NEW ARTICLE: Fire Belichick? That One May Complicate Patriots’ Future Even Further

[SammyBlueCat]

Great post. Here is something that many haven't made mention of. What if BB decides he wants to walk away? What if his expiring contract he doesn't want to renew ? I agree BB the "COACH" I don't want to replace. He isn't going to take a lesser role of not having GM duties after he's done them for 23 seasons. So many variables, so much to wonder.

He speaks frequently about doing what is best for the team.
It would be noble of him to admit that he needs help with his offensive personnel.

 

[lancerman]

I really just can't imagine that after 24 seasons, Bill will be okay with taking a step back from team construction. Maybe 10-15 years ago he might have when he had a lot of time left and could recognize "well I have this good thing going, I can bend a little". But he has no incentive now. He isn't staying for another 10 years so why suffer the demotion to be on a bad team and not have the control? He can take the firing and instantly go somewhere that would jump at him until it's time to hang things up. He might even like being either a mercenary hire for a team like the Chargers or even getting a total fresh restart at the very end with a team he loves like the Giants to try to leave an impact there before he retires.

 

[Real fan 02]

He speaks frequently about doing what is best for the team.
It would be noble of him to admit that he needs help with his offensive personnel.

YES! Agree. We know as fans he knows this season is over. So basically the last 2 seasons were wasted. Revamp the O line. Draft some tackles, and stop trying to put a band- aide on a gaping wound.

Matt Groh is supposed to be that help with personnel. The team needs to consider hiring Mike Tannenbaum or Rick spielman as a consultant in the off season. Those guys know how to gather talent.

 

[Ring 6]

I would have picked "don't leave your team bereft of talent do you don't have to go looking in the bargain bin". This doesn't go back to last off season. It's been going on since 2018-19.

Which means you would have also picked “don’t extend the dynasty and got to 4 SBs in 5 years and win 3 of them”

 

[Ring 6]

I really just can't imagine that after 24 seasons, Bill will be okay with taking a step back from team construction. Maybe 10-15 years ago he might have when he had a lot of time left and could recognize "well I have this good thing going, I can bend a little". But he has no incentive now. He isn't staying for another 10 years so why suffer the demotion to be on a bad team and not have the control? He can take the firing and instantly go somewhere that would jump at him until it's time to hang things up. He might even like being either a mercenary hire for a team like the Chargers or even getting a total fresh restart at the very end with a team he loves like the Giants to try to leave an impact there before he retires.

It won’t be a demotion, it will be expanding the staff. Belichick roots his approach in self scouting. He reassesses everything and changes what he sees needs to be changed. During the dynasty he reduced staff, front office and coaching and it accomplished what he wanted. He learned last year that it’s not true that a good coach can coach anything. He expanded and will continue to expand the coaching staff, and will likely do the same in the front office and delegate more. He needs to narrow his focus, delegate more, and build out a structure that will start the next dynasty.
Or he just may be ready to retire.

 

[upstater1]

Who do they have on offense? You asked me to list the busts, you list the talent on offense.

Talking in circles here. I've already done that work.

But it has nothing to do with the conversation .

We're talking about the moves Belichick should have made. In hindsight of course.

That's the point of the discussion

 

[archstanton543]

Talking in circles here. I've already done that work.

But it has nothing to do with the conversation .

We're talking about the moves Belichick should have made. In hindsight of course.

That's the point of the discussion

Yeah okay. So you won't answer my request. Got it.

 

[Water Boy]

I appreciate BBs efforts in New England, but it’s time.

 

[upstater1]

Yeah okay. So you won't answer my request. Got it.

Already answered but it's totally off topic.

I'm asking YOU to be specific about the players he should've gotten. Naming the players he DID get doesn't tell us anything about the players he SHOULD'VE gotten.

 

[Rob0729]

As I wrote, no one is going to want to come here if Belichick is fired and the quarterback is dealt, not without grossly overpaying them. That will last at least a couple of years until it reaches a point where players are comfortable with this team being a destination where they can be confident with both the team and their potential success. With Belichick still as coach, you can deal the QB and still have free agents who he can sit across from him and feel good about coming here, provided they have a reasonable plan moving forward.

The best path forward might be a compromise where Belichick stays, and someone is put in charge of selecting offensive players, with Belichick still having the final say among defensive selections.

I feel like most people here don't have an issue with Belichick's coaching, it's more about the team he's constructed, especially on offense. Obviously, those feelings are justified. So, having already started making some compromises, it makes sense for Bill to make one on the offensive side and trust whoever is making those decisions.

