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Content Post Idle thoughts - Preseason- defense/ST's edition

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sun
Oct 31st

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

betterthanthealternative

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Is the science clear on that? My impression is that it’s not, but I haven’t studied it closely. Do you have any references I could go study, please?

There is some clear science that indicates, for a brief window after recovery, the antibodies are high enough that a vaccine won't necessarily boost the defenses for the immediate future.

The idea that having the disease is a substitute for having a vaccination is propaganda, put forth by people who are not motivated by the health of the public at large.

I had COVID in December. In January, I had a moderate level of antibodies. By April, when my opportunity to get the vaccine came up, the antibodies were down to about 15% of where they were in January.

When my opportunity for a booster comes up, I'll have the antibodies checked again, out of curiosity.
 

Joker

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hate to break in on the ever emerging Covid discussion but I just got some real bad news...the recent humptycane knocked my TV out with a surge. Now I got the dreaded NOVID.Please, no prayers....but you can send monetary contributions to Joe Weasel @ sukrbrnevryminute.net
 

n6249c

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hate to break in on the ever emerging Covid discussion but I just got some real bad news...the recent humptycane knocked my TV out with a surge. Now I got the dreaded NOVID.Please, no prayers....but you can send monetary contributions to Joe Weasel @ sukrbrnevryminute.net
No prayers, at your request. But my thoughts are with you.
 

Hyped

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Comments:

1.) Let's get back to the D. Screw the COVID talk....and yes....get vaxxed and wear a damn mask. OK, I have said my piece.

2.) Not worried about Gilmore. He isn't "holding out" and like someone else alluded to in this thread...I think he's milking his Pro-Bowl status a bit...and just taking his sweet time to get back on the field. I don't mind though...he's someone I'd want to be kept in bubble wrap. Pay.The.Man. And he'll be there on Sundays taking away the #1 receiving threat on one side of the field.

3.) The front 7 is VASTLY better this year by any rational measure. Yeah, I don't expect the run D to be an impenetrable wall in week 1 nor all year...but I do expect the run D to get better as the front 7 plus our safeties get into cohesion. I think by November...we'll be shutting down rushing offenses and forcing teams to pass the ball in inclement weather versus our superior secondary.... looking forward to all the pick sixes, baby!

4.) ST's? You are worried? I am not even worried. Look at Slater in practices...he isn't even going 100% yet. Ditto for Justin Bethel, Cody Davis, Brandon Bolden, Brandon King, and the plethora of ST specialists we have on the team. And by now (you posted this thread on Monday), you know that Folk has returned to practice along with Cardona...that aspect of the operation should be better. And I expect us to block better for Gunner in week 1. We still have one of the best ST units in the league....... I'd love to see our return game be even more explosive...but it's harder to return the ball in the NFL these days than it used to be. But coverage-wise....and kicking...not worried a bit...er...unless Folk needs to hit a 45+ yarder....
 

patfanken

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Phillips is the best secondary pickup since Harrison?
Better than Gilmore and revis? Uhh
Yeah, You have a point there. ;) Gilmore no question, but Revis was only here for a year,. I would have been more accurate if I had said, "the best safety pick up since Harrison.
 

KDPPatsfan85

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I believe Nordin will go on the practice squad and be stashed there, unless Folk comes in and kicks like he has at times in the past. Nordin's struggles last game will hopefully allow him to make it there.

I am hopeful they will sign Gilmore to a 2 year extension.

Your rant about Covid excludes the current fact that the vaccinated can still catch and spread the disease, plus Cam already had the disease so he is probably more protected than most of the people who have had the shot.
Just stop this. It is intentional misinformation, misleading, and misplaced.
Here We Go Eye Roll GIF
 

woolster22

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There is some clear science that indicates, for a brief window after recovery, the antibodies are high enough that a vaccine won't necessarily boost the defenses for the immediate future.

The idea that having the disease is a substitute for having a vaccination is propaganda, put forth by people who are not motivated by the health of the public at large.

