Post-Game: Patriots vs. New Orleans

[Mack Herron]

Some comments on the comments.....and some questions too

1. I was in Trenton NJ for the last 3 days and didn't get to see the game.... though I did get to drive by exit 16W twice.

2. This is the first of 4 exhibition games, and it is hard to evaluate people when there is no game plan on either side of the ball and a lot of people are playing who won't be on the roster come September. Also keep in mind that unlike any other time, preseason games are all about evaluating the INDIVIDUAL rather than the team as a whole, especially the first 2 games. PLEASE keep in mind, that there is NO other team game that we watch where the individual's success is so dependant on so many others.

3. Before any of you get all crazed about JG, I would remind people that Matt Cassell didn't lead the offense to a single TD during the entirety of the 2008 preseason....not ONE. And if I recall correctly he got a LOT of playing time with the #1's. So it was no wonder that many were shocked that team not only kept him on the roster, but that he was Brady's back up

4. Someone mentioned that the Pats were running a 'zone blocking' scheme on Thursday. Is that true? IIRC, the Pats under BB and Scar have always been a power blocking team. Can anyone get some info one way or the other.

5. It is my belief that the success or failure of the first 4 regular season games is going to depend on how the OL is doing, so I'd like to know how well JG was protected. The only plays I got to see in the ESPN highlights was the dump off to White, and the play where he was sacked. Though I thought it was interesting to see the host trying to lead Damion Woody into saying something negative about his performance. And almost equally interesting to see Woody not falling for it and saying something very neutral and realistic. I haven't watched any ESPN for a LONG time.....and now that I'm home, I won't have to anymore.

6. Very happy to see good things said about Sheard and Flowers. Should I be concerned about NOT hearing anything at all about Chris Long?

7. Glad that the run D looked improved.

8. I really don't care much about the DB's playing in vanilla defenses

9. a few more things on JG.

a. I think it is worth repeating something I've said before. JG may ultimately end up being an all pro QB. But he isn't that NOW. He will not only be filling in for the GOAT, he hasn't started an NFL game in his very brief 2+ seasons in the league. So forget about all the assets he DIDN'T have on the field, all I am going to look for from JG is that he be better next game than he was in the last. And from what I gathered THAT bar isn't too high.

b. Thursday was the FIRST time he saw a live full effort pass rush this pre-season, so it will take some time for him to get a feel for the 'actual' speed of the game, and that can only come from reps, reps, and more reps.

c. For a any NFL player, but most especially for QB's; the most important aspects of the game are confidence and experience.....and you can only get the former from the latter.

10. The Bears are coming into town next after just a horrible 20-0 outing in their first exhibition. That leads to believe that they might have a very different agenda for this upcoming game. They could feel the need to game plan more and/or keep their starters in longer in order to have a more respectable showing against the Pats. They are already coming off a bad year and my feel the need to placate their fan base.

The Pats on the other hand have nothing to prove and BB will prepare the team solely for the purposes to getting to see what he and staff want to see and evaluate, regardless of what the outcome ends up being. Don't forget how meaningless these outcomes are. I STILL can't forget the brutal ass whipping the team got from the Bengals one preseason. IIRC, it was 30-0 at halftime. The year, I think, was 2003

11. Since I believe the OL is the MOST important aspect of the team to follow. I have this request of someone who taped this game, especially someone who knows anything about OL play. Could you go back and look at the OL play in the first half and give me your opinions? Thanks

Good OL review here Ken. Not encouraging.

http://www.patspropaganda.com/patriots-saints-offensive-line-film-review/#more-31446

 

[Family]

I agree that Jimmy G doesn't appear to have great pocket presence, but why can't he fake on play action better? I know there is no running game, but he moves so slow and the fake is pathetic. It takes forever for Jimmy to do play action. This is his third year. There's no excuse that play action should not be better.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Some comments on the comments.....and some questions too

1. I was in Trenton NJ for the last 3 days and didn't get to see the game.... though I did get to drive by exit 16W twice.

