Rappaport: Welker still waiting for the Pats' first offer

[Brady6]

No one has made a huge offer to Welker. Welker might accept an approximately equal amount from another team. There is no real reason to believe that Welker would like to stay under whatever the patriots wish to pay.

Why wouldn't he? And who is to say our offer isn't the best even with it being lower than desired? I think you are over thinking the situation. Welker has no reason to be angry with the Patriots he made more money than he ever could of dreamed because of this team.

 

[Deus Irae]

No one has made a huge offer to Welker. Welker might accept an approximately equal amount from another team. There is no real reason to believe that Welker would like to stay under whatever the patriots wish to pay.

Why would you say something like this when the reporting on the Welker situation has been so spotty, to put it kindly? We have absolutely no idea what the hell is going on with Welker.

So far, this is basically playing out the way Moss '08 played out. The only real question is whether or not the ending will be the same.

 

[mgteich]

I strongly disagree with your comments.

BTW, I do still think it likely that the patriots will re-sign Welker.

Welker has no reason to be angry with the Patriots he made more money than he ever could of dreamed because of this team.

 

[supafly]

No one has made a huge offer to Welker. Welker might accept an approximately equal amount from another team. There is no real reason to believe that Welker would like to stay under whatever the patriots wish to pay.

I think it's a glass 1/2 full vs glass 1/2 empty kind of thing, mgteich.

If you're an optimist you feel somewhat relieved that Welker didn't receive some of the early splash money that some here thought. Remember all of the "4/40" or "5/50" talk, and how ridiculous many of us felt that was? It would appear that those numbers aren't anywhere in play for his services, nor will they be. There's still the potential for a dummy year to be thrown on that makes the deal appear much better than it is, so he may still get a 3/27--3/30 deal or something like that. The point is it could be viewed as a positive.

However if you're a pessimist or simply concerned about the WR options like myself much more than the popular choice of CB the past few weeks, you'll still be pointing out your exact words. They haven't been able to come to terms in the past 2 yrs, so why should we feel positive now? There is also the lack of any noise or hints of moves on any of the other receiving options that would lead us to even feel like their a55es were covered in case he does leave.

Most of us have felt that a 3/24 deal would be plenty fair and reasonable to get a deal done, however it does not appear that the Pats have offered such a deal in my opinion. That said they are very much still in play for his services, so that should tell us approximately where his potential deal lies, and it doesn't appear to be anywhere close to what many thought.

 

[mgteich]

There's bad blood. Welker hasn't been happy since last year's debacle. HOWEVER, Welker might again accept patriot actions and terms. It does indeed seem the most likely outcome.

Why would you say something like this when the reporting on the Welker situation has been so spotty, to put it kindly? We have absolutely no idea what the hell is going on with Welker.

So far, this is basically playing out the way Moss '08 played out. The only real question is whether or not the ending will be the same.

 

[Brady6]

I strongly disagree with your comments.

BTW, I do still think it likely that the patriots will re-sign Welker.

You think another coach would of had the guts or intelligence to design his offense around a 5'9 180lb slot receiver? Because I don't and I think if Welker had remained in Miami or gone else where he'd of at best never been more than what he was viewed as when Moss was here a secondary option who benefited from outside receivers.

 

[Deus Irae]

There's bad blood. Welker hasn't been happy since last year's debacle. HOWEVER, Welker might again accept patriot actions and terms. It does indeed seem the most likely outcome.

Based upon what? Certainly not anything that's happened in the last 4 days......

 

[supafly]

So far, this is basically playing out the way Moss '08 played out. The only real question is whether or not the ending will be the same.

I think in that situation they at least offered him something that could be considered "reasonable and fair" at 3/27 or 9 million per year considering what the market was in early 2008.

Obviously I understand the similarities and your overall point, but I'm questioning if the Patriots have actually offered him something that could be viewed as market value or not? Apparently they feel they have. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

In Welker's case I am assuming something to be considered "fair" at approx. 7.5 a year aav on a 3 yr term. I would think that 3/22 would be "fair" in this instance, but that is obviously just my personal thought. FWIW--I was at 3/24 the whole time, but have moved 0.5 million down per year due to what I perceive as a drier market.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, the re-signing of Welker has gone form 90% (when displeasure with Lloyd came out) to "the most likely outcome" In the past 4 days. That is not a good situation for the patriots.

Based upon what? Certainly not anything that's happened in the last 4 days......

 

[Deus Irae]

I think in that situation they at least offered him something that could be considered "reasonable and fair" at 3/27 or 9 million per year considering what the market was in early 2008.

Obviously I understand the similarities and your overall point, but I'm questioning if the Patriots have actually offered him something that could be viewed as market value or not? Apparently they feel they have. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

In Welker's case I am assuming something to be considered "fair" at approx. 7.5 a year aav on a 3 yr term. I would think that 3/22 would be "fair" in this instance, but that is obviously just my personal thought.

I don't know that what they offered Welker is fair. I do know that they offered Moss less than he was worth, waited while his side blustered and threatened to leave, then tossed in a sweetener to lock him up, even though the deal was still less than it should have been.

I don't know that the sweetener will work with Welker. I'm worried that he'll smarten up.

 

[Brady6]

Based upon what? Certainly not anything that's happened in the last 4 days......

I think that was a media debacle. Welker barely played in the preseason and was not deserving of playing time over Edelman. He is a professional athlete he understands what is expected of him and what happens if he doesn't meet the requirements. I don't view Welker as the type of player or person to make a decision based on his coaches coaching him and holding him accountable.

 

[supafly]

IMHO, the re-signing of Welker has gone form 90% (when displeasure with Lloyd came out) to "the most likely outcome" In the past 4 days. That is not a good situation for the patriots.

