NFL investigating Saints for placing bounties on players(merged X2)

[MoLewisrocks]

Seconded. There's only one guy I really ever take too seriously when it comes to beat reporting on the Patriots and it's Mike Reiss.

You should check out his Welker reporting then...

Although they all make factual mistakes, Mike has the tag value on Welker at two firsts this AM, and it's only 1.

I take opinion from any of them with a grain of salt. I enjoy hearing what they think the team may do. I have little use for what they think the team should do. Personal opinions are like *******s after all. Mike was falling off a cliff last fall with his BB as GM may need replacing blather that all of the others (who routinely deride him as the 5th Kraft son) pointed to as proof positive Bill was losing it. To his credit though, Mike backed off the ledge or the road to another superbowl and admitted his comments were obviously over reactive. They all tend to evolve over time as their ego overrides their job description. Working in an atmosphere that is so competitive and covering a franchise that is tighter lipped than the CIA, the pressure to take stands and offer "independent" or critical opinions that the team often makes you look foolish in hindsight over wears on them. Bedard had his little hissy moment already with the Welker debate. As a result of the grief he's taken in it's aftermath he is now a little testy, which in time could render him worthless if it begins to color his take. He needs to take a page out of Mike's book and learn to question if you must but don't dig yourself a hole you can't see a way out of and then keep digging deeper in the hope you can one day tunnel your way out. That's the Borges method and it's made former print reporters out of most of the last generation of Boston sports mediots and multi-mediot idiot talking heads out of most of this generation.

 

[Joker]

well...let's see if a little patented Joe Kerr preemptive Jet strike doesn't swing it in the good guys' favor...

Did Rex's former team put out bounties? - Jets Blog - ESPN New York

heh....grab your popcorn...stoke up the fireplace and stock the fridge...this looks like a season long series on HBO

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Kinda avoided commenting too deeply into this so as not to pile on. I so hated that when other fans did that over spygate.

The more I see of this the more disgusting it is. It's BY FAR worse then anything Bill was accused of doing, yet when you read articles like this one.

Gregg Williams' special way of connecting with players may lead to his downfall - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

It's paints Williams as the "misunderstood genius that just got a little carried away" by paying his players to put other players careers at risk. Yet, when spygate went down (and continuing to this day), BB was painted as the Devil's incarnate for not having his camera in the right part of the building.

So infuriating.

 

[Whorod]

Kinda avoided commenting too deeply into this so as not to pile on. I so hated that when other fans did that over spygate.

The more I see of this the more disgusting it is. It's BY FAR worse then anything Bill was accused of doing, yet when you read articles like this one.

Gregg Williams' special way of connecting with players may lead to his downfall - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

It's paints Williams as the "misunderstood genius that just got a little carried away" by paying his players to put other players careers at risk. Yet, when spygate went down (and continuing to this day), BB was painted as the Devil's incarnate for not having his camera in the right part of the building.

So infuriating.

I would never go to a Saints board and pile on. "One of my best friends is from New Orleans" (this is actually true - and not some weak response to 'other' allegations).

 

[OhExaulted1]

way too close, should be 100% for bounties

Thank you JC. Finally a voice of reason. And it comes from SD. I love SD, except when we have play them. They're a pain in the @ss, and that's meant as a compliment.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

well...let's see if a little patented Joe Kerr preemptive Jet strike doesn't swing it in the good guys' favor...

Did Rex's former team put out bounties? - Jets Blog - ESPN New York

heh....grab your popcorn...stoke up the fireplace and stock the fridge...this looks like a season long series on HBO

I wouldn't be shocked. In 2008, idiot Suggs blabbed that he had bounties on Ward, Big Ben and Mendelhall. I don't think he realized what he had said. Plus, Rex is the son of Buddy Ryan-the innovator of bountygate 1.0 (1989)

 

[jcdavey]

Thank you JC. Finally a voice of reason. And it comes from SD. I love SD, except when we have play them. They're a pain in the @ss, and that's meant as a compliment.

hey i understand others hate for sd

we do have alot of fans that just jumped on when they got a little taste of success, alot of fans are kinda raider-ish types, and they have that beautiful weather to offset their generally crappy sports town history

but i mean, any unbiased person should be able to see that bountygate is one of the worst things to happen to the nfl in a long time, it's criminal.