2. This is the first of 4 exhibition games, and it is hard to evaluate people when there is no game plan on either side of the ball and a lot of people are playing who won't be on the roster come September. Also keep in mind that unlike any other time, preseason games are all about evaluating the INDIVIDUAL rather than the team as a whole, especially the first 2 games. PLEASE keep in mind, that there is NO other team game that we watch where the individual's success is so dependant on so many others.

3. Before any of you get all crazed about JG, I would remind people that Matt Cassell didn't lead the offense to a single TD during the entirety of the 2008 preseason....not ONE. And if I recall correctly he got a LOT of playing time with the #1's. So it was no wonder that many were shocked that team not only kept him on the roster, but that he was Brady's back up

4. Someone mentioned that the Pats were running a 'zone blocking' scheme on Thursday. Is that true? IIRC, the Pats under BB and Scar have always been a power blocking team. Can anyone get some info one way or the other.

5. It is my belief that the success or failure of the first 4 regular season games is going to depend on how the OL is doing, so I'd like to know how well JG was protected. The only plays I got to see in the ESPN highlights was the dump off to White, and the play where he was sacked. Though I thought it was interesting to see the host trying to lead Damion Woody into saying something negative about his performance. And almost equally interesting to see Woody not falling for it and saying something very neutral and realistic. I haven't watched any ESPN for a LONG time.....and now that I'm home, I won't have to anymore.

6. Very happy to see good things said about Sheard and Flowers. Should I be concerned about NOT hearing anything at all about Chris Long?

7. Glad that the run D looked improved.

8. I really don't care much about the DB's playing in vanilla defenses

9. a few more things on JG.

a. I think it is worth repeating something I've said before. JG may ultimately end up being an all pro QB. But he isn't that NOW. He will not only be filling in for the GOAT, he hasn't started an NFL game in his very brief 2+ seasons in the league. So forget about all the assets he DIDN'T have on the field, all I am going to look for from JG is that he be better next game than he was in the last. And from what I gathered THAT bar isn't too high.

b. Thursday was the FIRST time he saw a live full effort pass rush this pre-season, so it will take some time for him to get a feel for the 'actual' speed of the game, and that can only come from reps, reps, and more reps.

c. For a any NFL player, but most especially for QB's; the most important aspects of the game are confidence and experience.....and you can only get the former from the latter.

10. The Bears are coming into town next after just a horrible 20-0 outing in their first exhibition. That leads to believe that they might have a very different agenda for this upcoming game. They could feel the need to game plan more and/or keep their starters in longer in order to have a more respectable showing against the Pats. They are already coming off a bad year and my feel the need to placate their fan base.

The Pats on the other hand have nothing to prove and BB will prepare the team solely for the purposes to getting to see what he and staff want to see and evaluate, regardless of what the outcome ends up being. Don't forget how meaningless these outcomes are. I STILL can't forget the brutal ass whipping the team got from the Bengals one preseason. IIRC, it was 30-0 at halftime. The year, I think, was 2003

11. Since I believe the OL is the MOST important aspect of the team to follow. I have this request of someone who taped this game, especially someone who knows anything about OL play. Could you go back and look at the OL play in the first half and give me your opinions? Thanks

I'll defer to Hawg but here are my impressions. There is more potential talent on this line than ever before.

They miss Vollmer. Period. Draft another big LOT in the First round, and groom him at ROT.

Canon is not as bad as some people want to paint him, but he is a backup RT. and #4.

Cam Fleming and the TE? combined to open that enormous hole for Gaffney. They took out the RDE and ROLB together.

Thuney is a starter already and with Solder that half of the line construction is fini.

RG is currently an open question because Cooper is not there to claim it.

I like Shaq Mason. He was critical contributor on every long gainer. and I thought he was OK in pass blocking. Including White's long screen pass where he threw a key kick-out block. BTW so did Aaron Dobson.

Karras is a hardass and could be one of those lunch pail heros over time.

Kline tries but it isn't enough. Halapio is invisible. So were the other tackle scrubs.

Onto the QBs, Many fans here have the infamous Murkowski virus. Recall He looked much better than Casell in 2008, and even the ignorant analyst/writers were on his bandwagon. BB cut him, kept Cassell and he was never heard from again. Brisset is 3 years away at least and would go 0-4 if called on. Meanwhile Polo was playing QB,with poor Running game; no INTs, no TDs and 65% completions rate and 9.33 yards per attempt and 15.27 yards per completion. Brisett was playing chuck at first read, open or not and not QB.

