OT: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

[Marqui]

So it was a fluke that they drilled the Bengals two weeks in a row then went on to take out a San Diego team, at home, that hadn't lost in 10 weeks previously?

That winning streak isn't particularly impressive if you look at their schedule.

 

[Deus Irae]

That winning streak isn't particularly impressive if you look at their schedule.

The Chargers won 11 games in a row to end the season. That's impressive no matter what teams they played. They were all NFL teams, after all.

 

[Deus Irae]

About as original as your post Mr. I-know-everything- because - I'm - on patsfan.com - 23 hours per day.

Home office with multiple computers, slick.

 

[Marqui]

The Chargers won 11 games in a row to end the season. That's impressive no matter what teams they played. They were all NFL teams, after all.

Yeah I guess the consistent high level play is impressive in and of itself. But it's not like they steamrolled a bunch of Superbowl contenders.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Yeah I guess the consistent high level play is impressive in and of itself. But it's not like they steamrolled a bunch of Superbowl contenders.

Did you say that when the Pats won 21 straight games by beating many pretty bad teams during that streak including the 3 poor AFC East teams several times each? - its different when its your team that is on a streak

 

[Coach42]

The Jets had a nice run last year which means absolutely nothing going forward. Look at the final four from the year before Pitt, Balt, Arz, Phi, not one got back to the championship game. How about 07? NE, SD, NYG, GB, not one back the next year. Well their must have been a repeat in 06? Yup one NE then INDY, CHI and NO. So really lets play some actual games before we declare the Jets world champions, OK? OK.

 

[Coach42]

Give the NY Jets their due: they dare to reach for the stars... (the Super Bowl). They know what they want and they are not afraid to go out and get it......at a REASONABLE price relative to the RISK.

Not too long ago, you could say that of the Patriots (witness the Moss and Welker trade). No longer.

The Patriots mistakes of last season are haunting Patriot management. Their free agent foray of last year netted Galloway and Baker (one didn't last the season and the other was dumped this off season) and they traded valuable draft picks for mediocre talents like Lewis (from the Iggles) and Burgess from Oakland Raiders (for a third and fifth draft picks this year). Compounding these errors in talent evaluation was the lack of locker room cohesion, largely blamed on Adalius Thomas (a 07 free agent whose signing was much acclaimed at that time) and unnamed others.

Having been bitten by their past off season mistakes, they are now too shy -- too vary of making ANY risky moves no matter how low the price.

Team management and ownership seem frozen -- unable or unwilling to undertake the kind of prior signature moves that paid great dividends in the past (witness Dillon or Moss). This off season alone, the Patriots could have signed Stallworth (for near the league minimum) -- but did not. They could have traded for and signed Boldin, by all accounts a good team member, for a reasonable price -- but did not. (Yes, I know they did not have a third round draft choice to offer the Cardinals but could easily have worked out something acceptable). They could have traded for Holmes -- but did not. (Again the third and fifth pick given up for Burgess turns out to have a very high opportunity cost) Yes they deserve credit for signing their own free agents but that simply preserves the status quo team of last year. Where is the improvement? The Pats don't even seem to be involved with Jason Taylor -- who is an unrestricted free agent and one whom they openly admired.

I know part of the answer will be from the 12 picks -- four in the first two rounds -- in what is believed to be a deep draft. NY Jets now have only six picks total and two in the first two rounds. But arguably they have banked a lot of talent in Holmes and Cromartie. Last year they hit homeruns with free agents and they are willing to dare. But they are not rash -- they are taking on calculated and acceptable risk -- at a risk adjusted price they deem affordable. Indeed, if the epic length of this thread is any indication, Patriot Nation seems to have taken notice of the intelligent moves made by the Jets. Neutral observers are lauding the Jets for their moves. By any definition getting a talent like Holmes for a fifth draft choice is only possible because he is a troubled talent. But that did not stop the Patriots in the past?

What should concern us is not any specific signing by the Jets or the Ravens or any other team. What should concern Pat Fans is the evident pattern this off season of a complete LACK of willingness on the part of Patriot management in doing anything in adding through free agents. Banking on the draft is itself not without risk. This inability or unwillingness to engage is a cause for concern. As is also the management's ability to evaluate talent available through free agency or through trades.

Interesting you don't think the lack of salary cap had anything to do with the Pats sudden hesitancy in free agency? I mean you site their previous aggressiveness in the FA market (right or wrong) as recently as last year, yet now, suddenly, they are a little more cautious and there is now no cap. Probably a mere coincidence.

 

[GoWhalers]

Back to the trade for a moment...

Taking off the Jets-hating-goggles for a minute, I'm still not sure I like this trade for the Jets.

