OT: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

[Ring 6]

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I believe the Jets gave Edwards a first round tender, as his contract has expired, I do know that Edwards signed the tender.

So Edwards is playing for a new contract.

I would also add that I like Braylon a lot for the skill set he brings to the Jets, a whole lot, and I think the drops are a bit overated.

He doesnt catch any passes.

 

[Aßßynormal]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I've read 10x pages here and have yet to see a single person say this was a bad deal, so the real question is, why all the bashing of "homers" who don't even exist? And why are we following Jets trolls in disguise?

I like hearing the opinions of Jetfans.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I suppose the true question here is whether the success of the franchsie has been based upon

A) A handful of players who are irreplaceable or
B) The philosophy, approach, talent, coaching ablity, structure and stability of the organization
I have always felt it was (B) but it appears you feel it is (A)

Perhaps that is the divide between the 'homers' and the 'Chicken Littles' whether you believe the success is by design or good fortune, which also leads to the second question of whether you feel the Patriots have had sustained 'success' for 10 years, or a 4 year run followed by 5 years of disappointment.

It would seem obvious why the Chicken Littles are what they are if they believe we won 3 in 4 years because we had the best players, and the last 5 years have been failure because there have been no rings, while the the 'homers' apparently see a relatively seamless 10 year run where no matter how good you are winning a SB is defying the odds and cant be expected to happen every year.

Personally, I think it is a little bit of both. The 2001 team and 2003/2004 teams were very different in their player make up and 2007 was even more different. There were a few constant players on all or most of those teams, but overall the team has changed from each period.

That said, there are certain type of players who make up those teams and are crucial to the Pats' success. They need smart players with talent, but they have to be willing to do their role no matter how narrow or unrewarding and put the team ahead of their own stats. Guys like Bruschi, McGinest, Harrison, Law, etc. fit that bill, but those skills are not mutually exclusive to them.

The question now and going forward will be if the Pats have or will get enough of those players.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Whatever the truth, two games is not a big enough sample size to say that the scheme was failing. However it turned out in the following years, in 2001 Kurt Warner was more talented and experienced than Brady, and the Rams had more overall talent. We won because we had a good scheme, AND our players played their butts off in the Super Bowl.

But the question wasnt really limited to gameplanning.
It was whether you attribute the success more the organizaiton or the individual players.
Put another way, is the success of the Patriots more attributable to the job of BB, the coaching staff and the front office being better than the other 31 teams, or having players that were better than the other 31 teams. (Or actually, originally it was whehter it was simply attributable to the lockerroom leadership of some of the players)

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

It wasn't 2 games, Sicilian. There was also 2000 leading up to the switch.....

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying players don't matter, they're equally important. But schemes change season to season as well. I'm not going to hold 2000 against the 2001 team.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Personally, I think it is a little bit of both. The 2001 team and 2003/2004 teams were very different in their player make up and 2007 was even more different. There were a few constant players on all or most of those teams, but overall the team has changed from each period.

That said, there are certain type of players who make up those teams and are crucial to the Pats' success. They need smart players with talent, but they have to be willing to do their role no matter how narrow or unrewarding and put the team ahead of their own stats. Guys like Bruschi, McGinest, Harrison, Law, etc. fit that bill, but those skills are not mutually exclusive to them.

The question now and going forward will be if the Pats have or will get enough of those players.

My opinion is that how the roster is built and what is done with the players that are on the roster (coaching, training, motivation, etc) is what separated the Patriots in the 00s.
I think there is no question that 'smarter' described the dynasty much better than 'more talented'. And I mean smarter as decision making, philosophy, etc and include player intelligence under talent.

 

[Gunnails]

He doesnt catch any passes.

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None?

YouTube - Braylon Edwards 80yd TD Vs the Colts - AFC Championship game

 

[Ring 6]

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None?

YouTube - Braylon Edwards 80yd TD Vs the Colts - AFC Championship game

Not enough to be considered a good WR.
He gave you 3 games with more than 3 receptions and none with more than 5.

 

[Gunnails]

Not enough to be considered a good WR.
He gave you 3 games with more than 3 receptions and none with more than 5.

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Probably just the homer in me, I like the big guy.

 

[Aßßynormal]

The Jets may win the coveted "Jensen Toilet Bowl" off season sweepstakes yet again ........ but they're still going to have "prove it".


I'm not at all convinced that they have a better team ..... or a better OL or even that their secondary will be better than ours in the 2010 coming season. In fact, other than Revis, Harris, Cotchery and Washington (if he's 100% and still there), I'm not overly impressed with their talent.


"Prove It", LOL.

 

[Metaphors]

Lets keep this thread on track.

So do the Jets use Holmes as a #2 or a slot?

Braylon at #1? How would BB use these 3 receivers?

I am thinking move Cotchery to the slot. With 3 WR's sets does one have to play the slot?

Receivers can line up anywhere as long as only 7 players are on the LOS. This is an interesting question though. Sanchez didn't have the arm strength to get too many passes to the outside receivers (reason why Edwards only gets a couple of passes a game). Unless Sanchez got significantly stronger in the off-season, I would keep Keller and Holmes inside the numbers. Let Edwards threaten deep and Cotchery run slants, screens or the Gatorade table.

