Rewatch Thread: Philly @ NE (Preseason #2)

[AlexB]

Davis is getting too much hype, imo. He was only expected to be a mid to late round pick even before his injury. After going undrafted, he was still unsigned for four months even though teams knew they wouldn't even need to waste a roster spot on him his first year. I can't see teams lining up to claim him just because of one preseason game where he did okay but didn't stand out. He would have to really impress these next two game to get picked up.

It always seems like way more people are going to get claimed then actually do. Just last year Karras, Grissom, and others survived waivers. The only major loss was Kenny Moore.

 

[luuked]

Davis is getting too much hype, imo. He was only expected to be a mid to late round pick even before his injury. After going undrafted, he was still unsigned for four months even though teams knew they wouldn't even need to waste a roster spot on him his first year. I can't see teams lining up to claim him just because of one preseason game where he did okay but didn't stand out. He would have to really impress these next two game to get picked up.

It always seems like way more people are going to get claimed then actually do. Just last year Karras, Grissom, and others survived waivers. The only major loss was Kenny Moore.

It is not the tape but his measurables that would make teams take a flyer on him. On paper he is that intriguing.

 

[patfanken]

Ken,

Not to nitpick, but the Bengals whooping actually happened in the preseason of '04.

If that's the case, the point remains true since the 2004 team is the one most Pats fans think was the best team that closed the deal. I guess I just want the excuse to justify my belief that the 2003 was even better. I can't get passed the fact that they beat TEN 10 win teams. Who has come close to doing that.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[PScottman]

What scares them is that the Pats ability to rush the QB and how Philly had difficulty with it and whether other teams may imitate it.

I think it was Foles coming back to his mean average too.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Davis is getting too much hype, imo. He was only expected to be a mid to late round pick even before his injury. After going undrafted, he was still unsigned for four months even though teams knew they wouldn't even need to waste a roster spot on him his first year. I can't see teams lining up to claim him just because of one preseason game where he did okay but didn't stand out. He would have to really impress these next two game to get picked up.

It always seems like way more people are going to get claimed then actually do. Just last year Karras, Grissom, and others survived waivers. The only major loss was Kenny Moore.

I think he’s legit. I think he could have been a 4th rounder if he was not injured. You can find pass rushers in the later rounds. Hopefully we see more in the game against Detroit.

 

[AlexB]

It is not the tape but his measurables that would make teams take a flyer on him. On paper he is that intriguing.

If he were that intriguing based on measurables alone, why did he go undrafted and then go unsigned for four months? Any team could have taken him and put him on NFI for a year, thereby not using a roster cost and also costing little, if any, money. His measurables are the same as when every team passed on him in the draft and UDFA. The only thing that would change his status is preseason performance (which has just been ok so far, nothing special).

He is definitely a solid developmental prospect, but not a lock or even likely to get claimed off waivers at this point.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I'm the biggest Davis fan on the board. I was predicting him as an UDFA for months, and kept Googling him during training camp to see if he had signed with us yet (and I posted the screenshots last year to prove it that he was consistently on my radar), but I even agree with the analysis that he's behind the big four, and maybe behind Grissom, too, due to lack of presence on STs. Where I digress is that I think he can sneak through to the practice squad. We way overrate his performance. Obviously, sacks aren't everything, but look at this list. He's not exactly at the top of the leaderboards:

National Football League Stats - by Player Category | NFL.com

I am almost sure that he's not as highly desired as people think, but that he still has a lot of upside and can develop on the PS. He seems like a reasonable in-house replacement if we lose Flowers in FA next year, although I'm sure he wouldn't be as impactful. Despite inferior technique, he has superior measurables on paper, other than his bad agility marks:









Apparently he's up to 280+ now, which probably hints that they see him as more of an interior presence instead -- maybe the modern Jarvis Green. With his new weight, comparing him against DTs instead of DEs brings his agility to just above average when weighted against other players in the league. Obviously measurables are only one part of the equation, but Davis has some great raw tools to work with here. My guess is that he can sneak through to practice squad since his tape isn't so impressive that another team will snap him up, but he still shows enough promising signs to continue his development for another year.

 

[luuked]

If he were that intriguing based on measurables alone, why did he go undrafted and then go unsigned for four months? Any team could have taken him and put him on NFI for a year, thereby not using a roster cost and also costing little, if any, money. His measurables are the same as when every team passed on him in the draft and UDFA. The only thing that would change his status is preseason performance (which has just been ok so far, nothing special).

