NEW ARTICLE: Flores Dragging Belichick Further Into His Lawsuit, Burning Yet Another Bridge

[Ring 6]

Just looking at the AFC is Leftwich took the job he was offered and Bowles, Flores, Lewis, Lynn, Joseph, and Culley didn’t get themselves fired, half of the head coaches in the AFC would be black.

That seems to show a lot of opportunity.
The remaining jobs are filled by
Belichick
McDermott
Reid
Vrabel
Reich
Harbaugh
Stefanski in his second year
And the Raiders job that just had a new hire.

 

[venecol]

Just looking at the AFC is Leftwich took the job he was offered and Bowles, Flores, Lewis, Lynn, Joseph, and Culley didn’t get themselves fired, half of the head coaches in the AFC would be black.

That seems to show a lot of opportunity.
The remaining jobs are filled by
Belichick
McDermott
Reid
Vrabel
Reich
Harbaugh
Stefanski in his second year
And the Raiders job that just had a new hire.

Unacceptable.

 

[venecol]

 

[Ring 6]

Unacceptable.

View attachment 40873

It’s a competitive sport, you can’t let someone win.
So now it’s not about opportunity, and you refuse to say what the percentage of the 9.4% if all coaches should have the best job, so what is acceptable?

 

[Joker]

Kim Pegula is an owner...50/50 with her husband...Khan is Indian...that's TWO minority owners. It's also ZERO minority owners that are hiring minority head coaches.

 

[NormZauchin]

In theory, maybe. But the vast majority of NFL coaches played in college, even if not at a high level. Even coaches you don't usually think of as players -- Belichick, McDaniels, Rex Ryan, etc . -- did play on their college football teams. It's a basic sign of taking the sport seriously.

What's more, the higher the level you reach as a player, the greater the chances of becoming an NFL coach, thanks to the experience, exposure and connections gained. The % of coaches who are former NFL players generally runs 20-25%, so wildly far above chance as to be unarguable as a factor.

FWIW, here are the percentages of African-American players at three levels of football.
22% high school
46% major conference college
70% NFL
If you take a weighted average to reflect the higher chances of NFL coaching careers for players at higher levels, you end up with an expected outcome of about 50% African-American coaches. Note this is not a "target" number. It's just what you would expect to naturally happen, all else being equal. The fact that the actual percentage never comes anywhere close to that suggests all else is not equal.

Your unstated premise is that the skills that enable one to play in the NFL are the same as those that are needed to coach in the NFL. It is a premise that is debatable.

 

[FCB02062]

someone will bail out Flores and the league and hire him at the leagues behest. kind of like how the league had Jeff Fisher draft the gay guy. The gay guy was not NFL quality, but it fit their diversity narrative. different circumstances bc Flores has shown he can coach, but he's also shown he's an a s s h o l e who'll publicize private messages to serve himiself.

 

[Ring 6]

Kim Pegula is an owner...50/50 with her husband...Khan is Indian...that's TWO minority owners. It's also ZERO minority owners that are hiring minority head coaches.

Let’s not go there and act as if white people are racist by nature so they won’t hire minorities.
The % of football coaches who are black is 4 times higher in the NFL than in every other football organization. Coordinators are 2 1/2 times higher.
2 more HCs hired (or having done better when hired) would have the black HC % exceed the black % of football coaches.

 

[NE_Zealot]

I think what Bill did is harmless in and of itself. I’m all for any negative attention the league gets about discrimination and sincerely hope the tanking allegations are true as well, eff the Lolphins.

 

[Joker]

Let’s not go there and act as if white people are racist by nature so they won’t hire minorities.
The % of football coaches who are black is 4 times higher in the NFL than in every other football organization. Coordinators are 2 1/2 times higher.
2 more HCs hired (or having done better when hired) would have the black HC % exceed the black % of football coaches.

uh...I think you missed my point. What I was trying to show is the two minority owners in the league, when given the choice to hire AA head coaches, went in the opposite direction. In fact Khan hired a complete narcissist WHITE guy to coach his prized 1st round draft pick. By today's "racist!!!" NFL metric, I'd say that's pretty freaking biased. I mean if "it has to start somewhere!" then why not the TWO minority owners making the minority hiring move? Or is THAT somehow "racist!" too?

 

[lancerman]

someone will bail out Flores and the league and hire him at the leagues behest. kind of like how the league had Jeff Fisher draft the gay guy. The gay guy was not NFL quality, but it fit their diversity narrative. different circumstances bc Flores has shown he can coach, but he's also shown he's an a s s h o l e who'll publicize private messages to serve himiself.

LOL the Texans are about to pick McCown who has coaching credentials of

1. Assistant coach on sons high school team for 1 year.

2. ….

over Flores

 

[amfootball]

LOL the Texans are about to pick McCown who has coaching credentials of

1. Assistant coach on sons high school team for 1 year.

2. ….

over Flores

Flores might have gotten the job if he didn't go scorched earth. We'll never know.

