NFL investigating Saints for placing bounties on players(merged X2)

[ProudestRyno]

I was at the Pats/Saints game in NO Thanksgiving week-end in 09 (we were there from Fri-Tues) and I found the Saints fans to be rabid, yet largely respectful. We were in the Superdome with Pats gear on for the Monday Night game and the Saints just buried the Pats. Their fans were pretty gracious to us the entire time we we were there, including during and after the game. I'm not disputing your experience, but ours was different. Of course, yours was a year after they'd won the SB, so it may very well have changed.

Maybe those were legit fans that you ran into... And the ones I ran into were just a bunch of bandwagoners living in Atlanta...

 

[ProudestRyno]

Using the media as a source in an instance where the devil is in the details was your first mistake. There was for a long time a sticky thread here that explained and debunked many of the misconceptions and misperceptions about the rules on videotaping, but apparently Ian thought we were past needing it since it's no longer there. Perhaps a kind mod could post a link or PM you one so you could read up on a subject the media did a piss poor job of researching due to being caught up in a group think mentality at the time and not since wanting to appear to be NEP homers or apologists...

John Tomase had 2 (count 'em) sources who assured him that there was a tape in existence that was filmed at the Rams walkthrough practice before Super Bowl XXXVI. Only it turns out there never was. 3-4 days ago national mediots who are supposed to be insiders were insisting they had multiple sources who confirmed Peyton Manning was in Miami throwing the ball to Reggie Wayne. Turns out he'd been in NC at Duke all week working with his former OC and some other Colt soon to be FA's. Someone from this site had to correct Greg Bedard the other day for reporting that the franchise tag doesn't count against the cap until a player signs it. Mediots make lousy sources. Half the time they are just regurgitating group speak or think or making up answers as they go because people expect them to have them and they don't want to disappoint their followers... They seldom acknowledge their mistakes because even if they do they realize the damage is already done. Most people tend to believe the first thing they hear and become functionally deaf to factual evidence to the contrary thereafter. Which is why it's often so difficult for the system to find impartial or untainted jurors these days.

Great post.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Using the media as a source in an instance where the devil is in the details was your first mistake. There was for a long time a sticky thread here that explained and debunked many of the misconceptions and misperceptions about the rules on videotaping, but apparently Ian thought we were past needing it since it's no longer there. Perhaps a kind mod could post a link or PM you one so you could read up on a subject the media did a piss poor job of researching due to being caught up in a group think mentality at the time and not since wanting to appear to be NEP homers or apologists...

John Tomase had 2 (count 'em) sources who assured him that there was a tape in existence that was filmed at the Rams walkthrough practice before Super Bowl XXXVI. Only it turns out there never was. 3-4 days ago national mediots who are supposed to be insiders were insisting they had multiple sources who confirmed Peyton Manning was in Miami throwing the ball to Reggie Wayne. Turns out he'd been in NC at Duke all week working with his former OC and some other Colt soon to be FA's. Someone from this site had to correct Greg Bedard the other day for reporting that the franchise tag doesn't count against the cap until a player signs it. Mediots make lousy sources. Half the time they are just regurgitating group speak or think or making up answers as they go because people expect them to have them and they don't want to disappoint their followers... They seldom acknowledge their mistakes because even if they do they realize the damage is already done. Most people tend to believe the first thing they hear and become functionally deaf to factual evidence to the contrary thereafter. Which is why it's often so difficult for the system to find impartial or untainted jurors these days.

Great post.

Seconded. There's only one guy I really ever take too seriously when it comes to beat reporting on the Patriots and it's Mike Reiss.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Breer is now retweeting a bunch of people talking about how much worse what the Patriots did was, of course.

Benedict Breer. Go have a Blueberry Daquiri with Tomase.

 

[OhExaulted1]

quite possibly and most likely is..and I would add that his INACTION since handing down his "punishment " is actually a form of passive agressiveness towards the Patriots ...but that will not deter me from my post on the far right militant fringe of Pats fans that suspect every thing this "commissioner" does is done with calculated intent and premeditation.

Let me say right here and now...I am on the "less then the Patriots were sanctioned" side of the argument...if I'm wrong, so be it...if I'm right, I may not survive the heights of hysteria I most certainly will be perched on...

"Less then the Patriots were sanctionted" when it's between head-hunting and the film room? Seriously? Nobody has ever gotton injured with a VHS tape or CD to my knowledge. And I'm a lefty.

 

[Ring 6]

I know the video of peyton's hit during the Redskin's game's been posted but NLF.com just uploaded the full hit with slow motion.

NFL Videos: Did Redskins cause Manning's neck injury?

Looks like straight headhunting.

What? How is that head hunting?

 

[robbomango]

What? How is that head hunting?

Looked like Daniels nearly took Peyton's head off from my perspective, call it whatever you'd like.

 

[OhExaulted1]

What? How is that head hunting?

Because he got a bonus to go high and do it. Gregg Williams should be banned. If it wasn't head-hunting then how the hell did he loose his helmut?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I was at the Pats/Saints game in NO Thanksgiving week-end in 09 (we were there from Fri-Tues) and I found the Saints fans to be rabid, yet largely respectful. We were in the Superdome with Pats gear on for the Monday Night game and the Saints just buried the Pats. Their fans were pretty gracious to us the entire time we we were there, including during and after the game. I'm not disputing your experience, but ours was different. Of course, yours was a year after they'd won the SB, so it may very well have changed.

