Patriots / Brady Discussion

[luuked]

5 things that killed the 2010 Pats

1. Horrible 3rd down D. Crappy all year
2. Horrible red zone D. Crappy all year
3. Lack of an outside threat. Jets flooded the middle intermediate
4. Too dependent on forcing TOs.
5. Tom did not have a great game.

I honestly think the turnover part is the most misunderstood thing around here. The reason why our defense this year is actually pretty good is because unlike other iterations that had such an excessive difference between yards and points this one is not dependent on turnovers to stop drives. They do it consistently by shutting teams down from our own 40 on. That might be subtle for many but is in reality a huge difference because the 2010 and 2011 teams had deep issues when turnovers dried up.

 

[GorBelSer]

If Mitchell is good to go, he should be activated for the Titans game. Their pass defense is average at best, a perfect opportunity for him to get into the groove.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I honestly think the turnover part is the most understood thing around here. The reason why our defense this year is actually pretty good is because unlike other iterations that had such an excessive difference between yards and points this one is not dependent on turnovers to stop drives. They do it consistently by shutting teams down from our own 40 on. That might be subtle for many but is in reality a huge difference because the 2010 and 2011 teams had deep issues when turnovers dried up.

Exactly.

Fun fact: Over the reg season, the 2010 team allowed .5 more ypg than the 2017 D. While the 2010 team generated way more TOs, the 2017 bunch had more 3rd down stops and had a much better 3rd down D % and red zone D

 

[Huckleberry1]

If Hogan & Van Noy, among others are banged up, do you hold them out for Pittsburgh or Jax? Or maybe it's better they get the rust off...

It’s the playoffs, you play those who can play.

 

[luuked]

Exactly.

Fun fact: Over the reg season, the 2010 team allowed .5 more ypg than the 2017 D. While the 2010 team generated way more TOs, the 2017 bunch had more 3rd down stops and had a much better 3rd down D % and red zone D

And if you add in what Chatham said in his recent podcast about our defense not being in the top 10 of attempted fieldgoals against you can clearly see that while we gave up a lot of yards overall, we were not exactly exchanging TDs for FGs (i.e. the good old bend but dont break) but stiffened up even before the red area (from the 40 on).

 

[RobertWeathers]

And if you add in what Chatham said in his recent podcast about our defense not being in the top 10 of attempted fieldgoals against you can clearly see that while we gave up a lot of yards overall, we were not exactly exchanging TDs for FGs (i.e. the good old bend but dont break) but stiffened up even before the red area (from the 40 on).

Chatham is awesome. I learn something new every time listening to him

 

[Oswlek]

And if you add in what Chatham said in his recent podcast about our defense not being in the top 10 of attempted fieldgoals against you can clearly see that while we gave up a lot of yards overall, we were not exactly exchanging TDs for FGs (i.e. the good old bend but dont break) but stiffened up even before the red area (from the 40 on).

I'm curious how the handful of eschewed fgs might have influenced those numbers. Sometimes mere rankings aren't as accurate as they would appear to be.

Of course, some of those fgs were eschewed because the team was in panic-mode, which would also influence NE's willingness to allow yardage. So it may end up just cancelling out.

 

[Pats1989]

5 things that killed the 2010 Pats

1. Horrible 3rd down D. Crappy all year
2. Horrible red zone D. Crappy all year
3. Lack of an outside threat. Jets flooded the middle intermediate
4. Too dependent on forcing TOs.
5. Tom did not have a great game.

After the Jets playoff game, that was the first time I wondered if BB would be on the hot seat. It was six years without a title, and it looked as if the team was on the downswing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

After the Jets playoff game, that was the first time I wondered if BB would be on the hot seat. It was six years without a title, and it looked as if the team was on the downswing.

This board was one big game day thread.

 

[Ring 6]

After the Jets playoff game, that was the first time I wondered if BB would be on the hot seat. It was six years without a title, and it looked as if the team was on the downswing.

