fans have doubts about Cam Newton.

 

[Hyped]

How can “Cam be hard to unseat”? He is among the worst few starting QBs in the league, probably half the teams have better backups than him.
I would list him and Andy Dalton as the 2 easiest to unseat starting QBs in the entire league.

He is still a former MVP and started 15 games last year...not even Stidham could break through for a start or two.