While on paper it seems to add a Super Bowl MVP talent to the Jets for little risk, I also think it sends some mixed messages to a WR core that lacks for stability and is going to be a tough job for a young Sanchez to manage.

Braylon Edwards: A bit of a head case, who's currently operating on a one-year deal. Needs to prove himself, but will now be competing for balls with Holmes on the other side of the field.

Santonio Holmes: His world just got turned upside down after getting dumped by the Steelers, will be serving a 4-game suspension, also on the last year of his contract. He may not know who to trust these days, and the Jets aren't offering him any financial stability (yet). Big hugs from Rex Ryan don't mean much with your agent whispering in your ear.

Jerricho Cotchery: 27 years old and in the middle of a 5-year contract, but will likely go from a #2 WR to a #3 slot WR mid-season when Holmes returns from suspension. I admittedly don't know much about Cotchery and he seems to be a relatively hard worker, but this is a bad time in his career to be taking a step backwards.

In a everybody-puts-the-team-ahead-of-themselves scenario, then this looks like a pretty promising WR core.

But what you really have here are two potential #1 receivers with checkered attitudes and no long-term financial commitments, combined with a mid-career WR being asked to take a demotion. What happens if Holmes returns in Week 5 and starts taking numbers away from Braylon? Or if Cotchery is unhappy to move into the slot mid-season? Or if Holmes can't crack the starting WR corp when he gets back from suspension but needs to start building his free-agency highlight reel? If the Jets are winning, the NY media will side with management when a player complains -- but if they're struggling, the media will have a field day playing to characters like Edwards or Holmes.

I think a big difference between this crew and past Patriots receiving corps is that Moss is a guy who respects BB at the end of the day, Welker is a team-first guy who knows his role, and a Gaffney/Stallworth/Edleman is happy for an opportunity to take a step forward in their careers (each coming from different directions).

Sanchez doesn't yet have the on-the-field credibility like a Brady or Manning to keep all these guys in line regardless of stats, and Rex Ryan so far hasn't had to deal with one unhappy soldier, much less several. I think this grouping could be a hell of a headache for Sanchez and Ryan.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

It has nothing to do with fence sitting. If you don't think the team's falling apart and heading for near-certain doom, and you don't think everything is all unicorns and singing rainbows, it's possible to not be in either group . In fact, that's where most fans, including myself, fall.

You've painted two extremes. I asked what side of the scale you tilt toward? I think this team has many uncertainties/holes that hopefully will be filled over the next several years. I think next year should be viewed with substantial concern.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

My personal opinions:

1. The Jets MAY have made a great move. We'll know more in SEPTEMBER.
It wont matter how many great receivers the Jets have, if Sanchez doesnt improve in his second year. Thats something that NOBODY knows as of now.

2. This thread became annoying after pg 3.

3. Many posters (like myself) are being called blind homers who drink too much koolaid. I think a person should check our older posts, before judging us. Do i believe BB is great? Yes. Do i believe he has f'd up from time to time? oh yeah. Does this make me a homer? Nope.

4. The new poster called 'bostonpatriot' will most likely be banned before the start of the season. Chill out man. If you think someone is an idiot and a homer, fine. Just post your opinion once, and move on.

now back to the pointless argument

 

[K-Ro 25]

Back to the trade for a moment...

Taking off the Jets-hating-goggles for a minute, I'm still not sure I like this trade for the Jets.

While on paper it seems to add a Super Bowl MVP talent to the Jets for little risk, I also think it sends some mixed messages to a WR core that lacks for stability and is going to be a tough job for a young Sanchez to manage.

Braylon Edwards: A bit of a head case, who's currently operating on a one-year deal. Needs to prove himself, but will now be competing for balls with Holmes on the other side of the field.

Santonio Holmes: His world just got turned upside down after getting dumped by the Steelers, will be serving a 4-game suspension, also on the last year of his contract. He may not know who to trust these days, and the Jets aren't offering him any financial stability (yet). Big hugs from Rex Ryan don't mean much with your agent whispering in your ear.

Jerricho Cotchery: 27 years old and in the middle of a 5-year contract, but will likely go from a #2 WR to a #3 slot WR mid-season when Holmes returns from suspension. I admittedly don't know much about Cotchery and he seems to be a relatively hard worker, but this is a bad time in his career to be taking a step backwards.

In a everybody-puts-the-team-ahead-of-themselves scenario, then this looks like a pretty promising WR core.

