PostGame Thread OFFICIAL PostGame Thread: Patriots lose the opener to Las Vegas 20-13

[TommyD4207]

PFF is sketchy, but people need to relax regardless. It’s Week 1 with a completely new regime, OL, some new players, system etc..No, it wasn’t great & I’m all for objectivity, but people need to get both their panties & heads out of their assess. Relax.

Question @TommyD4207

On a scale of 0-100, how would you grade Maye’s performance yesterday?

30-35. Better in the first half, but he was sailing checkdowns then too.

It was every bad habit he has throughout the entire game. Missing checkdowns. Hero ball. Breaking the pocket for no reason. Locking onto receivers. Making bad decisions with his legs and his arm.

It's the constant heroball when the situation doesn't call for it, Sometimes it's ok to take a sack. Sometimes it's ok to throw the ball away. Sometimes it's ok to check into a run. A punt is always better than a turnover. A checkdown is always better than an incompletion. That's basic NFL QB ****. That's the frustrating part. You miss tough throws, it happens. You miss easy completions to wide open receivers, it shouldn't ever happen. NFL history is littered with first round busts who didn't do the basic things.

 

[203Pat]

I have always said our fanbase has to be dumber on average.

 

[upstater1]

Here is a solid breakdown of Maye's game. He's very biased against Josh and Vrabel but much of the analysis is good here.

A few plays that I disagree with him on:

+The miss to Henry when Henry stops running in the red zone: um, Henry stopped running, if he didn't he had a good chance to catch it.
-The other bad looking miss to Henry was a throw to the outside shoulder away from the coming safety and Henry looked inside for some reason, he says bad throw but think that one is placed the only place he could go.
-Fumble by Maye where Campbell was beat he blames Campbell but was probably on Rahm, not Campbell. Rham is supposed to chip the end. Knowing this Campbell sets up to protect the inside rush since Rham would chip and prevent the outside rush, Rham barely touched him, almost realizes he messes up and start to chase after the defensive end and then decides, well I might as well get out on my route instead. I added a clip to this play below and see what Rham does, or DOES NOT do.



The conclusion Maye did not play a bad game was the same I had after watching tape. He wasn't perfect and had a few bad throws. Unfortunately, other QB's can get away with that and do every week. Until we get Chism out there and Henderson more involved the lack of playmakers will require Maye to play at a very high level to score points.

Are these armchair analysts really going to sit back and say, this OC doesn't know what he's doing?

I appreciated much of the work here, because it shows Maye did not have the horrible game many people are representing here. He made some really nice throws.

But in this video, the critic is going after a coach at the top of his profession in this fashion, it makes me wonder how narcissistic the critic is. I am definitely not saying coaches should not be criticized for bad decisions or whatever. My posts in this thread are evidence of that. But this goes beyond that and it questions McDaniels' knowledge and awareness, which is absurd coming from an armchair analyst.

 

[Wozzy]

30-35. Better in the first half, but he was sailing checkdowns then too.

This is where people seem to missing the forest for the trees. If Maye was on point in the first half it could have been a blowout, and rushing in the second half would have been an eventuality. It would have been a one sided victory. The Pats lost this game.

 

[PP2]

That's not the entire story. Most of those pressures (e.g, blitzes) came on third downs.

It wasn't addressed from an adjustment POV, so it's unfair to blame it all on Maye.

What's not being talked about in general is how rusty McDaniels is. Yesterday was one of his worse games. Williams didn't fare any better in the 2nd half either, when the Raiders started attacking the 3 safety nickel and he failed to adjust.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What elite skills does he have?
Can he run like Lamar? Does he have elite quickness or agility or elusiveness like LJ?
Does he have an arm and toughness like Josh Allen

Its called the eye test. You have seen him, what skills does he have that would put him in top 5 for qb in nfl??

I have an opinion based on watching his game performances just like you

At a minimum he has an elite arm.

 

[upstater1]

Perhaps I’m giving Jeanty too much credit. But he was fantastic in college and there were a number of folks here who wanted him at #4. He was supposed to be the next big thing.

Bowers, as you mentioned is a star. Meyer is a really good do it all TE.