But firing him is going to be a major setback because we're going to be even further down the list than we already are, and despite the terrific amount of cap space, it won't matter if the people they try and spend it on decline to come here unless the Patriots outbid everybody. Then, that just creates a different problem that will make it tough to be competitive.

So if Bill will at least be flexible, if they can figure it out, there's continuity without the chaos and it's a smoother transition.

Do you really think Belichick is still a draw with many players? Most players don't want a hard ass coach. They would rather have a player coach. When Belichick was constantly winning, players would want to play for him because he wins. Now he is just a hard ass who threw his QB under the bus, benched arguably his best WR in a game to the detriment to the team because he fumbled the ball and really wasn't his fault, etc. The Belichick prestige is no longer there.

Say the Pats get Ben Johnson. Players will look at what he did for Jared Goff and the players around him and say "Hey this guy could turn me into a superstar". I bet Lions players would follow him here when they become free agents.

Whoever the Patriots would get to replace Belichick would have a reputation with players around the league. Players who played for him would likely want to follow him and players who played against him would likely want to play for him if Kraft gets the right guy. It is conceivable that the coach that Kraft gets to replace Belichick could have a better reputation around the league with players than Belichick right now.

Personally, I have a problem with Belichick the coach right now. This is not a well coached team. Players are making stupid mistakes. You look at the technique on the offensive side of the ball and it is piss poor. Linemen aren't blocking correctly. Receivers are running bad routes. The QB is throwing off his back foot too much. And Belichick's in game decisions are questionable.

Right now is the best time to move on from Belichick. The Pats are going to be flush with cap space and high draft picks. They should be building for the future and getting the players that will fit the mold of the future. Even if you keep Belichick for another year or two, he isn't the future. Why build a team to fit his system only to move on from him in 2025 or 2026?

 

[Ian]

Do you really think Belichick is still a draw with many players? Most players don't want a hard ass coach. They would rather have a player coach. When Belichick was constantly winning, players would want to play for him because he wins. Now he is just a hard ass who threw his QB under the bus, benched arguably his best WR in a game to the detriment to the team because he fumbled the ball and really wasn't his fault, etc. The Belichick prestige is no longer there.

I do. Again, not necessarily "a draw" per se, but I think it matters when players visit. Sitting across from him and talking football has been something quite a few players have commented on, and he's been a guy who has sold several on coming here. Without that, or the clout he carries, even if we as fans might be critical, I think makes things challenging.

As I also said in another post, the challenge I think they might have with Mayo is he has no real weight outside of the Patriots. You look at any other coach in the league, they all came from somewhere and worked with other guys, so there's that sort of networking that exists when it comes to player relationships and endorsements that those guys would garner that Mayo wouldn't.

The thing that also complicates the situation is you usually have either a coach or a QB who can be sold to players, especially top-flight receivers, during free agency. Those guys generally also want to be productive with whoever they sign with, so they can put up numbers and put themselves in a position for the future to get their next contract. We're in a situation where they may not have either (coach or QB) after this season. Without Belichick and with an unknown (or another rookie) QB, that absolutely hurts their chances. Unless they're willing to overpay, which even with Bill gone, probably won't change.

If that happens, it just leaves them where no amount of cap space is quickly going to fix this. And as we all know, building a young nucleus on that side of the ball is going to take years, which likely means a few more seasons of this. Which obviously is going to be tougher than people probably think for all of us to live through.

 

[Rob0729]

I do. Again, not necessarily "a draw" per se, but I think it matters when players visit. Sitting across from him and talking football has been something quite a few players have commented on, and he's been a guy who has sold several on coming here. Without that, or the clout he carries, even if we as fans might be critical, I think makes things challenging.

As I also said in another post, the challenge I think they might have with Mayo is he has no real weight outside of the Patriots. You look at any other coach in the league, they all came from somewhere and worked with other guys, so there's that sort of networking that exists when it comes to player relationships and endorsements that those guys would garner that Mayo wouldn't.

The thing that also complicates the situation is you usually have either a coach or a QB who can be sold to players, especially top-flight receivers, during free agency. Those guys generally also want to be productive with whoever they sign with, so they can put up numbers and put themselves in a position for the future to get their next contract. We're in a situation where they may not have either (coach or QB) after this season. Without Belichick and with an unknown (or another rookie) QB, that absolutely hurts their chances. Unless they're willing to overpay, which even with Bill gone, probably won't change.

If that happens, it just leaves them where no amount of cap space is quickly going to fix this. And as we all know, building a young nucleus on that side of the ball is going to take years, which likely means a few more seasons of this. Which obviously is going to be tougher than people probably think for all of us to live through.