 

[long distance]

6. Very happy to see good things said about Sheard and Flowers. Should I be concerned about NOT hearing anything at all about Chris Long?

You don't have to worry. There were many positives about Long here and in other reports. Also McClellin. Pass rush and stopping the run were two nice surprises of the night. As you could read in this thread Humber and KGH at LB were positive surprises as well (also among best @ST). Even Elandon Roberts showed up.
-
So you can devote all your concern to OL (and RB). It has to be said that (after watching film) positive reports about Cannon are growing. Solder and Andrews are the new worries. Assuming Vollmer shows up soon enough suddenly the bigger concern is C.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I'll defer to Hawg but here are my impressions. There is more potential talent on this line than ever before.

They miss Vollmer. Period. Draft another big LOT in the First round, and groom him at ROT.

Canon is not as bad as some people want to paint him, but he is a backup RT. and #4.

Cam Fleming and the TE? combined to open that enormous hole for Gaffney. They took out the RDE and ROLB together.

Thuney is a starter already and with Solder that half of the line construction is fini.

RG is currently an open question because Cooper is not there to claim it.

I like Shaq Mason. He was critical contributor on every long gainer. and I thought he was OK in pass blocking. Including White's long screen pass where he threw a key kick-out block. BTW so did Aaron Dobson.

Karras is a hardass and could be one of those lunch pail heros over time.

Kline tries but it isn't enough. Halapio is invisible. So were the other tackle scrubs.

Onto the QBs, Many fans here have the infamous Murkowski virus. Recall He looked much better than Casell in 2008, and even the ignorant analyst/writers were on his bandwagon. BB cut him, kept Cassell and he was never heard from again. Brisset is 3 years away at least and would go 0-4 if called on. Meanwhile Polo was playing QB,with poor Running game; no INTs, no TDs and 65% completions rate and 9.33 yards per attempt and 15.27 yards per completion. Brisett was playing chuck at first read, open or not and not QB.

1.) the ot from Ucla is a 6'8" mountain and very adept at the zone blocking scheme. We need to draft him this year.

2.) I think cannon is a third rate ot at best.

3.) I thought stork outplayed Andrews, but stork is an injury waiting to happen.

4.) thuney impressed me very athletic and played very strong.

5.) Mason could be a future all pro if he learns to pass block better and not lunge at people.

6.) Kline looked pretty good. I was shocked.

7.) solder needs to knock off the rust and get back to being an nfl starting calibre tackle.

 

[patfanken]

Good OL review here Ken. Not encouraging.

Patriots-Saints: Offensive Line Film Review - PatsPropaganda

Thanks Mack. The most disturbing thing in this excellent report concerns Solder. He needs to be a rock not an issue. Game two will be important for him. Mason was also a disappointment. I was very high on him after the season. I was looking for a strong 2nd year jump.

So 3 guys (Stork, Mason and Solder) who I expected to be 'special' have all disappointed so far (though Stork is more an injury issue). Lets see if there is any progress going forward.

 

[strngplyr]

He had 7 catches for 87 yards in week 2 against the Bills last season.

And that was a passing game in which 3 players had MORE yards than 87, which is good for almost anyone in a game.

Over the rest of the season he had 6 catches for under 60 yards. I'm not ready to call him serviceable replacing ANYONE.

 

[mihap]

Thanks Mack. The most disturbing thing in this excellent report concerns Solder. He needs to be a rock not an issue. Game two will be important for him. Mason was also a disappointment. I was very high on him after the season. I was looking for a strong 2nd year jump.

So 3 guys (Stork, Mason and Solder) who I expected to be 'special' have all disappointed so far (though Stork is more an injury issue). Lets see if there is any progress going forward.

IIRC Solder had problems almost every year, except SB run.
Stork with so many concussion is history.
Mason should contribute, but let not forget that he has different coach this year.