I think Jakobi is a top 50 WR. All they are really missing is a WR 1.

They aren’t a super football team, but they have good players at the skill positions. Again, I may be giving Jeanty too much credit. He was contained against the Pats. I’m giving them credit rather than saying he’s a bust

I dont think they are very good either, we agree. I think their defense though is pretty good.

Bowers is excellent.

As for Jeanty, he racked up those yards against Mountain West competition. He did look great against Oregon in the first game, but by the end of the year, he ran for 3 yards per against Penn State.

 

[TommyD4207]

Are these armchair analysts really going to sit back and say, this OC doesn't know what he's doing?

I appreciated much of the work here, because it shows Maye did not have the horrible game many people are representing here. He made some really nice throws.

But in this video, the critic is going after a coach at the top of his profession in this fashion, it makes me wonder how narcissistic the critic is. I am definitely not saying coaches should not be criticized for bad decisions or whatever. My posts in this thread are evidence of that. But this goes beyond that and it questions McDaniels' knowledge and awareness, which is absurd coming from an armchair analyst.

It's the difference between fans of the laundry (us), and fans of the players who they talked up leading up to their drafting (critic), and absolutely need to do everything to prove they weren't wrong, so they get more engagement on their posts.

People were on the pregame yesterday STILL pumping Russell Wilson's tires. That dude's been washed for a half-decade. Why? They bought Russell Wilson stock, and heaven forbid they were w-w-wrong.

Watch how long the Ashton Jeanty rumpswabbing will go on for, when he averages less than 4 yards a carry this year. Every excuse in the book will be used.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

He definitely has elite arm talent. Problem is the league has been full of guys with arm cannons that never really put it together.

He has better mobility than what we are used to, but is he really elite on that front? Mahomes, Allen, Jackson are the elites in that category. He was the 9th ranked rushing QB in terms of yards, which is good, but not elite. He was also 16th in terms of rushing TD's for QB's.

To be a QB, you still need it between the ears to work and that's the problem and the hardest one to fix.

Maye is an equal runner to Josh, actually better. He's much faster, but he was put on such a leash running last year it definitely hurt him.
Drake rushed for 1209 yds in 30 NCAA games.
Allen rushed for 767 yds in 27 games.
Drake is every bit the runner Josh is.

 

[upstater1]

Depends on how much confidence the coaches have in him that he can develop.
Lamar and Allen both had unique elite skills, maye does not.

Baker, Darnold and Smith all took multiple teams and over 5 years.
Would the Pats really have 5 years worth of patience for Maye? I do not think so

Baker, Darnold and Smith took many years.

Their teams did not have 5 years patience.

Those teams then subsequently spent multiple first round picks on new QBs (Zach Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson).

And those teams STILL do not have their QB.

 

[Toofy]

I have always said our fanbase has to be dumber on average.

I thought Campbell played solid. I would never assign any blame on the oline. Maye was just staring down receivers and played like $h!t.

I Did not watch first quarter but when I saw from the 2nd quarter till last 4 minutes, he was unwatchable and diggs saved him. The toe tap by diggs was a horrible pass. Diggs had enough separation and maye threw it somewhere outside .

Hawkins played well. Barmore and Williams were good. Henry could not get much separation. Mack hollins and Austin hooper seemed invisible and hollins had a drop on a overthrown ball.

Maye, Rham, hollins, Henry, pop were the key flop stars in yesterday's game in addition to pass defense and probably our deep safeties who allowed 8 20+ yard passes.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Put it this way, if Maye can't light up that dumpster fire of a secondary they're running out there in Miami, we're in big, big trouble.

If he does, it'll be because they're a dumpster fire of a secondary and it won't matter

 

[upstater1]

Oh for heaven's sake. Williams didnt break from his guy until the CB saw Maye was throwing to Henry.

 

[Thelonious]

I think there's also the rust factor, where most of these guys barely played in preseason or didn't at all. That could've been a partial cause of some sloppiness that they should be able to clean up. If the guys don't work to improve it then they probably get replaced.

Yep. I'm not giving up by any means, but it was a disappointing start.