I had COVID in December. In January, I had a moderate level of antibodies. By April, when my opportunity to get the vaccine came up, the antibodies were down to about 15% of where they were in January.

When my opportunity for a booster comes up, I'll have the antibodies checked again, out of curiosity.
The propaganda is calling it a vaccine. Vaccine's prevent infection and kill sales. Every drug dealer knows you get them on the come back. This is why we have [not]"Vaccine Lotteries" and use the MSM to brainwash the public into thinking a wholely experimental class of therapies was the only answer.

It isnt.



Imagine that! Remember when we thought covid targeted the lungs? Way back when this 'vaccine' was first created to treat the Cov-19 virus? What number is at the end now (cov-2)? Why are scientific names for viruses significant? When was the delta varient (which had 74% breakthrough rate in Ma first week of June, IIRC) first id'd? Google is your friend. I gave the hard answers for free.

The propaganda is blaming the unvaccinated.

The propoganda is altering the definition of vaccine to include an experimental therapy, never shown to prevent infection, in order to authorize emergency use and then full blown approval, before clinical trials have finished running (that's you, @patfanken and anyone else who 'did the right thing' - you are the trial group).

Funny how the talk of mandates and forced approvals starts around the time these studies see a little press.

Remember when government needed explicit authority to do something?

#MyBodyMyChoice, or does my Y chromosome invalidate the claim to righteous indignation regarding my personal temple?

Further, to the OP who can't understand the gall of the folks who don't trust the FDA (opiate addiction syndrome?! Do you think there was a test case for whether the doc script being written in crayon impacted the wizar-doc's ability to overcome an opiate receptor binding with an opiate? Pencil? What if the doctor wasn't really a doctor, but he had a nice watch and used an expensive pen? All studies need placebo groups), why should any reasonably healthy person under 50-55(?), when looking at the lethality rates, feel obligated to submit to injection with not just an experimental vaccine, but an experimental vaccine produced with an entirely new and until covid, experimental medical technology?

You grandstand on top of false trust.

The medical community interacts with the public daily, yet a large contigent refuse to take this unknown.

Just another means to divide us amongst ourselves and ignore the fact it would be easier to list functional federal government bodies than the dysfunctional.

The list goes as follows:





If you think I missed something, feel free to mention it, and I'll explain why you're wrong to suggest anything. FDA, FCC, congress, senate, [in]Justice Systems and now even our military are woefully incompetent.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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Imagine that! Remember when we thought covid targeted the lungs? Way back when this 'vaccine' was first created to treat the Cov-19 virus? What number is at the end now (cov-2)? Why are scientific names for viruses significant? When was the delta varient (which had 74% breakthrough rate in Ma first week of June, IIRC) first id'd? Google is your friend. I gave the hard answers for free.

The propaganda is blaming the unvaccinated.

I clicked on your links and read the articles.

The first is an observation that blood clotting may have a higher presence in people with long Covid, though there isn’t really any conclusion beyond that the scientists want to study it further. There isn’t even a studied causation link. There’s no claim…it’s a nothing-burger.

The second is about a common medication called Hydroxychloroquine Ivermectin Fenofibrate which can be effective against Covid based on lab testing. Join the club. The only real world testing was based on observation of only fifteen patients, in an uncontrolled environment. It may be the new fad for moronic conspiracy theorists a helpful therapeutic.

Imagine if the substance in these were 1/100th of the sizzle that you bring with your hip, outside-the-box, 5D chess presentation.
 
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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
There is some clear science that indicates, for a brief window after recovery, the antibodies are high enough that a vaccine won't necessarily boost the defenses for the immediate future.

The idea that having the disease is a substitute for having a vaccination is propaganda, put forth by people who are not motivated by the health of the public at large.

I had COVID in December. In January, I had a moderate level of antibodies. By April, when my opportunity to get the vaccine came up, the antibodies were down to about 15% of where they were in January.

When my opportunity for a booster comes up, I'll have the antibodies checked again, out of curiosity.

