No matter who wins, Saints fans will say it's tainted

[BradyFTW!]

See here:
Did the Rams-Saints refs miss another pass interference on Drew Brees' interception?

Go watch the clip in your link. Thanks to the messed up throw, Johnson had position on Thomas and was better able to make a play on the ball. He was watching and playing the ball, while Thomas was doing neither. I know the simple assumption--and the one Andrew Joseph appears to have made--is that anytime there is contact between a receiver and defender the defender is the guilty party, but by the rules it really doesn't work that way. And since a strictly-by-the-rules hypothetical technicality is all that's being discussed anyway, what the rulebook says is all that really matters. There's a whole section on PI, which you can read here if interested: 2018 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations

Johnson and Thomas are both entitled to exist on the field. As the rule is written, playing the ball (which Johnson clearly was, hence the pick) exempts you from most of the conditions that would normally trigger a PI flag. In fact, it goes on to specifically state that "contact by a player who has gained position on an opponent in an attempt to catch the ball" is permissible and does not constitute PI. There was no interference on that play, but it was much closer to being OPI than DPI.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Go watch the clip in your link. Thanks to the messed up throw, Johnson had position on Thomas and was better able to make a play on the ball. He was watching and playing the ball, while Thomas was doing neither. I know the simple assumption--and the one Andrew Joseph appears to have made--is that anytime there is contact between a receiver and defender the defender is the guilty party, but by the rules it really doesn't work that way. And since a strictly-by-the-rules hypothetical technicality is all that's being discussed anyway, what the rulebook says is all that really matters. There's a whole section on PI, which you can read here if interested: 2018 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations

Johnson and Thomas are both entitled to exist on the field. As the rule is written, playing the ball (which Johnson clearly was, hence the pick) exempts you from most of the conditions that would normally trigger a PI flag. In fact, it goes on to specifically state that "contact by a player who has gained position on an opponent in an attempt to catch the ball" is permissible and does not constitute PI. There was no interference on that play, but it was much closer to being OPI than DPI.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Quest4SevenHomie]

Everyone on this forum SHOULD sympathize with the Saints. How many times were the Patriots screwed because the officials didn't call these erroneous penalties?

Guess what? That could be us in that situation in the Super Bowl and the refs will completely ignore the penalty. Everyone and their mother would lose their shet if this was Edelman being tackled like that on a VITAL play.

 

[Quest4SevenHomie]

Even if the Saints missed opportunities in OT, none of that should matter. Game should've been done at that moment had the officials done their jobs.

Saints would've run the clock down and kicked a FG to win in regulation.

 

[BradyFTW!]

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

In that screenshot, they both have their arms around each other. The only difference is that Johnson is watching the ball and making a play on it, while Thomas is not. At the moment this screenshot was taken, Johnson had already established position to make a play on the ball, and by rule he is absolutely entitled to maintain that position. He is under no obligation to cede that ground to Thomas.

If Johnson wasn't attempting to make a play on the ball, you could argue it's DPI under this portion of the rule: "(e) Cutting off the path of an opponent by making contact with him, without playing the ball". But as you can see, the rule itself makes it very clear that if you're playing the ball it is not an infraction, and this is later spelled out a second time under permissible acts while the ball is in the air: "Contact by a player who has gained position on an opponent in an attempt to catch the ball."

If this exact same scenario played out and their jerseys were swapped, there's simply no way anyone would argue that Johnson was committing OPI. This claim is only coming from the implicit assumption that contact is always the defensive player's 'fault', since it usually is in the course of a normal throw where the ball is being thrown to where it is specifically because the offensive player can make a play on it and the defensive guy can't. But the rulebook is quite clear that offensive and defensive players have the exact same right to positioning and making a play on the ball: "1) When the ball is in the air, eligible offensive and defensive receivers have the same right to the path of the ball and are subject to the same restrictions."

But because Brees was hit and the throw was way off, that was completely reversed in this case, so that whole assumption goes out the window. One guy is making a play on the ball, the other guy isn't, they run into each other. There is absolutely no justification within the rules for calling PI on the guy who's playing the ball, and in fact the rulebook goes the other way and specifically says he is not to be called for PI.