I don't want Mayo to be the coach. I fear he will be. Maybe Kraft will realize that this team needs an offensive minded head coach and not give Mayo the gig.

One thing I worry about keeping Belichick is he looks to be losing the team. What does he do with the players under contract next year that he has lost? He was lucky enough after 2009 that the malcontents were cutable. This year, he could lose most of the players. What is going to do? Turnover the whole roster? If he loses a player, it is unlikely he is ever going to get him back. One or the other has to go. In 2009, it was a small handful of players that they needed to get rid of. What if it half the roster for 2024?

I don't think a new head coach and QB is as big of an issue as you think. With or without Belichick, this is not going to be a place where players are going to want to be at other other places. That is the facts of a bad team. No one is going to come here for less. If a receiver gets the same offers from the Pats and KC, he is most likely going to KC whether or not Belichick is here. I don't see Belichick making a difference. This is a bad team with or without him and money is going to talk. You cannot say come to the Patriots because Belichick is going to give you a shot at a ring anymore.

I think you get a young coach who can sell how going to rebuild the Patriots into a contender again may carry more weight than Belichick and him resting on his six rings and the trainwreck he turned the Patriots into.

 

[Ian]

I don't think a new head coach and QB is as big of an issue as you think. With or without Belichick, this is not going to be a place where players are going to want to be at other other places. That is the facts of a bad team. No one is going to come here for less. If a receiver gets the same offers from the Pats and KC, he is most likely going to KC whether or not Belichick is here. I don't see Belichick making a difference. This is a bad team with or without him and money is going to talk. You cannot say come to the Patriots because Belichick is going to give you a shot at a ring anymore.

My point is without Belichick that chance goes from extremely low to probably 0%. Again, I'm not saying he's someone people would flock to play for, but I feel like they'd at least have a chance. if he was here. As I said, you put him across from players and those conversations do tend to have some meaning/weight.

My point is there are many who believe they'll be fine and they have the money to improve relatively quickly, but I don't think that's going to happen as fast as many seem to believe if he's fired. You can usually weather a coach being let go if you also have a QB. They may not even have their current one by the time the season ends.

My concern is they're going to both let Bill go and move Mac, which leaves them with neither, and then not even be able to bring any skill position players or top experienced O-Line prospects to help them save for the draft. And that's going to be an extremely rough spot for them to be in. It will also create a long road for all of us.

 

[SVN]

Do you really think Belichick is still a draw with many players? Most players don't want a hard ass coach. They would rather have a player coach. When Belichick was constantly winning, players would want to play for him because he wins. Now he is just a hard ass who threw his QB under the bus, benched arguably his best WR in a game to the detriment to the team because he fumbled the ball and really wasn't his fault, etc. The Belichick prestige is no longer there.

Say the Pats get Ben Johnson. Players will look at what he did for Jared Goff and the players around him and say "Hey this guy could turn me into a superstar". I bet Lions players would follow him here when they become free agents.

Whoever the Patriots would get to replace Belichick would have a reputation with players around the league. Players who played for him would likely want to follow him and players who played against him would likely want to play for him if Kraft gets the right guy. It is conceivable that the coach that Kraft gets to replace Belichick could have a better reputation around the league with players than Belichick right now.

Personally, I have a problem with Belichick the coach right now. This is not a well coached team. Players are making stupid mistakes. You look at the technique on the offensive side of the ball and it is piss poor. Linemen aren't blocking correctly. Receivers are running bad routes. The QB is throwing off his back foot too much. And Belichick's in game decisions are questionable.

Right now is the best time to move on from Belichick. The Pats are going to be flush with cap space and high draft picks. They should be building for the future and getting the players that will fit the mold of the future. Even if you keep Belichick for another year or two, he isn't the future. Why build a team to fit his system only to move on from him in 2025 or 2026?

I think he is a great coach. Maybe stale to the new kids here . Look at what McCourty said- every team which lost its great QB has tanked and not recovered yet. Denver after manning . colts after manning was out, saints with payton. BB didnt go 3-13 after brady.
His misfire is not having the right leadership in the lockerroom who can take the mantel from the past. As far as offense goes, he has been ahead of the curve, His misfire has been no one internally has come up the ranks to handle the offense and woever was there left. Hence the situation from last yr and this yr.
He doesnt have system on offense. he tries to adapt , as difficult as it sounds to believe. He tried to move to the SF style offense last yr. He had the wrong coaches or the wrong QB who couldnt accept the coaching and and try hard enough tand instead kept whining and complaining to coaches outside the building. That is where his luck with his ideas ran out.
I am a firm believer that BB probably wanted mac traded. He probably had other ideas on the offense coord this yr too. But its kraft who has picked them made announcements and such.