 

[jcdavey]

i remember back in i believe 2008 bart scott was openly talking about wanting to bend reggie bush's ankle the wrong way or something like that

 

[NinjaZX6R]

i remember back in i believe 2008 bart scott was openly talking about wanting to bend reggie bush's ankle the wrong way or something like that

Suggs said that he had a bounty on Ward, Ben and Mendehall. So...

In defense of Suggs, he was stupid and didn't realize what he had said.

 

[jmt57]

For what it's worth Kirk Minihane from WEEI.com has an in-depth comparison of the Saints' bounties and the Pats' filming this morning.

It Is What It Is » Saints actions worse than Spygate

But Spygate didn’t hurt anyone, didn’t attempt to knock players out of a game and possibility into a lifetime of postcareer hell (Ted Johnson as one of hundreds of examples). This is a physical game, of course. No one wants this to be the Pro Bowl for 16 games. And yes, every player knows what he’s walking into when he puts on a uniform. But shouldn’t the rules be enforced? A clean hit that knocks a player out is part of the game. I get that. But this is something else, what the Saints were doing borders on criminal. And they knew all of that and just didn’t care. Turns out that Williams, Payton and Loomis are three gutless morons who are about to cost the Saints (and themselves, actually) some serious money and draft picks.​

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You should check out his Welker reporting then...

Although they all make factual mistakes, Mike has the tag value on Welker at two firsts this AM, and it's only 1.

When did they change it? Highest RFA tender is a 1 now, but I don't remember them changing franchise tags. (Or do you have #s backwards?)

 

[OhExaulted1]

hey i understand others hate for sd

we do have alot of fans that just jumped on when they got a little taste of success, alot of fans are kinda raider-ish types, and they have that beautiful weather to offset their generally crappy sports town history

but i mean, any unbiased person should be able to see that bountygate is one of the worst things to happen to the nfl in a long time, it's criminal.

First of all I disagree about the charge of bandwagoner Chargrer fans. They won the AFL Championship in '63, made a SB in '95 and are always relevent year-in-year-out. They have dedicated fans, unlike LA. Check out PawnStars. Owners a diehard.

Second of all, your point is spot on. "Bountygate" is 1000x worse than "Spygate". Whos career ended with a VHS tape or CD in a film room? I could've given the team game tape from the stands. I've been there on game day. Go for it on a late hit and get away with it and then get a "bonus"????

Time to take out the coaching mafioso. We can take video tape from outer-space for Chrissake. We had to pay, know make it worse for them GOD-ELL. The violation is definatly worse.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think you're dealing with 3 different circumstances here. Most teams have a player run pay for play system. It's against the rules, they know it, but they also know it's common and almost impossible to police and usually harmless even in the cap era because the payments are in the hundreds and not thousands. Football players are by nature risk takers and competition junkies, as are athletes in many sports which is why gambling is such a lure and one reason many millionaire athletes often end up in bankrupcy.

Other teams allow player run bounty systems to exist, and that is wrong and should be punished even if for legal hits. What the league finally lucked into was a coaching run bounty system - the trifecta of violators - that didn't care if the hits were legal or illegal. And one where the coaches and outsiders were allowed to contribute to substantial bounties and where the ownership was informed in 2010 that such a situation seemed to exist and while the evidence at the time didn't substantiate penalties it had better be stopped or it would if further evidence came to light. Which it now has.

I think the mistake made in NO was one of arrogance and a sense of invincibility. The GM and HC and DC thought they had lied their way past serious trouble yet again (drug scandal) and after a wink and a nod it was business as usual with no real incentive to rock the boat (upset Williams defensive karma with players) and end the program. Big mistake. Obviously someone dropped a dime on them - probably to get consideration themselves for some other violation - and this time it led to a paper trail which justified re-opening the investigation, so now they are going to be made an example of not only because they allowed it to exist but because they lied about it and then kept right on doing it.

King fully expects suspensions for all the main players, Williams at least 8 games if not a full season (because of the Buffalo and Washington contentions too), Payton and the GM maybe 4 games, Vilma too because of the $ value and nature of his bounty, and several other players both still with the Saints and a few who have moved on.

 

[Joker]

who hates San Diego??

my ex-gf is still in love with buttercups Lance "Bambi" Alworth...and I used to look forward to watching Air Coryell every Sunday after the Pats usually got slobberknocked into the next dimension...nah, SD is cool...except for the "classy" years...that idiot set SD back 10,000 years with his stone age "I classy...now I smash...ugg..run classy...*pout* *sulk*..."