If the Jets are running a 3-WR set very often, things are probably not going well. Richardson at FB or a 2-TE set gives them a better opportunity for success...rushing and protecting Sanchez. So getting Holmes is more for upgrading Cotchery and spelling "Clang" when he gets the dropsies.

 

[LiveShot]

I think the Steelers wanted him to go to the Jets rather than the Pats, Colts, Dolphins, Ravens, etc. That and a 4 game suspension is why the Jests bailed him out for a 5th. I do believe that the Jests are a better team than the Pats at this time. Don't know WTF the Pats staff has up their sleeve as far a team improvement but they ain't done nuthin yet other than the Wilfork resigning.

 

[Ring 6]

The Jets may win the coveted "Jensen Toilet Bowl" off season sweepstakes yet again ........ but they're still going to have "prove it".


I'm not at all convinced that they have a better team ..... or a better OL or even that their secondary will be better than ours in the 2010 coming season. In fact, other than Revis, Harris, Cotchery and Washington (if he's 100% and still there), I'm not overly impressed with their talent.


"Prove It", LOL.

They are an enigma.
They were an 8-8 team that had a game handed to them, after choking away a bunch of games.
They had the 2nd worst QB in the NFL last year, yet many people will tell you he is a strength because 'he has to get better'.
They ran the ball well, but that may mostly be because they were one of the few OLs in the NFL that got to pound away all game and not play so much on their heels, as has become par for the course.
They played good D, but those stats get bouyed by a ball control offense.

Now they have:
-Replaced one overrated corner with another
-Dumped their #1 RB, handed the job to a 2nd year player who no one knows how we will hold up, and added a shadow of himself backup.
-Added a WR to a WR corps that didnt have a QB that could get the ball to it. I dont know how adding S Holmes to a WR corp helps when the QB could only get the ball to Cotchery 57 times and Edwards 35. Welker alone caught a dozen more passes than every player than lined up at WR for the Jets last year, and Moss also had almost as many.

If the Jets are such an incredible team that we should be so afraid of, why did they lose 6 out of 7 games (4 to teams with losing records) only beating the Raiders in a 2 month stretch? If they are that bad, how did they manage to beat Cincy and SD in the playoffs?

 

[zoostation]

I do believe that the Jests are a better team than the Pats at this time.

If that's the case this will be the first time in over a decade when this has been the case.

Every year the Jet fans have them going to the Superbowl im April and May, and then sinking into reality in November. Until I see otherwise, I think it'll be SOJ (and don't come back with the... they were in the AFC Championship game last year...that was a gift and a fluke).

 

[The_Riddler]

Ah what do you know, BB asleep at the wheel again and out-manuevered by Fat Rexie. This bites, how the eff did this happen ? HOw does the league allow highway robbery steals like this ? And another thing, how stupid is Pitt to deal a guy of that caliber to what will be a fellow conference force and foe now for a long time. How stupid is that ? How do you get a top 10-15 WR for a mere 5th round draft pick ? How in the world did this happen?

BB I hope you're planning on TO or Brandon Marshall or a deal up for Dez Bryant otherwise, get ready to get your freakin arse kicked by the green machine. Stop sleeping BB and the wake the eff up will ya !

 

[Kontradiction]

If that's the case this will be the first time in over a decade when this has been the case.

Every year the Jet fans have them going to the Superbowl im April and May, and then sinking into reality in November. Until I see otherwise, I think it'll be SOJ (and don't come back with the... they were in the AFC Championship game last year...that was a gift and a fluke).

So it was a fluke that they drilled the Bengals two weeks in a row then went on to take out a San Diego team, at home, that hadn't lost in 10 weeks previously?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The Jets a loading up for now because cap hell is just around the corner. Rexie figures he probably has a short shelf life so why not.

 

[WelshPat]

I like what the Jets are doing for them, it makes sense for Ryan. Look at the Giants, Coughlin lost all control of his team at the end of the year, the players quit, yet no-one is calling for him to be fired, and the only reason is because they won the SB in 07.

If they win it all this season, they can have the time to go through a rough patch and no-one will say anything for at least 3 seasons, because he took them to a superbowl win.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The Jets may win the coveted "Jensen Toilet Bowl" off season sweepstakes yet again ........ but they're still going to have "prove it".


I'm not at all convinced that they have a better team ..... or a better OL or even that their secondary will be better than ours in the 2010 coming season. In fact, other than Revis, Harris, Cotchery and Washington (if he's 100% and still there), I'm not overly impressed with their talent.


"Prove It", LOL.

Yah, the Yensen Toilet Bowl. USENET brings back fond memories of the 90s

 

[zoostation]

So it was a fluke that they drilled the Bengals two weeks in a row then went on to take out a San Diego team, at home, that hadn't lost in 10 weeks previously?

Yes and no. The fluke is they only had to beat the Bungles and the Chokers.

Shortly after Sexy wrecksie ruled them out of the playoffs, their last 6 games looked like this.

Atlanta L Matt Ryan doesn't play
Colts w Gift wrapped
Bungles w Bungles being the Bungles/Gift
Bungles w Bungles
Chokers w fire Norv Turner for not kicking off/SD Chokers
Colts L not a chance in hell

You can't possibly be serious about the Bungles and the SD Chokers? It's difficult for me to take those teams seriously.