 

[Rob0729]

My point is without Belichick that chance goes from extremely low to probably 0%. Again, I'm not saying he's someone people would flock to play for, but I feel like they'd at least have a chance. if he was here. As I said, you put him across from players and those conversations do tend to have some meaning/weight.

My point is there are many who believe they'll be fine and they have the money to improve relatively quickly, but I don't think that's going to happen as fast as many seem to believe if he's fired. You can usually weather a coach being let go if you also have a QB. They may not even have their current one by the time the season ends.

My concern is they're going to both let Bill go and move Mac, which leaves them with neither, and then not even be able to bring any skill position players or top experienced O-Line prospects to help them save for the draft. And that's going to be an extremely rough spot for them to be in. It will also create a long road for all of us.

Unfortunately we have officially hit the unknown. The Pats could turn it around quickly or we could be in for a draught that rivaled the Bills or the currently the Jets. But that is inevitable whether the Pats part ways with Belichick now or in two years. The next few years are likely to be ugly no matter who is the head coach. Even if they draft a QB in the draft this year that become a HOFer.

I just think this is the perfect time to move on. The Pats are going to have to totally rebuild the roster with or without Belichick. Why build a team for Belichick only to give it to someone else in 1-3 years? Hopefully Kraft will invest to get a top flight GM and head coach so the transition is less painful than it can be.

I am fully prepared for the Patriots to suck for at least through 2025. They have too much rebuilding for this team to return to glory overnight no matter who is the head coach. I personally would rather risk it with a whole new front office and coaching staff than getting a new GM picking players to fit Belichick's system of a great defense and just an efficient offense.

 

[Vindicate]

Completely agree 100%, Mac absolutely is not - but without Bill, especially since they don't a viable QB, there's zero reason for a quality wideout to pick here over elsewhere. At least with Bill, he can sit across from you and convince you to come here.

Bill still matters. You might not think so because of the state of the team, but his influence is significant and he's obviously established relationships with various players who obviously - Asante Samuel aside - speak highly of him.

And it wouldn't be a half measure. Bill is still on top of his X's and O's, they just lack offensive talent. He brought in Bill O'Brien and loosened the reigns there, so it may make sense to compromise personnel-wise by potentially ceding offensive players to someone else. Obviously, it could be discussed with him, but someone else would have final say there.

I'd also contend that as long as BB runs the defense, there is a big draw for CB's and other defensive personnel, as often times, those players look their absolute best under Belichick. Think of all the defensive players that got massive contracts coming out of here. And quite a bit of them end up "underperforming" at their next stop. That big payday is a reason to come here - you have a high chance of getting it once you're coached up by our squad.

 

[Rob0729]

I think he is a great coach. Maybe stale to the new kids here . Look at what McCourty said- every team which lost its great QB has tanked and not recovered yet. Denver after manning . colts after manning was out, saints with payton. BB didnt go 3-13 after brady.
His misfire is not having the right leadership in the lockerroom who can take the mantel from the past. As far as offense goes, he has been ahead of the curve, His misfire has been no one internally has come up the ranks to handle the offense and woever was there left. Hence the situation from last yr and this yr.
He doesnt have system on offense. he tries to adapt , as difficult as it sounds to believe. He tried to move to the SF style offense last yr. He had the wrong coaches or the wrong QB who couldnt accept the coaching and and try hard enough tand instead kept whining and complaining to coaches outside the building. That is where his luck with his ideas ran out.
I am a firm believer that BB probably wanted mac traded. He probably had other ideas on the offense coord this yr too. But its kraft who has picked them made announcements and such.

Belichick does have a system of offense. They were forced to change systems last year reportedly because Patricia and Judge had problems understanding the offense. But they had players who were not suited for that offense because he built it for the traditional Perkins/Erhardt offense he ran for decades with modifications.

And if Belichick lost faith in Jones, it is on his for surrounding Jones with crap. If he was stuck with Mac and never believed he could run the offense, he needed to put a talented cast around him to hide his deficiencies as much as possible. Belichick did the opposite way. Yes, that speaks to his GM role more than his head coach role, but as a head coach he would speak up to a GM if the GM was not giving him the proper talent.

I am sorry, but whether Belichick wanted Mac traded or not, he totally let the team down. And his players are not even executing the fundamentals on offense which is on his coaching staff. This team is a mess and it goes beyond the talent.