 

[OhExaulted1]

I think you're dealing with 3 different circumstances here. Most teams have a player run pay for play system. It's against the rules, they know it, but they also know it's common and almost impossible to police and usually harmless even in the cap era because the payments are in the hundreds and not thousands. Football players are by nature risk takers and competition junkies, as are athletes in many sports which is why gambling is such a lure and one reason many millionaire athletes often end up in bankrupcy.

Other teams allow player run bounty systems to exist, and that is wrong and should be punished even if for legal hits. What the league finally lucked into was a coaching run bounty system - the trifecta of violators - that didn't care if the hits were legal or illegal. And one where the coaches and outsiders were allowed to contribute to substantial bounties and where the ownership was informed in 2010 that such a situation seemed to exist and while the evidence at the time didn't substantiate penalties it had better be stopped or it would if further evidence came to light. Which it now has.

I think the mistake made in NO was one of arrogance and a sense of invincibility. The GM and HC and DC thought they had lied their way past serious trouble yet again (drug scandal) and after a wink and a nod it was business as usual with no real incentive to rock the boat (upset Williams defensive karma with players) and end the program. Big mistake. Obviously someone dropped a dime on them - probably to get consideration themselves for some other violation - and this time it led to a paper trail which justified re-opening the investigation, so now they are going to be made an example of not only because they allowed it to exist but because they lied about it and then kept right on doing it.

King fully expects suspensions for all the main players, Williams at least 8 games if not a full season (because of the Buffalo and Washington contentions too), Payton and the GM maybe 4 games, Vilma too because of the $ value and nature of his bounty, and several other players both still with the Saints and a few who have moved on.

The main point I think you are avoiding is the one every NE fan can't (and shouldn't) get over. Goodell didn't drop the hammer on us, he dropped the sledge-hammer. If he takes away our 1st Rd. pick from them and goes light on them, I hope they send Gronk & Wilfork to go track his @ss down.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

When did they change it? Highest RFA tender is a 1 now, but I don't remember them changing franchise tags. (Or do you have #s backwards?)

You're right, I was getting confused over the drop in the high RFA tender. Forgot that the reason no tagged player ever gets signed is because of the 2 firsts. Which actually makes it kind of silly to even use the exclusive as NO just did on Brees. Even for a QB I don't think many teams could entertain forgoing 2 firsts and signing him to a deal NO wouldn't match. And the new 144% rule in year 3 somewhat limits their leverage when calculating based on the exclusive. And I doubt he'd want to go to the one or two teams who might seriously consider it because he's another legacy matters type.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The main point I think you are avoiding is the one every NE fan can't (and shouldn't) get over. Goodell didn't drop the hammer on us, he dropped the sledge-hammer. If he takes away our 1st Rd. pick from them and goes light on them, I hope they send Gronk & Wilfork to go track his @ss down.

Don't be an idiot. He can't take away something they don't own any longer. I agree Goodell over reacted to the video taping violation, but it's time to quit crying over spilt milk. There will be draft picks lost and fines levied and in this instance suspension handed down. And they will put what came before in some better perspective going forward.

 

[nabwong]

The main point I think you are avoiding is the one every NE fan can't (and shouldn't) get over. Goodell didn't drop the hammer on us, he dropped the sledge-hammer. If he takes away our 1st Rd. pick from them and goes light on them, I hope they send Gronk & Wilfork to go track his @ss down.

Nah, Harrison and Suh will do it pro bono.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Bounty-Gate is far worse than Spy-Gate ever was. People forget that teams were allowed to video tape from the pressbox and other areas. Just not from the sideline, as did the Patriots (and other teams). Moreover, Bill Cowhler said it best when he admitted that he used tactics as bad or worse than the Patriots did, and that what the Patriots did didn't help them win. In fact, he said, the Steelers changed their signals every game, so it could not have helped them. With the Saints, it was a systematic approach of increasing your chances to win by injuring opposing players. Careers could be ended. What's worse is this was a complete work-around of the salary cap, ie, "Stay with the Saints, because while team X offered you the same money as us, you can get hundreds or thousands more per game in incentives. If the Commish doesn't come down harder on the Saints than he did the Patriots, he will be outed as a former Jets employee, anti-Patriot fraud for what he did to the Patriots.

 

[Patsrock]

If he takes away our 1st Rd. pick from them and goes light on them, I hope they send Gronk & Wilfork to go track his @ss down.

He is not going to go light on the Saints. He can't take away a draft pick that they do not own.