Patriots now have the 4th ranked defense (PPG) in the NFL

[jah]

Regarding Jacksonville, the Pats have already proved they can move the ball & score vs. just as good versions of that scheme (2012 & 2014 Seattle).

I don't remember hearing as much about Seattle's pass rush, and that's what scares me with Jacksonville.

 

[jah]

Actually, the "other team" I'm thinking of actually had 2 JAG QBs that season, neither of whom was on the team the following year.

2000?

 

[maineman209]

Hmm, what I see is that you can run on the 2017 Jags. 2001 Patriots not so much.

Pats 2001 is not the "other team" I was thinking of, but I can see how it sorta fits.

 

[Oswlek]

2000 Ravens? I'm not seeing this Jags defense quite at that level.

 

[RobertWeathers]

2000 Ravens? I'm not seeing this Jags defense quite at that level.

Relative to the rest of the league they are very comparable. We can all agree the Jags D is no joke.

Agree though. I put that Ravens D in the GOAT discussion.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If the pats pitch a shut out tonight, they’d be ranked 2nd.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If the pats pitch a shut out tonight, they’d be ranked 2nd.

In 3 games vs NE as a starter, Jay Cutler has thrown 4 TDs, 5 picks and up 37 points TOTAL.

24-13 NE feels right to me.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

In 3 games vs NE as a starter, Jay Cutler has thrown 4 TDs, 5 picks and up 37 points TOTAL.

24-13 NE feels right to me.

Yeah, but has he played on this bad of a team before?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, but has he played on this bad of a team before?

No.

Well, one game was with DEN in 2008 and that was when Shanny was HC. They were 8-8 and NE crushed them. The 2010 game was in the snow and that was another blowout vs a good 11-5 NFCCG Bears team. The last game was 2014 and his Bears team was 5-11. That was in Foxboro and the only reason his number were good was because Bill called off the dogs after going up 45-7 in the 3rd quarter.

Note: That 2014 Bears team had VERY good talent on offense. Marty, Forte, Brandon Marshall, Jeffery.

 

[TennisBallHead]

LOL at someone comparing this Jags team to the 2000 Ravens

 

[luuked]

In addition, the decision to break the bank for Gilmore over Butler comes to mind, as Butler is a less physical defender who can be boxed out in the endzone.

In my opinion this is not about Butler being less physical in the sense that you mean but it boils down to Butler being an overachiever. Thats how he got his nickname. He is going full speed for every snap.. which is great. But what happens when he loses just a little bit of his leaping ability ?

There is a point where you just cant make up the gap in physical talent up with grinding and working hard and players who won out in the genetic lottery and are more physically gifted will just outpace you. Thats how I see the Butler contract conundrum. Is he old yet ? No, but players like him will age quicker than others who dont have to go full throttle all the time.

Belichick didn't even try to resign Chandler Jones and traded away Jamie Collins. I wonder if much of that has to do with their talents being better realized on a long field with more space and passing plays taking longer to develop. Edge rushers are certainly less valuable as you get closer to defending your own goal line, whereas NTs and MLBs become much more valued. Year after year, the Yards Per Game vs Points Per Game confirm the Patriots personnel is best at minimizing points, not yards. With the salary cap, you can't have it all, so perhaps this is Belichick's strategy and why he we rarely understand his decision to spend on certain players but not others.

I think you have to distinguish between why Jones and Collins were traded away. Collins would still be a pillar of this defense if he had the same attitude as DMac, Hightower or Harmon. He just developed and matured into a player that didnt fit the culture that BB & co want on this team.

Chandler Jones was just not worth the money he would be getting once he was past his rookie deal. Despite all the jokes we make about him being a September and October guy and a stats compiler the real issue is that he is a tier 2 playmaker. He is not a total game wrecker like e.g. Watt or Aaron Donald but still would be paid a substantial percentage of your overall cap. Given how flexible BB and MP want our front players to be in terms of setting edge, dropping into coverage and not only rushing the passer the question is whether Jones would be worth that money here. Ask Chris Long why he moved on and he will pretty much tell you exactly that story.

 

[Oswlek]

Relative to the rest of the league they are very comparable. We can all agree the Jags D is no joke.

Agree though. I put that Ravens D in the GOAT discussion.

I think a better comparison might be 2015 Denver, though it isn't as apt with the seeding stuff on the periphery.

 

[Ring 6]

Offense factors in here, I think, even if just a little. When facing NE, other coaches seem to make risky/bonehead decisions because they fear Brady. FG attempts vs a « normal team » become ridiculous 4th fails...

Or garbage time TDs. It evens out.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think a better comparison might be 2015 Denver, though it isn't as apt with the seeding stuff on the periphery.

Maybe. I still look at how good a D is when they get to the playoffs.

There is statistical good and making plays when you need to make plays.

 

[Nehalem]

On a serious note, I'm starting to wonder if Belichick's salary cap philosophy is tied to red zone defense. I've noted that he's paid big contracts to players like Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower, and Gilmore. All of these guys are very physical and would tend to be better players on a shorter field, the first three being able to own the middle of the field and stop the run. In addition, the decision to break the bank for Gilmore over Butler comes to mind, as Butler is a less physical defender who can be boxed out in the

Personally I think you shouldn't mention Malcolm Butler as a guy who fails in the redzone

 

[patsinthesnow]

I don't remember hearing as much about Seattle's pass rush, and that's what scares me with Jacksonville.

Definitely a fair point.

 

[Deus Irae]

And, at the moment, tied for 1st with TEN in fewest rushing TDs allowed (5).

That's a pretty useless stat when you're looking at the overall run defense.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I knew this thread was premature

 

[DarrylS]

Even after last nights debacle, the Pats are still a top 6 defense in points allowed..

Jags 202 pts allowed (15.5 per)
Chargers 225 pts allowed (17.3 per)
Cardinals 231 pts allowed (18.0 per)
Vikings 235 pts allowed (18.1 per)
Ravens 246 pts allowed (18.9 per)
Pats and Eagles 250 pts allowed ( 19.2 per)

Last night will be remembered as the night that defensive injuries finally caught up to them.. LB corps Lee, Roberts, Reilly and M. Flowers gotta do better than that.. offensively they just pooped the bed.

 

[Kontradiction]

The lack of a quality LB was definitely felt last night against the pass. This was the first game that Van Noy was truly missed, IMO. Roberts shouldn’t be on the field in passing situations at all, but was out of necessity. He got lit up to the point that the team was playing Jordan Richards at LB late in the game.