 

[Joker]

Flores will get a HC job when Goondell threatens a franchise with millions in fines and forfeiture of 1st and 2nd round picks if they don't hire him. I'm waiting with rapt anticipation for this watershed event to occur.After all Goody Screwshoes has done it before, multiple times, over things as innocuous as air pressure in a football. It's always anything can happen day when the Goon is in charge.

 

[Ring 6]

uh...I think you missed my point. What I was trying to show is the two minority owners in the league, when given the choice to hire AA head coaches, went in the opposite direction. In fact Khan hired a complete narcissist WHITE guy to coach his prized 1st round draft pick. By today's "racist!!!" NFL metric, I'd say that's pretty freaking biased. I mean if "it has to start somewhere!" then why not the TWO minority owners making the minority hiring move? Or is THAT somehow "racist!" too?

Gotcha. But my point is who gives a crap who the owner is unless you are someone with the warped idea that all white people are racist.


By the way though, this is the problem with thinking everything is determined by race, why would an Asian or Pakistani owner have any different criteria to hire a coach than a white or black one.

 

[lancerman]

Flores might have gotten the job if he didn't go scorched earth. We'll never know.

Sure but McCown getting that job only strengthens the optics for Flores

 

[NormZauchin]

Flores will get a HC job when Goondell threatens a franchise with millions in fines and forfeiture of 1st and 2nd round picks if they don't hire him. I'm waiting with rapt anticipation for this watershed event to occur.After all Goody Screwshoes has done it before, multiple times, over things as innocuous as air pressure in a football. It's always anything can happen day when the Goon is in charge.

If Belichick were to retire within the next year, your scenario would have a good chance of playing out with the Pats.

 

[Joker]

Gotcha. But my point is who gives a crap who the owner is unless you are someone with the warped idea that all white people are racist.


By the way though, this is the problem with thinking everything is determined by race, why would an Asian or Pakistani owner have any different criteria to hire a coach than a white or black one.

well..I think my basic point is the complete boolsheet Goodell just came out with will, in essence , have no effect whatsoever in making anything easier for AA candidates. WTH is the Goon ever going to do, attack owners because they don't listen to him? LOL....this whole Flores tempest is equivalent to today's Pro Bowl game...people will listen but in the end everyone knows it's just window dressing

 

[stinkypete]

Is this a football discussion or a critical race theory protest? Hard to tell around here.

There's a real problem with black coaches being underrepresented and fired prematurely while guys like Kingsbury and McCarthy stay employed. There's also a real problem with a rule that mandates sham interviews and rewards teams with draft picks for hiring guys like David Culley who have no role in their team's future plans. So, you're all right, but you're all wrong too.

Here's a number we can all agree with, 99% of the people on this board are tired of discussions getting hijacked by political grievances.

And Bill's mistaken text is perfectly plausible. I did the same thing ten years ago when I was cheating on my (then) girlfriend with my (now) wife. It worked out ok.

 

[Ring 6]

well..I think my basic point is the complete boolsheet Goodell just came out with will, in essence , have no effect whatsoever in making anything easier for AA candidates. WTH is the Goon ever going to do, attack owners because they don't listen to him? LOL....this whole Flores tempest is equivalent to today's Pro Bowl game...people will listen but in the end everyone knows it's just window dressing

Oh I wasn’t disagreeing with you.
There actually has been a lot of progress made, not because of stupid rules but because more players are choosing to become coaches. That means more new coaches are black because more players are black.
The % of football coaches at all levels that are black is 9.4%.
The % of football coaches in the NFL that are black is 36%. It’s blatantly obvious that this is coming from the NFL hiring players who get hired directly into the nfl ( Mayo, Troy brown, yates, sunsieri come to mind from the patriots staff).
Something like 22% of coordinators are black, 2 1/2 times the % of black football coaches overall. That number grows as the # of coaches grows and they work their way to coordinator jobs.
Over 40% of nfl teams have had minority coaches very recently (33% black).
What sticks out is only 1 kept his job. Once more candidates work their way through the ranks, more will get HC jobs and more will succeed.
Over 20% of HC hires (11/51) were black in the last 10 years. Considering the % of overall black coaches in the league much less all coaching jobs, and coordinator positions during that time, the hires seem at least very representative of the hiring pool. The issue outstanding is thise hires succeeding and keeping those jobs.

 

[Deus Irae]

There's a real problem with black coaches being underrepresented and fired prematurely while guys like Kingsbury and McCarthy stay employed.

See Josh McDaniels, Urban Meyer, Ben McAdoo, and Rod Rust for some examples of why "there's a real problem..." is not a problem at all, in terms of coaches getting fired prematurely.