 

[Wozzy]

What elite skills does Drake Maye have? Oh I don’t know, but arm and accuracy aren’t too shabby…



Just silly…

 

[Ring 6]

Naah that's copium. When Williams breaks free, Maye needs to hit his target in the hands at about the 40 yard line. The safety is on his heels going backwards and more than 10 yards away. Maye has elite arm strength to zip it in there. This was simply a missed read. If that ball gets there in stride, KW is gone for a TD.

Williams is running a go. No offense ever calls a go and tells you to throw it after 12 yards. The throw to that route would be about at the 20.
The read is Henry, Henry is open.
Again QBs don’t sit back and look at a still shot of all 5 guys and choose who to throw to. The read the defense and follow progressions. Cover2, Henry is first progression and he is open.

 

[Ring 6]

He definitely has elite arm talent. Problem is the league has been full of guys with arm cannons that never really put it together.

He has better mobility than what we are used to, but is he really elite on that front? Mahomes, Allen, Jackson are the elites in that category. He was the 9th ranked rushing QB in terms of yards, which is good, but not elite. He was also 16th in terms of rushing TD's for QB's.

To be a QB, you still need it between the ears to work and that's the problem and the hardest one to fix.

He was 9th without playing a full season. He was first in YPC

There isn’t a between the ears problem with Maye. Yesterday there was one with his OC

 

[Ring 6]

No the QB's job is to read the defense pre-snap then REACT quickly as the play develops to hit the open man. He failed to do it.

There are broken plays all the time in the NFL, the QB needs to be able to adjust quickly and just hit the open man when the opportunity is there. And that wasn't even a broken play. KW just beat his man and I'm sure Maye knows the routes his receivers are running, he just didn't see it.

The real issue here seems to be that Maye is too busy trying to absorb a new system and not reacting instinctively to take advantage of plays like that.

This is not dumping on Maye or giving up on him. Far from it. This is acknowledging that he left plays on the table and needs to get better. Even Drake Maye himself would admit that if he were interviewed on this topic.

Drake doesn't need his mistakes justified and explained away, he needs to learn from those mistakes and get better. I'm sure Vrabel and his coaching staff will go over plays just like this in the film room and use it as a coaching opportunity.

I really don't get the attitude that a Patriots player or coach has never made a mistake and doesn't need to get better from it. If you don't learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it.

He did EXACTLY what the play called for.
Williams is running a go, the S is in place.
You don’t throw a 12 yard go route.
If Williams was running an in route against Cover 2 he would be the first progression. In this play he simply is not and no QB ever would throw to him at 12 yards.

Williams didn’t beat his man. It was cover2 the corner passed him to the safety. No way in any possible system does this play cal for him to go off script and throw to a go like it’s a slant while ignoring his first progression who gets wide open BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN OF THE PLAY AND COVERAGE.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand how it works, but maybe instead of trashing a player for handing the play properly you could ask some questions and learn

 

[Grogan14]

Nobody can run like Lamar… unfortunately for the Ravens he passes them out of playoff contention every postseason. He’s not a precision passer. We have to have higher expectations for Maye.

Drake Maye can heave a football 80 yards, he can throw straight lasers. Arm strength?

He also isn’t quite as big as Allen but he is pretty close, a lot closer in size than other QB’s. He has a skillset very close to Andrew Luck, he’s probably also a shade faster than Allen. He rushed for 400 yards in 12 starts behind the worst offensive line in the NFL last year. He could more than double that in a full season and with a competent line. He’s a very good runner.

Elite skills he has in spades, they’re just raw and unrefined. And to put this in perspective, the Buffalo Bills fanbase wanted to run Josh Allen out of town by the end of year two…. we’ve played one game in year two and Maye is already much better than Allen was at this point.

Talk about an alarmist overreaction…

Andrew Luck was accurate as hell and a great decision maker, very cerebral. Maye’s skillset is nit close to Luck’s

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Andrew Luck was accurate as hell and a great decision maker, very cerebral. Maye’s skillset is nit close to Luck’s

Here is the only proof you need he has elite skills.
He was seen as raw and inexperienced coming out of college, who needed work.......
But yet he has was drafted #3 overall because he has ELITE SKILLS.