But what you really have here are two potential #1 receivers with checkered attitudes and no long-term financial commitments, combined with a mid-career WR being asked to take a demotion. What happens if Holmes returns in Week 5 and starts taking numbers away from Braylon? Or if Cotchery is unhappy to move into the slot mid-season? Or if Holmes can't crack the starting WR corp when he gets back from suspension but needs to start building his free-agency highlight reel? If the Jets are winning, the NY media will side with management when a player complains -- but if they're struggling, the media will have a field day playing to characters like Edwards or Holmes.

I think a big difference between this crew and past Patriots receiving corps is that Moss is a guy who respects BB at the end of the day, Welker is a team-first guy who knows his role, and a Gaffney/Stallworth/Edleman is happy for an opportunity to take a step forward in their careers (each coming from different directions).

Sanchez doesn't yet have the on-the-field credibility like a Brady or Manning to keep all these guys in line regardless of stats, and Rex Ryan so far hasn't had to deal with one unhappy soldier, much less several. I think this grouping could be a hell of a headache for Sanchez and Ryan.

I thought you were taking your Jets hating goggles off? To understand what you are saying, you would not be ecstatic if it was the Pats who traded a 5th for a 26 yr old very good WR? you cite 2 guys who are going to be malcontents on the team b/c they have 1 yr contracts and the one WR who has a contract will be irked b/c his role may diminish? Your right you do know nothing about Cotchery b/c the guy is the biggest team first, I just want to win personality we have. You want the Jets to offer Holmes financial security now, why? We gave up zip nada for him and by not renewing his deal he knows he has to be on his best behavior or else he is a) killing future earnings and b) may be out of the league if he doesnt clean up his act

 

[20HindSight20]

We gave up zip nada for him and by not renewing his deal he knows he has to be on his best behavior or else he is a) killing future earnings and b) may be out of the league if he doesnt clean up his act

This. Unfortunately.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Since the Steelers claim they contacted all 31 teams about Holmes leaves keeps me wondering is not only did Belichick refuse the Steelers offer but Bill Parcells who also is in dire need of a receiver denied it too as well as Bill Polian who should be looking for a Wayne replacement in the near future .

These are 3 of the greatest minds,not only in today's NFL but in NFL history and all rejected the offer

Was it because of the 4 weeks of suspension,do they think Santonio is just not the right fit for thier team or maybe too much of a troublemaker? or maybe they think he is overated?

Whatever the reason these 3 teams and thier top notch leaders have rejected what we all think would be a valuable addition to any team for such a low draft pick is a mystery.

Do you have a link? Here's a quote from Peter King which I tend to believe. How did they contact 30 other teams in less then 24 hrs?

This happened very suddenly, too sudden for the Steelers to troll the NFL to see if they could make a better deal, which they almost certainly could have done. When I say sudden, I mean Sunday. I hear the first inkling the Jets got of this deal came in a phone call Sunday, and GM Mike Tannenbaum jumped on it.

 

[Joker]

well I'm convinced now...all hail the mighty Jets...42 years straight September Super Bowl Champions

 

[vyrago]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

The Jets are a good team, with a lot of talent, but talent doesn't always win games.

Right. If it did, the Skins would have won at least five Lombardis by now.

 

[Marko]

Do you have a link? Here's a quote from Peter King which I tend to believe. How did they contact 30 other teams in less then 24 hrs?

So, I'm supposed to believe that the Steelers only offered him to one team?
I'm not Donald Trump but this doesn't sound like the way to get the most out of a trade. The only reason you would do this is if you believe you're dealing damaged goods.

 

[K-Ro 25]

So, I'm supposed to believe that the Steelers only offered him to one team?
I'm not Donald Trump but this doesn't sound like the way to get the most out of a trade. The only reason you would do this is if you believe you're dealing damaged goods.

It doesnt have to be extremes, 1 team they offerred to? Heck no but no one will sell me on the fact they achieved 30 teams in one day. The jets found out Saturday night

 

[tanked_as_usual]

It doesnt have to be extremes, 1 team they offerred to? Heck no but no one will sell me on the fact they achieved 30 teams in one day. The jets found out Saturday night

the steelers were going to cut him......the jets jumped in with the 5th rounder

maybe it will work, but the jets are basically a bunch of dominoes.....things start to go bad with these malcontents they have amassed, and things could get really ugly......and its all a waste if sanchez keeps giving the ball away.......

 

[vyrago]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Season starts tomorrow, right?

Best line in this thread by a mile.

 

[K-Ro 25]

the steelers were going to cut him......the jets jumped in with the 5th rounder

maybe it will work, but the jets are basically a bunch of dominoes.....things start to go bad with these malcontents they have amassed, and things could get really ugly......and its all a waste if sanchez keeps giving the ball away.......

I know, every move we make has 0 chance of being successful