 

[Drewwho]

Yes they got screwed but the Saints won the OT coin toss and they coughed up the ball. So there’s that!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I hate to bring this up, but that Brees interception reminds me of Favre throwing his infamous INT in the 2007 NFCCG....

Honestly, the Saints got so many calls in their favor in the 2009 NFCCG where Brett Favre was hit numerous times after the play was over and nothing was called.

 

[luuked]

Everyone on this forum SHOULD sympathize with the Saints. How many times were the Patriots screwed because the officials didn't call these erroneous penalties?

Guess what? That could be us in that situation in the Super Bowl and the refs will completely ignore the penalty. Everyone and their mother would lose their shet if this was Edelman being tackled like that on a VITAL play.

If it was us and the final sequence goes pass, run, pass you will have more people asking for the head of McDaniels than whining about the call. I guarantee you that.

If they are not complete idiots with their playcalls that play never happens because you run the ****ing football to take time off the clock.

 

[DarrylS]

I signed the Saints petition, as after the Patriots the Saints are my nest bestest team, this wrong needs to be righted..

The Who-Dat Nation is incredible and passionate, if you spend time in NOLA you understand how big it really is and for the game to have turned on this missed no call was devastating to them... there is no excuse for the officiating ineptitude in this game or any NFL game..

After all the rhetoric about "player safety" this is bush league, to ignore a helmet to helmet hit on that big stage just shows that the NFL is all talk and no action.

 

[Caretaker]

I hope they'll get 8M signatures until tomorrow and NFL will quickly prepare for a Sunday kickoff; 01/27/19, 4:00 PM ET

Justice must be done

 

[fourhour]

I hope they'll get 8M signatures until tomorrow and NFL will quickly prepare for a Sunday kickoff; 01/27/19, 4:00 PM ET

Justice must be done

And the Pat's weeks worth of preparing for the Rams may have been for not?

Really?

 

[Hyped]

The fact they are still stuck on that instead of questioning the playcalling on the entire sequence (throw twice ? Really? A ****ing wheel route is the best you can come up with on 3rd down ?) and Bree's INT in OT is laughable.

Exactly.

The Saints had a 1st and 10 on the Rams 13 yard line with 1:58 left following the 2 minute warning. The Rams had 2 time outs left.

Run it against their stacked box...get stopped after a half yard gain. The Rams burn a time out...and have 1 left.

Now it's 2nd and 9 with 1:55 left and the Rams have 1 time out left. Run it again...get 1 yard. Rams burn their final time out.

Now it's 3rd and 8 with 1:50 left and the Rams completely out of time outs. Run it again...pick up 1 yard. Burn the clock 40 seconds.

Now it's 4th and 7 with 1:10 left. Take a delay of game penalty and move the ball back to the 15 yard line for a 32 yard FG.

Kick FG....and then kick off to the 5 yard line area...the Rams return the ball. Tackle them around the 20-25 yard line.

Now the Rams have maybe 59 seconds left to move the ball about 50 yards for a good FG attempt.

 

[SamusAranX]

Every team at some point in this league, will get a screwed over by a game changing bad call, or a lack thereof. It happens, and it sucks, but the Saints fans need to get over it. They won their NFC championship on some highly questionable missed fouls, and how quickly they forget the bad pass interference calls against Joe Haden that gave them a win against the Steelers weeks ago.

There’s no “re-do’s” and mistakes must be lived with.


I will agree officiating sucks right now for the league overall

 

[Quest4SevenHomie]

Exactly.

The Saints had a 1st and 10 on the Rams 13 yard line with 1:58 left following the 2 minute warning. The Rams had 2 time outs left.

Run it against their stacked box...get stopped after a half yard gain. The Rams burn a time out...and have 1 left.

Now it's 2nd and 9 with 1:55 left and the Rams have 1 time out left. Run it again...get 1 yard. Rams burn their final time out.

Now it's 3rd and 8 with 1:50 left and the Rams completely out of time outs. Run it again...pick up 1 yard. Burn the clock 40 seconds.

