Pats vs. Redskins post-game thread

[PATSNUTme]

There were 3 very BS calls by the refs today.

1. The roughing on Carter. Negated an int and ended up with points for the Redskins.

2. The personal foul call on Fletcher. TFB was late into his slide. I'm glad that Fletcher went into TBF with his forearm instead of his helmet or TFB might have been injured. It didn't change the scoring on the Patriots.

3. The Personal Foul on Vince. This is a little more questionable but I really can't see that call. The RB could have got up an ran as Gronk did. Vince was just making sure he did not.

 

[PatsDeb]

Our running game isn't a problem. Our lack of calling running plays is. We've also taken running-back-by-committee to a ridiculously new and stupid level. We need one back with 15-20 carries with the others sprinkled in for change of pace. Not 5-8 per back. Nobody can get anything going that way.

Absolutely agree. I do not understand our use (or non-use) of BJGE. He always gets 2 carries on the first drive, then you either never see him again, or you see him for a few more plays in the 2nd half. if he's injured, then use Woodhed or Faulk or Ridley or the othe guy for the whole game and be done with it. As you say, he can't get going the way they use him. It seems we are using 5 roster spots on a bust of a position. Let's cut 2 RBs and pick up a few more guys for the secondary so Edelman and Slater can go back to playing receiver.

 

[strngplyr]

Absolutely agree. I do not understand our use (or non-use) of BJGE. He always gets 2 carries on the first drive, then you either never see him again, or you see him for a few more plays in the 2nd half. if he's injured, then use Woodhed or Faulk or Ridley or the othe guy for the whole game and be done with it. As you say, he can't get going the way they use him. It seems we are using 5 roster spots on a bust of a position. Let's cut 2 RBs and pick up a few more guys for the secondary so Edelman and Slater can go back to playing receiver.

I honestly don't have an issue with having 5 RB's, Edelman and Slater don't play WR anymore, anyways, haha.

I do have an issue with Woodhead as a 3rd down RB, though. He's explosive and all that good stuff, but he never was great at pass protection, and he seems to have actually regressed. I'd like to see him on 1st and 2nd downs if we're going to use him and have Faulk or someone reliable in the backfield who won't let Brady get hit on 3rd.

That said, I'd rather see Benny for the majority of a drive, including 3rd down, and pull him out for a quick screen or draw to Woodhead, then put Benny back in.

 

[PatsDeb]

There were 3 very BS calls by the refs today.

1. The roughing on Carter. Negated an int and ended up with points for the Redskins.

2. The personal foul call on Fletcher. TFB was late into his slide. I'm glad that Fletcher went into TBF with his forearm instead of his helmet or TFB might have been injured. It didn't change the scoring on the Patriots.

3. The Personal Foul on Vince. This is a little more questionable but I really can't see that call. The RB could have got up an ran as Gronk did. Vince was just making sure he did not.

The only one I cannot agree with you on is the call on Fletcher (and I am trying not to be a homer). Brady was clearly in a slide and he needed to pull up. He also should have gotten tossed from the game after arguing like he did. The calls on Vince and Carter were ridiculous, particularly the one on Vince.

 

[DaBruinz]

There were 3 very BS calls by the refs today.

1. The roughing on Carter. Negated an int and ended up with points for the Redskins.

2. The personal foul call on Fletcher. TFB was late into his slide. I'm glad that Fletcher went into TBF with his forearm instead of his helmet or TFB might have been injured. It didn't change the scoring on the Patriots.

3. The Personal Foul on Vince. This is a little more questionable but I really can't see that call. The RB could have got up an ran as Gronk did. Vince was just making sure he did not.

How about the non-call in which Paulson held Ninkovich by the front of his jersey collar to keep him from making the tackle on Royster, who ended up with a 9 yard run because of it.

How about the BS holding call on Matt Light who MISSED grabbing Orakpo's shirt sleeve on the run wide in the 3rd quarter.

Or how about the holding committed by Armstrong on Arrington early in the game that allowed Helu to reel on a 20 yarder..

The refs, in general, were horrible. And mainly in favor of the Redskins..

 

[TheTruth3402]

Can you say that BO'B and BP don't stand up to Bill when necessary?

Sorry for the delay, didn't see your response. No, but you can't say they can either. I suppose it was silly to bring up, as we will never know.