For the record I'm pro-vaccines but just as a FYI you're not going to have high antibody titers for everything you've been vaccinated for or had a disease before. That's not efficient to have a ton of antibodies just floating around your body all the time for every possible disease. It doesn't work that way. What you want is immune memory. Meaning, if a disease antigen re-enters, your immune cells recognize and then send a message for your antibody factories to ramp up production. So seeing antibody ramp up means you're all good. Seeing low or no antibody levels isn't a bad thing during normal state. I wish media heads would say something about this. It makes no sense to be constantly checking antibody titers. It literally means nothing for a kid to get the best pediatric vaccine, and then try to check the antibody titer level 6 months later, means absolutely nothing.
 
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PScottman

In the Starting Line-Up
3.) The front 7 is VASTLY better this year by any rational measure. Yeah, I don't expect the run D to be an impenetrable wall in week 1 nor all year...but I do expect the run D to get better as the front 7 plus our safeties get into cohesion. I think by November...we'll be shutting down rushing offenses and forcing teams to pass the ball in inclement weather versus our superior secondary.... looking forward to all the pick sixes, baby!
While there remain a couple teams designed to need an "old fashioned" full of beef run stopping (and I use that word specifically) defense; the numbers overall don't support aligning the majority of your defensive cap space to that end. Instead teams have to be able to get 4, 5, and even 6 viable DBs on the field at once to slow the skill position players in the passing offenses that dominate the league's best teams.

So teams have to try and get DTs/DEs adept enough at both run and pass defense instead of true pure specialists (which due to the explosion of TEs that can do both increases the exposure of said specialists to exploitation in the part of the game they're weaker in). They want run slowing defenses - the Bucs had the best YPC defense last year at 3.6 - over half a yard more YPC average than the best team in 2001 (San Diego).


So that's the measuring stick for the Pats this year - have they gotten "better enough" where they're able to slow the run versus the good teams instead of being gashed by EVERY team's running game like last year?
 
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mgteich

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I would imagine it comes down to the language in the contract. I have friends at large companies who are all being required to get the vaccination or they will be terminated. So it wouldn't be anything other than a contract thing.
The Supreme Court has ruled that companies can require all their employees to be vaccinated or face dismissal.

Unless the NFL prohibit such a rule, I would think a team could require all of its QB's to be vaccinated. If it were my choice, I would be starting Jones, and have Cam on his own bench.

At very least, the team should have a rule whereby any player not vaccinated should be restricted in movements when at home, in the same way as when on the road.
 

One-If-By-Sea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
The Supreme Court has ruled that companies can require all their employees to be vaccinated or face dismissal.

Unless the NFL prohibit such a rule, I would think a team could require all of its QB's to be vaccinated. If it were my choice, I would be starting Jones, and have Cam on his own bench.

At very least, the team should have a rule whereby any player not vaccinated should be restricted in movements when at home, in the same way as when on the road.

The players have a union. Maybe you are not familiar with that.
 

mgteich

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The players have a union. Maybe you are not familiar with that.
your point?

Does the CBA forbid teams from restricting the unvaccinated?

Does the CBA require such rules be approved by the union?

I would point out that 28 teams have over 89% vaccinated, with one team at 100%. The NFL has said that it will very strict this year with regard to consequences for those COVID infections of anyone not vaccinated. I suspect that if there had been full FDA approval before the NFL set the 2021 rules, vaccinations would have been required.
==============
I would point out that the risk to the team is great. If Cam tests positive, the whole QB room will be excluded for a time from practices and games.
At the very least, Cam shouldn't be attending QB and team offense meetings in person.
 

gitgronked82

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Yeah, You have a point there. ;) Gilmore no question, but Revis was only here for a year,. I would have been more accurate if I had said, "the best safety pick up since Harrison.
Personally I would say the one year of revis was incredibly impactful and more important than what I think phillips’ whole time here will be.
Also in terms of safeties, what about bringing Chung back for 2014-2019? That was a pretty big get imo.
Anyways phillips is great to have :)
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Is the science clear on that?
Initial antibody levels from the vaccine are higher on average than in convalescent serum from the disease (which is also more variable), but the antibody levels from getting the disease seem to be a bit more persistent. So after about 6 months levels are pretty similar.