I think it may be difficult to determine how bad the situation is for the Pats, since they obviously have a much better read on the actual facts, but I'd agree with you that it's certainly less than ideal--that's for sure.

I am not having quite the same confidence level that you have with your "most likely outcome" opinion. I suppose if I had to put it in numbers I'd say I were 60/40 confident, although that would possibly qualify as a likely outcome by your definition.

 

[Joker]

exactly how is the first 8 hours of this free agency period "bad" for the Patriots vis a vis Welker?

deals left and right...all positions, all kinds of players...leaks prior to signings commonplace...what team is "in the hunt" or "looking to sign" Wes Welker?...maybe I'm not excavating every shred of data at every known media outlet as a true "knower of things" should be doing...but...it LOOKS like the Patriots are in a position of strength going forward...not weakness...I'm thinking 21 million/3years...18 guaranteed ...maybe even less as THEIR jump off point...this is cold hard business...what anybody "likes" or "dislikes" about each other really doesn't play a part in any of this...as has been shown repeatedly the past decade.

 

[Danger Zone]

As far as your comments on the deep threat, Welker played with Moss from 2007 thru early 2010, so I don't know how much different he'd be-

That combo set new NFL records for scoring touchdowns. Granted even an aging but motivated Moss was better (and would be better) than 90% of the WRs out there right now. But Welker absolutely contributed to the success of Brady to Moss. Teams can shut down our offense (enough to outscore us) if all they have to seriously worry about is Welker, one of our two TE superstars and however many decent to meh receivers we are fielding.

I actually really like Lloyd, but he's not fast and hes not a deep threat.

-but the offense itself could be better this time around with having the 2 TE's to take advantage of mismatches.

Heres hoping Jake Ballard makes a full recovery from his knee injury and we get to add a 3rd TE to that equation (no offense to Fells or the Hooman).

 

[mgteich]

Welker might actually prefer to play for another team. We keep on talking about how much the patriots should offer as a first offer, or how much they should sweeten the offer. Maybe, just maybe, Welker has had enough. Just maybe, he will go if he can find a reasonable elsewhere.

Alternatively, maybe the patriots will match whatever Welker can get from someone else, and Welker will happy to come back.

exactly how is the first 8 hours of this free agency period "bad" for the Patriots vis a vis Welker?

deals left and right...all positions, all kinds of players...leaks prior to signings commonplace...what team is "in the hunt" or "looking to sign" Wes Welker?...maybe I'm not excavating every shred of data at every known media outlet as a true "knower of things" should be doing...but...it LOOKS like the Patriots are in a position of strength going forward...not weakness...I'm thinking 21 million/3years...18 guaranteed ...maybe even less as THEIR jump off point...this is cold hard business...what anybody "likes" or "dislikes" about each other really doesn't play a part in any of this...as has been shown repeatedly the past decade.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Guys, you need to remember one thing. He now has a wife thats at home whispering in his ear, "baby, its too cold in Foxboro. The Raiders will pay you more, and its warmer there"

Never underestimate the power of a woman

 

[Belichick8384]

Teams can shut down our offense (enough to outscore us) if all they have to seriously worry about is Welker, one of our two TE superstars and however many decent to meh receivers we are fielding.

I actually really like Lloyd, but he's not fast and hes not a deep threat.

Not to mention the dropped passes by Lloyd. That was quite possibly the most frustrating thing about the PATS' season this passed year, the dropped passes. It wasn't just Lloyd, but Lloyd didn't know how to keep his eyes on the pass throughout and think ahead. PATS need a smarter receiver with quick hands.

Heres hoping Jake Ballard makes a full recovery from his knee injury and we get to add a 3rd TE to that equation (no offense to Fells or the Hooman).

It would be nice to see some more depth to the TE position. Especially if Gronkowski gets injured again...

Welker might actually prefer to play for another team. We keep on talking about how much the patriots should offer as a first offer, or how much they should sweeten the offer. Maybe, just maybe, Welker has had enough. Just maybe, he will go if he can find a reasonable elsewhere.

Alternatively, maybe the patriots will match whatever Welker can get from someone else, and Welker will happy to come back.

I don't know a lot about the Welker situation this offseason, but I know it doesn't look nearly as assured as it did a year or two ago. Welker just might actually walk away this time. I'm split on whether or not this will be as devastating to the team as people say it would be. On one hand, the WR corps could lose what depth it has left and the PATS would be unable to find a good lineup to improve the offense. On the other hand, the PATS could gain from Welker leaving, and possibly find a WR or two that can emulate Welker's abilities and execute them in a more positive way for the team.

Only time will tell...

 

[Danger Zone]

Guys, you need to remember one thing. He now has a wife thats at home whispering in his ear, "baby, its too cold in Foxboro. The Raiders will pay you more, and its warmer there"

Never underestimate the power of a woman

She's probably saying things like: 'My husband can not f****ing catch the ball and throw the ball at the same time. I can't believe how many times they overthrew the ball.'

 

[mgteich]

More depth at TE?

We have Gronkowski and Hernandez as our starters.
We have Fells, Ballard and Hooman all competing for backup positions.

It would be nice to see some more depth to the TE position. Especially if Gronkowski gets injured again...

 

[Danger Zone]

More depth at TE?

We have Gronkowski and Hernandez as our starters.
We have Fells, Ballard and Hooman all competing for backup positions.

We lost one Superbowl because we didn't have a viable backup for an injured Gronkowski. Its my personal opinion we lost the potential for another because he was then out for the rest of the playoffs with another injury (Im not implying he's injury prone, but these things happen). Its my opinion that another big catching TE might have split the difference for us.