I was at that game and had the exact same experience. I went with my parents, both Saints fans, and the week heading up to the game, my dad was being told by people from work that I shouldn't wear any Patriots gear because the fans were ruthless. What I experienced was the exact opposite. I never had any issues during the game. Late in the 2nd half, when the outcome was pretty obvious, I went to get a drink. On my way back to my section, a man on a back row saw my shirt and yelled "Who dat?" I smiled, ducked my head and said, "Y'all dat." He and his wife both laughed, shook my hand, and proceeded to tell me how much respect they had for the Pats. It was the same on the walk back to the hotel. Every smack talking comment ended with that person in some way saying they knew the Pats were a good team and they hoped they could be in my shoes one day. As you say, maybe things have changed since then but I certainly enjoyed the experience in 2009.

 

[Ring 6]

Looked like Daniels nearly took Peyton's head off from my perspective, call it whatever you'd like.

He didn't even hit him in the head. One player hit him low another hit him shoulder high. The combination knocked off his helmet. You can't blame a player for having his arm across the QBs chest when the moementum form another hit drives his head toward that arm.
Head hunting would be deliberately delivering a blow to the head, and thats not what happened.

 

[Ring 6]

Because he got a bonus to go high and do it.

No he didnt. First he contact to the head was consequential, and secondly if there was a bounty in that game it was only for knocking players out, not for hitting the QB legally on a play that would later be brought up as part of the bounty issue when it was really only football.

 

[robbomango]

He didn't even hit him in the head. One player hit him low another hit him shoulder high. The combination knocked off his helmet. You can't blame a player for having his arm across the QBs chest when the moementum form another hit drives his head toward that arm.
Head hunting would be deliberately delivering a blow to the head, and thats not what happened.

Daniels arm was wrapped around Peyton's neck, I didn't see it touch his chest. Commentary "That's the hit right there, Daniel's going up high on him around his neck"

 

[OhExaulted1]

No he didnt. First he contact to the head was consequential, and secondly if there was a bounty in that game it was only for knocking players out, not for hitting the QB legally on a play that would later be brought up as part of the bounty issue when it was really only football.

If you want to defend Gregg Williams, rock on with that. He didn't get hurt buy a Video Tape. I played HS. You rip a guys helmut off it's foul play. I have but I didn't get encouraged or paid for it. I got my ***** chewed for getting a penalty.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Apparently Williams has been summoned to Park Avenue for another sit down with the Commisioner to discuss his tenure's in other organizations whose players have now confirmed that they too participated in a bounty system.

It's also being reported that discipline will be coming down sooner than initially reported because teams need to know the ramification so they can adjust staffing...so it sounds like suspensions will be forthcoming. I just hope they don't overlook his time with the Titans and JAGS, even if their ex players aren't being forthcoming yet. Williams won't be likely to lie if asked because the penalty will just stiffen the more he does.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What? How is that head hunting?

I'd say that while it wasn't a textbook helmet to helmet hit or even a hit to the helmet per se, when Daniels wrapped his arm around Manning's neck above the shoulder and bent him backwards (the torque of which is what forced the helmet off) violates the spirit of the rule. I'd have called it unnecessary roughness and a form of head hunting. I think he came off the field with what is commonly classified as a stinger as a result. You can see him while still on the ground pushing the fingers of his left hand into the area between his chest and his shoulder. They said his arm was numb and tingling after the hit and he initially signaled for Sorgi to start warming.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No he didnt. First he contact to the head was consequential, and secondly if there was a bounty in that game it was only for knocking players out, not for hitting the QB legally on a play that would later be brought up as part of the bounty issue when it was really only football.

The bounties were among many things for any hits, legal or otherwise, that knocked a player out of the game. Manning was forced to take a time out and they had Sorgi warming. And I'm not sure if that hit was legal since his arm was around Mannings neck and his pulling backwards resulted in contact with the facemask that ultimately resulted in the hemet being ripped off. It may not have constituted a penalty then, it likely would now.

 

[Whorod]

The Dan Patrick Show | Official Home

Go here and vote which is worse, Spygate, or Bounty Gate. It's remarkably close right now. Sorry, it would just make me feel better if it ends up being Bounty Gate.

 

[Joker]

The Dan Patrick Show | Official Home

Go here and vote which is worse, Spygate, or Bounty Gate. It's remarkably close right now. Sorry, it would just make me feel better if it ends up being Bounty Gate.

OK...I voted...BUT...I'm not gonna tell you which one I chose...that wouldn't be fair...might influence others to vote the same way...



sarcasm detector registering off the dial.....

 

[OhExaulted1]

OK...I voted...BUT...I'm not gonna tell you which one I chose...that wouldn't be fair...might influence others to vote the same way...



sarcasm detector registering off the dial.....

Intentionally hurt players over the video room. Great vote.

 

[jcdavey]

Thank you for voting!
Patriots' Spygate 48.72%


Saints' bounties 51.28%

way too close, should be 100% for bounties