He is definitely a solid developmental prospect, but not a lock or even likely to get claimed off waivers at this point.

Why is no one signing Breeland and puts him on NFI/active?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

If he were that intriguing based on measurables alone, why did he go undrafted and then go unsigned for four months? Any team could have taken him and put him on NFI for a year, thereby not using a roster cost and also costing little, if any, money. His measurables are the same as when every team passed on him in the draft and UDFA. The only thing that would change his status is preseason performance (which has just been ok so far, nothing special).

He is definitely a solid developmental prospect, but not a lock or even likely to get claimed off waivers at this point.

Bulging disc caused him to go undrafted. He has ties to the coaching staff here, so that's probably why he chose to sign here, and not elsewhere. I don't think we need to interpret the timeline of his signing (or not signing elsewhere) as a damning mark against his ability.

He's got potential, he just needs development.

 

[luuked]

I'm the biggest Davis fan on the board. I was predicting him as an UDFA for months, and kept Googling him during training camp to see if he had signed with us yet (and I posted the screenshots last year to prove it that he was consistently on my radar), but I even agree with the analysis that he's behind the big four, and maybe behind Grissom, too, due to lack of presence on STs. Where I digress is that I think he can sneak through to the practice squad. We way overrate his performance. Obviously, sacks aren't everything, but look at this list. He's not exactly at the top of the leaderboards:

National Football League Stats - by Player Category | NFL.com

I am almost sure that he's not as highly desired as people think, but that he still has a lot of upside and can develop on the PS. He seems like a reasonable in-house replacement if we lose Flowers in FA next year, although I'm sure he wouldn't be as impactful. Despite inferior technique, he has superior measurables on paper, other than his bad agility marks:


View attachment 21023


View attachment 21024



Apparently he's up to 280+ now, which probably hints that they see him as more of an interior presence instead -- maybe the modern Jarvis Green. With his new weight, comparing him against DTs instead of DEs brings his agility to just above average when weighted against other players in the league. Obviously measurables are only one part of the equation, but Davis has some great raw tools to work with here. My guess is that he can sneak through to practice squad since his tape isn't so impressive that another team will snap him up, but he still shows enough promising signs to continue his development for another year.


View attachment 21025

The question is if you really want to risk it. All it takes is just one team and given how many Pats disciples are running teams around the league I am sure there is additional attention on some of the players we release.

 

[AlexB]

Why is no one signing Breeland and puts him on NFI/active?

He is probably expecting too much money. Guys like Davis who didn't get drafted and are unproven don't have the option to reject offers in hope of a better deal

 

[AlexB]

The question is if you really want to risk it. All it takes is just one team and given how many Pats disciples are running teams around the league I am sure there is additional attention on some of the players we release.

They're going to have to risk someone. Even if they carry 9 DL, 1 of Butler, VV, or Davis will need to go through waivers. Butler will almost certainly get picked up and VV probably will (if he's healthy). Each of them have had their ups and downs in the NFL, but are much more proven than Davis. If we carry 10 DL, then someone promising at another position gets exposed to waivers.

 

[long distance]

I don't understand how this re-watch thread turned into draft talk. We have NFL tape. Lets watch K.Davis tape.

First of all Keionta Davis already looks like an NFL player - not only on paper . on the field as well (despite losing all offseason, preseason, season and postseason last yr; at least Rivers had all offseason and a part of preseason practicing on NFL field - and reportedly struggled in TC; T.Flowers was a different man his 2nd yr etc..).

Here he is with the starters on both sides - 2nd snap of the game. Strong @Los, solid contain, mature dominating play till the finish imo on Crossen's monster TFL


Pats normally like to rush one DE and let other play more contain. Solid contain here by Davis, nothing special, but look at his mature reaction at the end blocking to prevent the chase after Bentley.


Here he is part of #1 GL D helping the stuff at 1yd line.
The line is Davis-Shelton-Guy-Clayborn. No Wise or Rivers. This is no small thing. BB is big on GL D.



He doesn't have the burst and technique of top 4 rushers . but also his role is more of contain. I don't recall him losing the edge or gap. He played mature, focused, showed big motor and enough strength. He is not a disruptive force at this point . but with all his setbacks he is already showing he can play his role with the big boys..

 

[ralmat55]

The reason he signed 4 months after the draft is he would have counted against the 90 man roster. Why use a space on a guy recovering from surgery when you can just reach an understanding with the player and officially sign him when you’re ready?

You got to laugh at the “experts “ who watch a guy like this and nitpick his performance. It was the first significant number of snaps he’s gotten as pro after a whole year off recovering from his injury. Would you expect perfection?