But from a football perspective, even a passing contact by Cam during the season keeps him out for a minimum of five days. That's likely to happen at some point, and would clearly lead to Mac as the starter that week. So Mac must be very happy that Cam is being obstinate here.
 

woolster22

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I clicked on your links and read the articles.

The first is an observation that blood clotting may have a higher presence in people with long Covid, though there isn’t really any conclusion beyond that the scientists want to study it further. There isn’t even a studied causation link. There’s no claim…it’s a nothing-burger.

The second is about a common medication called Hydroxychloroquine Ivermectin Fenofibrate which can be effective against Covid based on lab testing. Join the club. The only real world testing was based on observation of only fifteen patients, in an uncontrolled environment. It may be the new fad for moronic conspiracy theorists a helpful therapeutic.

Imagine if the substance in these were 1/100th of the sizzle that you bring with your hip, outside-the-box, 5D chess presentation.
Nothing? Understanding how a virus actually attacks our systems so we can properly id effective treatments and maybe even a real vaccine is a nothing burger?

Now why is it that cheap, proven safe, oral medications go through the usual channels of clinicals in penn/Israel, while an experimental tech gets pushed onto the public with a target rate of 70%?

Follow the money.

Now if said causation of long Covid proves to be legit, it would make a lot of sense for something from these classes of drugs to be effective. If it handles cov-2 (delta and lamdba) as effectively as cov-19, it is cheap and proven safe. Two things we cannot say about mRNA therapies.

Do you usually volunteer for medical trials? Why not?
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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Nothing? Understanding how a virus actually attacks our systems so we can properly id effective treatments and maybe even a real vaccine is a nothing burger?
Lol…you have no idea what you’re talking about. None. Neither of your links relate to how the virus attacks the body. One link notes that blood clotting appears to be more prevalent in cases where long-term Covid develops. And yes, nothing burgers…neither study offers anything other than extremely early stage hypothesis.

Did you actually think Covid does not attack the respiratory system because blood clotting was observed in long Covid?
Now why is it that cheap, proven safe, oral medications go through the usual channels of clinicals in penn/Israel, while an experimental tech gets pushed onto the public with a target rate of 70%?
mRNA is not experimental…the specific Covid strain was merely adapted to a technology that existed for years.
Follow the money.

Now if said causation of long Covid proves to be legit, it would make a lot of sense for something from these classes of drugs to be effective. If it handles cov-2 (delta and lamdba) as effectively as cov-19, it is cheap and proven safe.
You’re so confused…mixing up the two studies. The long Covid blood clotting has nothing to do with fenofibrate. The if here is remarkable…neither of your solutions has even been given a clinical trial yet, and the vaccine was released six months ago. Lol…a conspiracy theory because the medical community opted for an existing vaccine rather than something that would be discovered in the future?
Two things we cannot say about mRNA therapies.
Hmmmm…vaccines aren’t cheap (free) or proven safe (negligible death rates or side effects.). Got it.
Do you usually volunteer for medical trials? Why not?
First time. Why not? Because there isn’t a typically a pandemic that makes the necessary long-term trials impossible to clear within a sensible timeframe. This is why many times in history, vaccines have needed to be rolled out quicker. It’s a pragmatic considerstion that you take on small risk when the alternative is a greater risk.

You should probably stop pretending to be a philosopher/doctor at this point. Your jig is up…you truly are dangerously misinformed.
 
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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Comments:

1.) Let's get back to the D. Screw the COVID talk....and yes....get vaxxed and wear a damn mask. OK, I have said my piece.

Why the FUKC should I wear a fukcing mask if I've already been fukcing vaccinated?

OK I've said my piece too... See how that works?
 
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