What "common wisdom" are you referring to that is clashing with what you see?

The wisdom I was referring to was that BB sees everything that we as fans do twice over and that he is already trying to implement solutions. I see only Bill's fingerprints on this defense, regardless of the presence of Patricia and others. And I'm not seeing the necessary adjustments put in place.

I don't know how long you've been following the Pats, but they have been in the process of over-hauling this defense for the last 3 years. And it's still a work in progress. They still need another DE, OLB and a safety to go with what they have already changed.

I agree the personnel isn't ideal. But I don't think that personnel is completely at fault here either. There is a lack of originality and a very passive approach.

 

[DaBruinz]

Mark Barron, Alabama

Didn't BB say that a S needs to be interchangable? Barron looks more like a
SS but he is extremely talented.

Barron isn't a top 10 pick.. Check out the Draft forum..

 

[patsfan13]

I only saw clips of the game... I'll be able to watch it later on Game Rewind... but I'm a little miffed about some penalties.

NFL.com seems to be making a big deal about whether or not London Fletcher's hit on Brady was really illegal or not, but ignoring the fact that Carter's seemingly legal hit on Grossman negated McCourty's INT when the refs flagged it. I saw Fletcher's hit on Brady and I'm not sure what was wrong with it. I did not see Carter's hit on Grossman. Either way, both got flagged, but NFL.com only seems to be making a big deal about Fletcher's penalty.

Also, on Brady's late INT, Wilson was pulling on Underwood's jersey right as Underwood is making his cut to the right. Is that pass interference?

Neither of the Roughing the passers should have been called. Carter was pushed and hit Grossman's thigh, Fletcher was already committed before Brady gave himself up and he hit Brady in the Chest not in the head and with his pads not his Helmet. Didn't like the PF on Vince either.

The worst personal foul was the cheap shot on Gronk on the Goal Line, If there isn't a stiff fine I will be p*ssed. He led with the helmet and hit his chin.

 

[strngplyr]

The only one I cannot agree with you on is the call on Fletcher (and I am trying not to be a homer). Brady was clearly in a slide and he needed to pull up. He also should have gotten tossed from the game after arguing like he did. The calls on Vince and Carter were ridiculous, particularly the one on Vince.

The call on Wilfork was absolutely awful. Is the 300+ lb guy supposed to give the RB a chance to get up and run away?

I do agree the call on Fletcher during Brady's slide was called correctly, but Brady did start his slide very late and Fletcher couldn't do a whole lot about it, hit wasn't dirty, and he doesn't have a history of dirty hits either. But, a rule is a rule. It was a good penalty, but I hope Fletcher doesn't get fined for it, that would be pretty crazy.

The penalty on Carter is tough. He did look to be pretty low, but I'm just going off of memory, I haven't rewatched it at all. But I do know the call was for going low, not a late hit, and he did hit at/below the knees If I remember correctly.

 

[PatsDeb]

Yep, I was screaming the same thing the whole time during that emotionally draining goal-to-go stand. No idea how BB justifies letting the clock wind down there?

I think BB didn't want to give the Redskins time to come up with good plays against our pitiful D. I think he thought we had a better chance to stop them if they were forced to hurry to get their plays off. He probably thought they expected him to call his TOs and when he didn't it gave us a slight (I did say "slight") edge.

 

[patsfan13]

The only one I cannot agree with you on is the call on Fletcher (and I am trying not to be a homer). Brady was clearly in a slide and he needed to pull up. He also should have gotten tossed from the game after arguing like he did. The calls on Vince and Carter were ridiculous, particularly the one on Vince.

I thought Fletcher had committed before Brady gave himself up.


The Non call for the shot to the head on Gronk was the worst call I have seen this year.

 

[TheTruth3402]

Barron isn't a top 10 pick.. Check out the Draft forum..

Right you are, sire. I guess I've just come to be enamored of Barron from watching him for a few years.

 

[DaBruinz]

S
I agree the personnel isn't ideal. But I don't think that personnel is completely at fault here either. There is a lack of originality and a very passive approach.

HUH?? A lack of originality and a passive approach? You need to be more specific? Are you referring to the rebuild of the defense or how the defense is playing?