He held his own playing the run and pass against a pretty good Philly 1st team OL. Heck, we could have used him last year. If he stays healthy, he’ll be the 2nd best DE after Flowers by the end of the season. If you release him, he’ll be gone faster than you can say Lions.

 

[Ring 6]

If that's the case, the point remains true since the 2004 team is the one most Pats fans think was the best team that closed the deal. I guess I just want the excuse to justify my belief that the 2003 was even better. I can't get passed the fact that they beat TEN 10 win teams. Who has come close to doing that.

Thanks for the correction.

I agree the 2003 team was the best patriot team ever.
And I base that on what actually happened on the field, not hypothetical comparisons.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't understand how this re-watch thread turned into draft talk. We have NFL tape. Lets watch K.Davis tape.

First of all Keionta Davis already looks like an NFL player - not only on paper . on the field as well (despite losing all offseason, preseason, season and postseason last yr; at least Rivers had all offseason and a part of preseason practicing on NFL field - and reportedly struggled in TC; T.Flowers was a different man his 2nd yr etc..).

Here he is with the starters on both sides - 2nd snap of the game. Strong @Los, solid contain, mature dominating play till the finish imo on Crossen's monster TFL


Pats normally like to rush one DE and let other play more contain. Solid contain here by Davis, nothing special, but look at his mature reaction at the end blocking to prevent the chase after Bentley.


Here he is part of #1 GL D helping the stuff at 1yd line.
The line is Davis-Shelton-Guy-Clayborn. No Wise or Rivers. This is no small thing. BB is big on GL D.



He doesn't have the burst and technique of top 4 rushers . but also his role is more of contain. I don't recall him losing the edge or gap. He played mature, focused, showed big motor and enough strength. He is not a disruptive force at this point . but with all his setbacks he is already showing he can play his role with the big boys..

nice job. One thing I saw,
I don’t think on play 3 he was instructed to hestitate, I think he bit on the play action .

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

One of his better pass rush reps.

 

[AlexB]

I like Davis too and think he has a lot of promise. I just think that he would clear waivers (unless if he looks much better in the next 2 preseason games). There's always way fewer waiver claims than most people expect and most teams have promising players who get cut.

If Davis were that sought after just based on measurables, another team would have grabbed him late in the draft or given him a UDFA contract earlier than August (perhaps with a little bit of guaranteed money to get him to sign) instead of waiting and potentially letting someone else poach him (he had no guaranteed money on his contract). Yes, it's possible someone claims him since you can never predict what other teams do, but I have a hard time believing he is so sought after given his circumstances.

On the other hand, if Adam Butler is released, he would almost certainly get picked up.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm the biggest Davis fan on the board. I was predicting him as an UDFA for months, and kept Googling him during training camp to see if he had signed with us yet (and I posted the screenshots last year to prove it that he was consistently on my radar), but I even agree with the analysis that he's behind the big four, and maybe behind Grissom, too, due to lack of presence on STs. Where I digress is that I think he can sneak through to the practice squad. We way overrate his performance. Obviously, sacks aren't everything, but look at this list. He's not exactly at the top of the leaderboards:

National Football League Stats - by Player Category | NFL.com

I am almost sure that he's not as highly desired as people think, but that he still has a lot of upside and can develop on the PS. He seems like a reasonable in-house replacement if we lose Flowers in FA next year, although I'm sure he wouldn't be as impactful. Despite inferior technique, he has superior measurables on paper, other than his bad agility marks:


View attachment 21023


View attachment 21024



Apparently he's up to 280+ now, which probably hints that they see him as more of an interior presence instead -- maybe the modern Jarvis Green. With his new weight, comparing him against DTs instead of DEs brings his agility to just above average when weighted against other players in the league. Obviously measurables are only one part of the equation, but Davis has some great raw tools to work with here. My guess is that he can sneak through to practice squad since his tape isn't so impressive that another team will snap him up, but he still shows enough promising signs to continue his development for another year.


View attachment 21025

An undersized (by a lot) DT with average agility for his position is not a complement.

 

[Oswlek]

If Davis were that sought after just based on measurables, another team would have grabbed him late in the draft or given him a UDFA contract earlier than August

Isn't it possible that NE and Davis had already reached a mutual arrangement, and Davis was just waiting for the formal offer, knowing he could follow up with other teams if NE reneged on the deal? This may sound risky, but how big a risk was it really when both sides knew his health wasnt going to change much by August?