Patfanken, here is link of Jimmy snaps, that i got from reddit

 

[1960Pats]

It's Dobson he has to score 5 TDs a game for people around here to only say that he is made of glass so he will get hurt soon.

Dobson's problem isn't that he got injured a couple of times. His problem is that he bobbles passes, drops passes and drops to the ground to avoid contact. I didn't see any of that Thursday so I'm taking a wait and see on him.

 

[goheels22002]

It seems a bit much to think that Gaffney is a favorite to be a contributor after one good pre-season run in his career.

The pre-season is a time when everything is possible. There's no reason to think Gaffney won't be the next Adrian Peterson (minus the child abuse), either.

 

[DaBruinz]

Onto the QBs, Many fans here have the infamous Murkowski virus. Recall He looked much better than Casell in 2008, and even the ignorant analyst/writers were on his bandwagon. BB cut him, kept Cassell and he was never heard from again.

Umm.. Who? If you're talking about 2008, then you'd be talking about Matt Gutierrez. Gene Mruczkowski was a C/G who played for the Pats between 2004 and 2006.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Thanks Mack. The most disturbing thing in this excellent report concerns Solder. He needs to be a rock not an issue. Game two will be important for him. Mason was also a disappointment. I was very high on him after the season. I was looking for a strong 2nd year jump.

So 3 guys (Stork, Mason and Solder) who I expected to be 'special' have all disappointed so far (though Stork is more an injury issue). Lets see if there is any progress going forward.

I don't know what game they were watching but it wasn't the one I saw. Mason was much better than they portray, contributed on the long screen pass and the long run. Solder only had a couple of whiffs. I would never draft anybody they scouted, their analysis was that bad.

 

[DaBruinz]

IIRC Solder had problems almost every year, except SB run.
Stork with so many concussion is history.
Mason should contribute, but let not forget that he has different coach this year.

Patfanken, here is link of Jimmy snaps, that i got from reddit

YDRC. Prior to 2015, Solder had started every game but 4. And 3 of them were his rookie year. The 4th was in 2013, the second to last game that was against Baltimore.

 

[DaBruinz]

Its their job to impress or they get cut. Simple.

Fact is that BB has never judged anyone by 1 pre-season game. He looks for improvement from practices to games and then from games 1 to game 3. After pre-season game 3, he'll make 15 roster moves. Cuts/ IR/ etc. But it's not until after game 4 that he has to make the cut to 53 and looking forward to the 10 man practice squad.

If you think that one game is going to lead the Pats to cut a slew of people, there is no bother discussing anything with you.

 

[Mack Herron]

Heres hoping Mason can learn pass blocking quickly. Mason, Stork and Thuney could gove some push in the running game, but protecting the GOAT is job #1 in Foxboro.

 

[aluminum seats]

The worries about Solder are asinine. Guy hasn't played in a year fer crissakes.

 

[mihap]

YDRC. Prior to 2015, Solder had started every game but 4. And 3 of them were his rookie year. The 4th was in 2013, the second to last game that was against Baltimore.

Not injury problems.
Problems with his playing. I replied to patfanken about Solder being bad in saints game.
I dont feel like looking trough internet but many newsreportes analyst and some posters here questioned Solder in some of his games before 2015 if he is top lvl LT or 1rd worthy LT.
In some preseason he was beaten in one on one and then in some games he didnt show elite status so i am trying to say that he ll get better eventually.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Umm.. Who? If you're talking about 2008, then you'd be talking about Matt Gutierrez. Gene Mruczkowski was a C/G who played for the Pats between 2004 and 2006.

My memory is fuzzy for never-weres from a decade ago, Amend it to Gutierez virus. The point is the same mistaking lucky results for talent. They say the memory is the first to go. I stand corrected.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

1.) the ot from Ucla is a 6'8" mountain and very adept at the zone blocking scheme. We need to draft him this year.

Agree 100%. He's going to be extremely good for a very long time. I think he's better than Solder.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Which means the Pats have no chance at drafting him. Grow up son. BB has found very good players and used them rather then sit them as reserves. Mankins and Vollmer played; and could always be used at LOT if needed. Both were larger than some lanky, light LOTs, like the guy the Pats passed over to draft Vollmer.