Rewatch Thread: Philly @ NE (Preseason #2)

[PP2]

I’m not sure what your point is. Mine is that it’s hard for a 380 lb OL to catch a 200lb DB in space.
But whatever, let’s just say you are right. You need one.

You're just playing dumb here. You agreed with my assertion that Brown should have driven forward, and that way square up for a controlled block that would have allowed Dorsett to read better better. Dorsett would then have had been able to bounce to the outside for an uncontested TD.

Instead Brown comes in at a horrendous angle- makes it impossible to block cleanly, overshoots, and just allows the DB to squirt around to stop Dorsett.

 

[maineman209]

I’m glad hat Patterson has flashed but a litttle concerned he’s not getting more usage earlier in the games. Is he still having issues with route running (his long-term issue)?

I have a feeling that they've just been giving him a few sort of miscellaneous reps at "normal" WR to see what he might be able to do with them, without revealing much about how they intend to use him. Those plays are simply not in the pre-season playbook. So, maybe it doesn't much matter at what point in the pre-season games Patterson gets those reps.

 

[manxman2601]

I have a feeling that they've just been giving him a few sort of miscellaneous reps at "normal" WR to see what he might be able to do with them, without revealing much about how they intend to use him. Those plays are simply not in the pre-season playbook. So, maybe it doesn't much matter at what point in the pre-season games Patterson gets those reps.

yup. my concern is that Patterson seems to be our only deep threat alternative atm at WR. Maybe Britt steps up into that role but that's betting on fairly long odds. Aside from Gronk and flashes from Hogan, unless Patterson takes on a more comprehensive WR role, I don't see us stretching the field much this year. But then, that's been the norm for the Pats so maybe not all bad. If Patterson only scores on a few WR screens and gadget plays, I'm not going to complain - that is what we were expecting when he signed. Anything more than that would be a bonus.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Agreed. He made mistakes but there is talent, and athleticism, there. Puts me in mind of that guy who got released and signed with the Jets. Sorry, name escapes me.

Darryl Roberts. Both were pre draft favorites.

Good to see you around.

 

[Ring 6]

You're just playing dumb here. You agreed with my assertion that Brown should have driven forward, and that way square up for a controlled block that would have allowed Dorsett to read better better. Dorsett would then have had been able to bounce to the outside for an uncontested TD.

No I did not.
I said that a large OL has a better chance of disrupting a small Sb when he is moving forward ahead of the ball carrier because the Db has to commit. Which illustrates why it was an unreasonable block for him to make.

We do not know the play design and whether brown was supposed to kick out, or something else.

Instead Brown comes in at a horrendous angle- makes it impossible to block cleanly, overshoots, and just allows the DB to squirt around to stop Dorsett.

I seriously do not know what you are arguing but you seem to want to argue nonetheless.
So again, whatever it is you are trying to say you are right. Can you stop now?

 

[manxman2601]

Darryl Roberts. Both were pre draft favorites.

Good to see you around.

Ah yes. Thanks. There were reasons as mentioned in another thread. Don't want to labour it.

53 Man Roster Projection After 2 Preseason Game

 

[maineman209]

yup. my concern is that Patterson seems to be our only deep threat alternative atm at WR. Maybe Britt steps up into that role but that's betting on fairly long odds. Aside from Gronk and flashes from Hogan, unless Patterson takes on a more comprehensive WR role, I don't see us stretching the field much this year. But then, that's been the norm for the Pats so maybe not all bad. If Patterson only scores on a few WR screens and gadget plays, I'm not going to complain - that is what we were expecting when he signed. Anything more than that would be a bonus.

The thing about Dorsett is that he had almost identical measureables to Cooks ... same hgt, wgt, same 4.33/40, slightly better 3-cone. We haven't seen him used as a Cooks-like deep threat - yet. But then, the Pats offense doesn't appear to have schemed to get him into that position - yet.

 

[manxman2601]

The thing about Dorsett is that he had almost identical measureables to Cooks ... same hgt, wgt, same 4.33/40, slightly better 3-cone. We haven't seen him used as a Cooks-like deep threat - yet. But then, the Pats offense doesn't appear to have schemed to get him into that position - yet.

I've been rather underwhelmed by him so far. To be honest, I think I'd be happier with Hollister getting his reps as a move TE. But if Dorsett could give us 2/3 of what Cooks gave us, I'd take that.

 

[manxman2601]

it was good to see more interior blitzing from Van Noy and Bentley in the game. Hope it becomes a feature, not an aberration.

 

[Tony2046]

I've been rather underwhelmed by him so far. To be honest, I think I'd be happier with Hollister getting his reps as a move TE. But if Dorsett could give us 2/3 of what Cooks gave us, I'd take that.

Do you mean 67% of what Cooks gave us??

Uh oh.

 

[manxman2601]

Do you mean 67% of what Cooks gave us??

Uh oh.

I'll take 600-700 yards from a 5th (?) receiver.

 

[Tony2046]

I'll take 600-700 yards from a 5th (?) receiver.

I agree. My comment was a spillover joke from another discussion. My apologies to you that I used your post to do it with.

 

[Mack Herron]

I've been rather underwhelmed by him so far. To be honest, I think I'd be happier with Hollister getting his reps as a move TE. But if Dorsett could give us 2/3 of what Cooks gave us, I'd take that.

Pigs will fly first.

 

[luuked]

yup. my concern is that Patterson seems to be our only deep threat alternative atm at WR. Maybe Britt steps up into that role but that's betting on fairly long odds. Aside from Gronk and flashes from Hogan, unless Patterson takes on a more comprehensive WR role, I don't see us stretching the field much this year. But then, that's been the norm for the Pats so maybe not all bad. If Patterson only scores on a few WR screens and gadget plays, I'm not going to complain - that is what we were expecting when he signed. Anything more than that would be a bonus.