In terms of the rebuild, I think the Pats have been very aggressive. In fact, too aggressive in getting rid of "older" players such as Sanders and Meriweather. I could have understood Meriweather, but dumping Sanders still makes no sense to me. Not when he is head and shoulders above Brown and Barrett. Not only in play, but also in ability to call the secondary coverages. And that has been a huge issue with having Chung out.

If you are talking about the play calling, in general, then I agree with you. But I also think that much of it has to do with the number of injuries to the LBers and DBs that the Pats have had.

 

[PATSNUTme]

How about the non-call in which Paulson held Ninkovich by the front of his jersey collar to keep him from making the tackle on Royster, who ended up with a 9 yard run because of it.

How about the BS holding call on Matt Light who MISSED grabbing Orakpo's shirt sleeve on the run wide in the 3rd quarter.

Or how about the holding committed by Armstrong on Arrington early in the game that allowed Helu to reel on a 20 yarder..

The refs, in general, were horrible. And mainly in favor of the Redskins..

I was just commenting on those 3 calls. Every game there are others like you mentioned.

 

[bob85ne]

How has the defence got so bad?

What a waste of Brady an average defence would be nice.

For this team to win against the elite teams in the playoffs the offense has to be perfect and against good defences that's going to be a big ask.

 

[TheTruth3402]

I hope I haven't come off sounding like too much of a chicken little today, I just don't like to hear people say that the defensive performance is solely about personnel.

Yes, McCourty is having a down year. Yes, there have been injuries. Yes, the safety situation is a mess.

At the same time, I'm concerned with the overall approach of the defense, from a coaching standpoint. They are not as physical as other top AFC teams and they are not as aggressive.

Everyone loves the points allowed argument, but after today it really starts to fall apart. It is my personal belief that it just isn't good enough to allow teams to continually get the ball in the red area, expecting the D to hold to a FG attempt. Playing "not to lose" or not to give up the big play. There needs to be more risk taking involved, strategically.

 

[PATSNUTme]

The only one I cannot agree with you on is the call on Fletcher (and I am trying not to be a homer). Brady was clearly in a slide and he needed to pull up. He also should have gotten tossed from the game after arguing like he did. The calls on Vince and Carter were ridiculous, particularly the one on Vince.

I don't think Fletcher could have pulled up. If he had time and wanted to be dirty, he could have launched himself with his helmet into TFB's chest. Scenes of Mo Lewis flashed though my head. I'm really glad he did not do that and I think it was a bad call.

 

[Kontradiction]

One thing's for sure-we didn't win because Rex Grossman had a ****ty game.

Because, sadly, we were incapable of forcing him into one.

 

[TheTruth3402]

HUH?? A lack of originality and a passive approach? You need to be more specific? Are you referring to the rebuild of the defense or how the defense is playing?

In terms of the rebuild, I think the Pats have been very aggressive. In fact, too aggressive in getting rid of "older" players such as Sanders and Meriweather. I could have understood Meriweather, but dumping Sanders still makes no sense to me. Not when he is head and shoulders above Brown and Barrett. Not only in play, but also in ability to call the secondary coverages. And that has been a huge issue with having Chung out.

If you are talking about the play calling, in general, then I agree with you. But I also think that much of it has to do with the number of injuries to the LBers and DBs that the Pats have had.

Haha, I constantly do this, bringing across my ideas way too broadly. I meant from a scheme and playcalling perspective.

They have indeed been aggressive in personnel decisions, although I would have loved for them to have kept the late 1st rounder last year for a guy like Cameron Jordan, who would be a perfect fit at strong side DE.

I don't hate the decisions to cut Sanders and Meriweather as BB was at least trying to address a weakness in a bold way.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think Fletcher could have pulled up. If he had time and wanted to be dirty, he could have launched himself with his helmet into TFB's chest. Scenes of Mo Lewis flashed though my head. I'm really glad he did not do that and I think it was a bad call.

the penalty wasn't about whether Fletcher was being dirty or not. The penalty was that he hit a QB who had gone into his slide. And it doesn't that Brady had just started his slide. Brady had his leg tucked under him before Fletcher hit Brady. The Problem comes from the fact that the referees made a bogus claim that Fletcher hit Brady in the head with his forearm, which everyone knows was bogus because Fletcher hit him in the chest.

As for whether Fletcher was committed before Brady slid, well, they expect players to let up within one step of the QB on passing plays, I would expect the same on slides..