Now it's 4th and 7 with 1:10 left. Take a delay of game penalty and move the ball back to the 15 yard line for a 32 yard FG.

Kick FG....and then kick off to the 5 yard line area...the Rams return the ball. Tackle them around the 20-25 yard line.

Now the Rams have maybe 59 seconds left to move the ball about 50 yards for a good FG attempt.

That's way too much time left on the clock. They would/could still win the game with that outcome. Their kicker could easily kick it from 65 yards. They don't need to lob up a hail mary to win the game.

The only way the Saints don'tose if they punched that ball into the Rams endzone...which they didn't do.

If it was us and the final sequence goes pass, run, pass you will have more people asking for the head of McDaniels than whining about the call. I guarantee you that.

If they are not complete idiots with their playcalls that play never happens because you run the ****ing football to take time off the clock.

To be honest, McDaniels has a HISTORY of that sorta shetty play calling.

 

[tasmlab]

They did, but practically every team gets screwed at least once per game. You have to throw your tablet and move on.

Ha! didn't know whether to tag as funny or agree, so I went with genius.

 

[luuked]

That's way too much time left on the clock. They would/could still win the game with that outcome. Their kicker could easily kick it from 65 yards. They don't need to lob up a hail mary to win the game.

The only way the Saints don'tose if they punched that ball into the Rams endzone...which they didn't do.



To be honest, McDaniels has a HISTORY of that sorta shetty play calling.

????

The one thing you don't want to do is score a TD because that actually gives the Rams the ball back with time and timeouts. Unless you can engineer it to happen on third down.

You want to burn the clock, kick the FG and that is most likely the game. The guy you are quoting had it absolutely right situationally speaking. Being up 3 with 59 seconds and no TO is a better position than being up 7 with 1:50 and 2 TO.

Also McDaniels doesn't have any history of that. What games exactly have we bungled in terms of time management ? Even the Dolphins game we absolutely nailed. Jesus..

 

[doesntmatter1]

So our superbowl win is going to have an *. Sounds about right lol.

 

[Steve102]

If the Pats win...Saints fans will say the officiating took matters into their hands to stamp out the memory of the Rams and the NFC game controversy, and that it wasn’t a legitimate contest. They’ll be pissed they do this, rather than their irrational idea of replaying the NFC game where it left off.

If the Rams win...Saints fans will be in complete and utter disarray compared to what they are now over a team they had “beat” holding the trophy.

In conclusion, should see plenty of complaining in the future.

I'd like to point out that IF the Pats win, they still get to hoist Lombardi, get rings and drop a banner that first Thursday of the season. No asterisk. No mulligan.

 

[Kdo5]

Yes the Saints got hosed on a no call. Game probably over right there. BUT sometimes ****ty calls and non calls happen.

The Saints had multiple opportunities to overcome it but they failed. They mismanaged the clock at the end and threw a pick. If that team had the mental toughness they should have overcome it.

At a point I stop feeling bad for the Saints. Robey should have taken that ball for a pick six but he was a bone head. The Saints would have caught a break if the refs made the correct call.

 

[patfanken]

They got jobbed on the call. Human nature to feel pissed because it’s their team and thats pretty much it.

We have fans like myself that felt that same feeling when the hold against Ohara wasn’t called in 07 or the Colts gifts in 06. Hell, even the raiders still feel jolted in 01.

Let them have their anger and grief and move on. In a little bit they are the only ones who will care anyway.

The Raiders should have NOTHING to complain about from the "tuck game". There has never been a question on whether the play was called correctly, because it was. The ONLY issue they may have was about whether the rule itself should have existed.

In fact the ONLY reason there was any controversy at all was because the announcer, the analyst, and 98% of the the audience had no freakin' idea what the tuck rule was and how it was supposed to be applied. (and that included myself). It looked like a fumble, but BASED ON THE RULE, it wasn't.

I've always said to Raider fans, complain about the rule, NOT the call. The ref was simply doing his job. Christ it took them close to a decade before they finally DID get rid of it.

The "tuck play" and what happened to the Saints are not even close to being exemplars. Totally apples and oranges.