Guess it wasn’t on the down swing.
In 7 years since, they have won 12+ games every year, 88-24, earned a first round bye every year, gone to every afccg, gone to half of the SBs and won 2 of the 6.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

5 things that killed the 2010 Pats

1. Horrible 3rd down D. Crappy all year
2. Horrible red zone D. Crappy all year
3. Lack of an outside threat. Jets flooded the middle intermediate
4. Too dependent on forcing TOs.
5. Tom did not have a great game.

I don't really agree. NE's 2010 D was the best D in the NFL at creating turnovers. They had an uncanny knack for doing it, especially in the red zone. They were super young and learning 0n the fly, and the Safety spot was a bit of wild card. I don't disagree there, but a lot of the younger players played well. McCourty, Spikes, Chung's 1st year getting a lot of snaps, etc.

Nothing stopped NE from dropping 45 points on the Jets a few weeks earlier.

The problem with that game was a paranoia of not scoring a lot early and throwing too much in the process. Brady's horrendous INT after they were steamrolling down the field, really hurt, but the D held to force a FG miss in the other direction.

Add in Crumpler's TD drop, and a 14-0 score was all for not.

Then, the fake punt play that was botched. It was a series of bad plays and lack of execution that put the defense's back against the wall vs a team that played loose like they had nothing to lose.

Sure, the D could have risen up and created a turnover or two, but give Sanchez credit for not turning into Sanchez for those 3 hours.

Bill O'Brien and Brady panicked a bit and Brady looked like a deer in the headlights, literally for the first time in his career. The bad habit of subbing the RBs on and off, which gives the the opponent an easy tell, was also rearing its ugly head as it has in past seasons. This little problem has been around for years, but now with a slew of RBs you don't have to sub on and off to fill a specific need, it doesn't tell the defense (as much in the past), what the play is.

They used too much Woodhead, subbing him on and off. I can still see DeVito cheating so well and blasting by Mankins, guessing the snap counts so well. That's on Brady and/or O'Brien/BB to get a feel for why the Jets front was playing so well.

I would say NE's 2010 D, at times starting 4 rookies on the front end of a rebuild, had very little to do with losing to the Jets. The offense under-performed, which has been the same pattern we've seen with the Super Bowl losses and other playoff losses.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I honestly think the turnover part is the most misunderstood thing around here. The reason why our defense this year is actually pretty good is because unlike other iterations that had such an excessive difference between yards and points this one is not dependent on turnovers to stop drives. They do it consistently by shutting teams down from our own 40 on. That might be subtle for many but is in reality a huge difference because the 2010 and 2011 teams had deep issues when turnovers dried up.

Belichick doesn't scheme in between the 20s much. I think we would agree there. He also knows it's a marathon, not a sprint. And, I truly believe he buries stuff for the postseason.

Yards allowed per game is the most misleading stats in all of sports, in my opinion.

I am not saying it's a good thing, but if the D is holding in the red zone, there is no reason why the Pats offense can't score 25+ points every week. And, there have been times this year when the D took the lead, while the offense sputtered, too, but no one says anything.

Everyone spends too much time listening to the anti-BB media. I'll watch the game back and look for negative things, but I don't see much.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

After the Jets playoff game, that was the first time I wondered if BB would be on the hot seat. It was six years without a title, and it looked as if the team was on the downswing.

I was wondering if Brady would EVER be criticized accurately and fairly by the media and fans.

He wasn't, and it's evidenced by your comments alone. He wasn't even criticized for his poor 2007 and 2011 titles games and mediocre SB performances thereafter.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

After the Jets playoff game, that was the first time I wondered if BB would be on the hot seat. It was six years without a title, and it looked as if the team was on the downswing.

Are you actually serious?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Are you actually serious?

I was surprised by such a comment as well. I have never been able to figure out why when Brady plays poorly, the fans ignore it and look to scapegoat elsewhere.

Honestly, the best draft pick BB ever had the last 7 or 8 years, minus the Gronk pick, was the JimmyG pick. Brady got hungrier from 2014 through, now than I'd ever seen him since the Weis years.Brady knew JImmyG was good and so did BB.