I would be shocked if Patterson could give us anything consistent deep (or even in the midrange game). As a decoy ? Sure. But as an actual receiving option I just don't see it. There is nothing in his tape of previous years (or this preseason) to suggest that he can be consistent there.

But hey I would be happy to be absolutely wrong about this.

 

[maineman209]

I've been rather underwhelmed by him so far. To be honest, I think I'd be happier with Hollister getting his reps as a move TE. But if Dorsett could give us 2/3 of what Cooks gave us, I'd take that.

In 2010, Brandon Tate ended up being the Pats #3WR and Brady's #5 tgt (more or less tied with Woodhead), behind Welker, Branch, Ahern, and Gronk. Tate's stat line:

24/46 (52%), 432 yds (18.0 ypc), 3 TDs ... + 5 rushes for 62 yds (in addition to his rushing/receiving, of course, he had 42 KR for 1,057 yds/25.8 avg, and 2 TDs for the Pats in 2010).

Tate's WR stat line wouldn't be terrible production from Dorsett, and Dorsett's catch rate has been much higher (although not this pre-season, so far).

I've always found it odd that Tate is considered to be a flat-out bust for a 3rd-round pick (#83). He came down with a horrible case of the yips (or something) in 2011 Pats Camp, and lost his roster spot to ... Ochocinco?? Nevertheless, Tate went on to have a solid career as a KR and #4/#5 WR for Cinci and BUF (through last season).

 

[luuked]

Tate's WR stat line wouldn't be terrible production from Dorsett, and Dorsett's catch rate has been much higher (although not this pre-season, so far).

I agree.

Given how many targets will go to Gronk, Edelman, Hogan and RBs I think 400-500 yards from whoever is next sounds absolutely fine. Hell I would have been absolutely satisfied with our TE2 last year having 20-25 receptions and called it an ok receiving season.

All of this has to always be seen through the big picture view.

 

[maineman209]

I would be shocked if Patterson could give us anything consistent deep (or even in the midrange game). As a decoy ? Sure. But as an actual receiving option I just don't see it. There is nothing in his tape of previous years (or this preseason) to suggest that he can be consistent there.

But hey I would be happy to be absolutely wrong about this.

During Patterson's first two seasons (2013-14), Minny tried using him as a "deep threat", at least some of the time. His average YPC was 11 yds (54% YAC), and his catch rate was a mediocre 54%.

Then, in 2015, the Vikes used him almost exclusively as a KR (only 4 total touches in scrimmage play).

During his last season in Minny (2016), and then last year in Oakland, Patterson wasn't used as a "deep threat" much at all. His average YPC was still about 9 yds, but with 69% YAC (< 3 "air yards" per reception). His catch rate jumped from 54% to 69% with that change.

Another aspect of Patterson's overall game to consider is that he averaged about 10 rushes per season for 110 yards, on jet-sweeps, end-arounds, etc. That's something that Edelman has typically done that Patterson may now cover.

Anyway, the debates surrounding Patterson's route-running, and about whether or not he can be a "deep threat", seem kind of tangential to me. I'm really not certain why folks are even thinking in those terms. It feels like building arbitrary expectations that are almost certain to go unfulfilled - thus "proving" the summary dismissals that "Patterson sucks as a WR" and is "only good for gadget plays".

Sure, he has speed and he carries the nominal positional designation "WR", but f**k that. Why not evaluate him for the role he can play? His optimal role in the passing attack seems to be closer to that of a receiving RB or a move TE. Thinking of Patterson as "AHern-lite" makes a metric crap-tonne more sense to me than comparing him to Moss and other, true WR "deep threats".

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

During Patterson's first two seasons (2013-14), Minny tried using him as a "deep threat", at least some of the time. His average YPC was 11 yds (54% YAC), and his catch rate was a mediocre 54%.

Then, in 2015, the Vikes used him almost exclusively as a KR (only 4 total touches in scrimmage play).

During his last season in Minny (2016), and then last year in Oakland, Patterson wasn't used as a "deep threat" much at all. His average YPC was still about 9 yds, but with 69% YAC (< 3 "air yards" per reception). His catch rate jumped from 54% to 69% with that change.

Another aspect of Patterson's overall game to consider is that he averaged about 10 rushes per season for 110 yards, on jet-sweeps, end-arounds, etc. That's something that Edelman has typically done that Patterson may now cover.

Anyway, the debates surrounding Patterson's route-running, and about whether or not he can be a "deep threat", seem kind of tangential to me. I'm really not certain why folks are even thinking in those terms. It feels like building arbitrary expectations that are almost certain to go unfulfilled - thus "proving" the summary dismissals that "Patterson sucks as a WR" and is "only good for gadget plays".

Sure, he has speed and he carries the nominal positional designation "WR", but f**k that. Why not evaluate him for the role he can play? His optimal role in the passing attack seems to be closer to that of a receiving RB or a move TE. Thinking of Patterson as "AHern-lite" makes a metric crap-tonne more sense to me than comparing him to Moss and other, true WR "deep threats".

You & lukked nailed it. I'd love to see it but there's literally nothing to suggest or support that.

Side note
Apologize for not contributing more to this thread. My ass is working 7 days 10-12 a day & I'm almost useless after.

 

[PP2]

Can you stop now?

Whaaa? Are you okay?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

A little off topic here but being here in the belly of the beast, listening to Eagles' radio and TV coverage, they are nervous. What scares them is that the Pats ability to rush the QB and how Philly had difficulty with it and whether other teams may imitate it. Granted it's preseason with vanilla defenses but(and it kills me to say this) they are saying how lucky the Eagles were that the Pats didn't have that kind of pass rush in February...
It's stating the obvious but a better pass rush will make the DBs job easier.....