Not an accident, Brady has had better postseasons since. I expect it to continue.

BB should shoulder some of the blame for sure, but the amount of blame to him is ridiculous. He can't throw it, catch or run.

 

[luuked]

Belichick doesn't scheme in between the 20s much. I think we would agree there. He also knows it's a marathon, not a sprint. And, I truly believe he buries stuff for the postseason.

Yards allowed per game is the most misleading stats in all of sports, in my opinion.

I am not saying it's a good thing, but if the D is holding in the red zone, there is no reason why the Pats offense can't score 25+ points every week. And, there have been times this year when the D took the lead, while the offense sputtered, too, but no one says anything.

Everyone spends too much time listening to the anti-BB media. I'll watch the game back and look for negative things, but I don't see much.

I see you are new here so I will save the snarky response for another time. But yeah what you are writing is pretty much what most people who actually go beyond fantasy/hot take level would agree with. So I have nothing to add really because it is pretty much what I have been saying for years now.

 

[luuked]

I'm curious how the handful of eschewed fgs might have influenced those numbers. Sometimes mere rankings aren't as accurate as they would appear to be.

Of course, some of those fgs were eschewed because the team was in panic-mode, which would also influence NE's willingness to allow yardage. So it may end up just cancelling out.

Lets use Chatham's words. If we really are what some of the misinformed people would call a bend but dont break defense that exchanges TDs for FGs then we would be a clear number 1 in FG attempts allowed. Especially with those yardage stats.

However, the disconnect between points allowed & FGs attempts allowed vs. yardage allowed essentially just emphasizes that BB/MP just value the early downs in opposite territory less than those after midfield. Like Chatham says they are using more resources early to prevent the big play and then once the opponents gets into scoring range the approach changes up and more pressure is dialed up.

 

[patfanken]

I see you are new here so I will save the snarky response for another time. But yeah what you are writing is pretty much what most people who actually go beyond fantasy/hot take level would agree with. So I have nothing to add really because it is pretty much what I have been saying for years now.

Just a thought on the topic.

What isn't being mentioned is that the Pats were in a pretty massive rebuild cycle during the 2010-12 seasons. Most good teams slip back to 8-8, 7-9 seasons for a few seasons between eras. the Pats rebuild and KEEP winning, which is something that we shouldn't take for granted.

We are in the process of watching our entire front 7 on defense get rebuilt. Back in 2014-16 we watched the OL go through a massive rebuilt (4 of 5)...and we still kept winning. This year the RB position got a huge infusion of different talent, and for the Jets game 3 of the 4 WR's (Cooks, Britt, and Dorsett) and 2 of the 3 TE's (Allen and Hollister) were all in their first year with the Pats (and we didn't even throw the ball at Gronk. )

Our down years are seasons that most fans would be grateful for. Just look at the joy Bills fans had from their 9-7 team.

 

[luuked]

Just a thought on the topic.

What isn't being mentioned is that the Pats were in a pretty massive rebuild cycle during the 2010-12 seasons. Most good teams slip back to 8-8, 7-9 seasons for a few seasons between eras. the Pats rebuild and KEEP winning, which is something that we shouldn't take for granted.

We are in the process of watching our entire front 7 on defense get rebuilt. Back in 2014-16 we watched the OL go through a massive rebuilt (4 of 5)...and we still kept winning. This year the RB position got a huge infusion of different talent, and for the Jets game 3 of the 4 WR's (Cooks, Britt, and Dorsett) and 2 of the 3 TE's (Allen and Hollister) were all in their first year with the Pats (and we didn't even throw the ball at Gronk. )

Our down years are seasons that most fans would be grateful for. Just look at the joy Bills fans had from their 9-7 team.

Of course we were reshaping the backbone of the defense and that is why 2010, 2011 were among the best coaching jobs BB & co have done.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I see you are new here so I will save the snarky response for another time. But yeah what you are writing is pretty much what most people who actually go beyond fantasy/hot take level would agree with. So I have nothing to add really because it is pretty much what I have been saying for years now.

Now I am curious would create a snarky response to what I wrote.